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Old 11-04-2008, 03:09 PM   #1
realist
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Exclamation Discerning Alien Disinformation

This will be my last posting here,

If anybody is interested to read this:

http://montalk.net/alien/145/discern...rmation-part-1
http://montalk.net/alien/146/discern...rmation-part-2
http://montalk.net/alien/147/discern...rmation-part-3
http://montalk.net/alien/148/discern...rmation-part-4

From my point of view people here (that includes Bill and Kerry) are far too gullible. It costs too much energy to separate the wheat from the chaff that is posted here. Many of the Project Camelot whistleblowers are scam artists and/or (knowingly or not) disinfo agents. Time is too precious to waste it.

Good bye !
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:17 PM   #2
Heretic
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

already read this

and the conclusion that this leaves you with is that nothing...

none of it, is real

it debunks every source or type of information out there and anyone who doesn't get their news from CNN is a fool

it has no positive information at all, it debunks everything and doesn't do a thing to help you figure out the truth from the lies because it paints it ALL as lies

it is as if someone studied every bit of alien conspiracy and then wrote an essay on how none of it could be real as it does not talk at all on what to believe, only what NOT to believe

So I disagree, this isn't a lesson in discernment, this is a lesson in being close minded

I found it poor and unbalanced and does nothing but create doubt

and it is no wonder you feel that everyone is a fool

yet....I always accept the fact that I could be wrong as well as the fact that others might find this info useful because truth is subjective
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Old 11-04-2008, 06:17 PM   #3
BeaTnik-BandiT
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Unhappy Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by realist View Post
This will be my last posting here,

If anybody is interested to read this:

http://montalk.net/alien/145/discern...rmation-part-1
http://montalk.net/alien/146/discern...rmation-part-2
http://montalk.net/alien/147/discern...rmation-part-3
http://montalk.net/alien/148/discern...rmation-part-4

From my point of view people here (that includes Bill and Kerry) are far too gullible. It costs too much energy to separate the wheat from the chaff that is posted here. Many of the Project Camelot whistleblowers are scam artists and/or (knowingly or not) disinfo agents. Time is too precious to waste it.

Good bye !
It's one of those useful posts that are going down the river, unnoticed...sad.

--- People SHOULD take a look at the above links = VERY GOOD info. ----

salute.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:10 PM   #4
whitecrow
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

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Originally Posted by BeaTnik-BandiT View Post
--- People SHOULD take a look at the above links = VERY GOOD info. ----
I admit I didn't read all of it. To me it seemed filled with unproven assertions and illogical conclusions from the first sentences. I found the tone negative and I was turned off from the first.

The very first sentence states that in less than ten years we will meet the aliens. Nobody knows this. It could be true or it could not be true, but the fact is that for all the intriguing evidence there is no proof anywhere that they actually exist. Therefore I think that to spend much time listening to people talk about them is absurd.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:15 PM   #5
PiriusTarthis
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
it debunks every source or type of information out there and anyone who doesn't get their news from CNN is a fool

it has no positive information at all, it debunks everything and doesn't do a thing to help you figure out the truth from the lies because it paints it ALL as lies
The article did say "These same avenues can also be outlets for truth, so my aim is not to universally discredit these sources, but rather point out their potential shortcomings." Much better to discern sources on an individual basis than believing or rejecting them all completely. I know it's more work, but that is what the article advocates. There are still a couple more parts to go, so maybe the article will finish up with the positive side of things.

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Originally Posted by whitecrow View Post
The very first sentence states that in less than ten years we will meet the aliens. Nobody knows this. It could be true or it could not be true, but the fact is that for all the intriguing evidence there is no proof anywhere that they actually exist. Therefore I think that to spend much time listening to people talk about them is absurd.
Well, this demonstrates a common problem, that people can't even begin to understand alien motivations if they don't even believe aliens exist. That wouldn't be an issue if they were abductees or had done enough research to know that aliens do exist. The truth is out there

Last edited by PiriusTarthis; 11-04-2008 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

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Originally Posted by PiriusTarthis View Post
You missed the part where it says, "These same avenues can also be outlets for truth, so my aim is not to universally discredit these sources, but rather point out their potential shortcomings." Makes it seem like you prefer either believing all these sources completely, or rejecting them all completely, without wanting to discern them on an individual basis.
well I didn't miss it really and that is a positive message and there ARE more because if there weren't this site would be a dead giveaway. I had read this website a week or so ago. Now I admit I was a bit harsh in my post and perhaps I reacted way too negatively but I was reading this website I was just astounded at the subtle language manipulation being used. Sometimes I do it too when I am talking against something I disagree with.

Don't get me wrong he doesn't come out and attack anything overtly. You can simply tell by the language he uses that he is firmly a non believer and was not very balanced at all. I am not saying this site is "for sure" designed to lead you down a wrong path because I dont believe in wrong paths, but I did want to post a warning that I felt should be made. His methods could be unintentional or a deliberate subtleness in his choice of words that steer the mind towards a mindset. It alarmed me is all.

To see my point on this go and read every "Strength of Vector" and "Strength of Source" (the only two positive potentials) alone without reading any of the other stuff and you will see a bias towards unbelievability. And these are supposed to be the positive "strengths".

it is no surprise that realist posted these links as an accompaniment to his statement: "From my point of view people here (that includes Bill and Kerry) are far too gullible." To me these links he gave were meant to be supportive of this statement and that should tell you something of the material in a Freudian way at least.

The worst part of it was "Deciphering the Core Deception", this is where most of the (my own perceived) manipulation occurred. Example:
Quote:
Greys and Nordics are two evolutionary offshoots of the human race, having time traveled here from the future. Nordics are highly spiritual, most Greys are friendly, while a small rogue faction of Greys is negative. Government is acting entirely on its own, not under any control or direction by aliens, just some treaties with them. Reports of Reptilians or Mantids are likely misperceptions on the part of abductees when they see certain pathologically disfigured Greys.
Now I only know of one person who has presented this theory and that is Dan Burish. Lets look at what he writes concerning this "deception"

Quote:
That last part is a baseless rationalization considering the level of detail involved in the abductee depictions of Reptilians and Mantids, showing them as fully distinct from Greys and healthy in their own right. This scenario goes further than others by saying that Greys and Nordics are not only benevolent but our own descendants. The anthropomorphic makeover of cybernetic Greys is a consistent part of the disinformation, and portraying them as benevolent future humans is an extreme example of that.

More importantly, the crux of the deception here is the claim that all Nordics are highly positive beings from the future. If this were taken as gospel, then any and every Nordic alien group that presents itself to the world would be hailed as our benefactors, even if they happen to be cloned Nordics used as puppets by negative alien factions, negative Nordic overlords, or aryan members of an underground civilization looking to migrate to the surface.
correct me if I am wrong here but did he just single Burish out and call him a disinformer? And you know...maybe he is, but I do not call this a lesson on discernment. Smells more like an agenda to me.

I dunno...I know I could be wrong, but call it a gut instinct
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

The problem here is that we are attemting to feel secure in our world. The leaders of the world started out not telling us anything to keep us at peace. As long as our world made sence and the troubles that we face are knowable we are content and happy people.

The moment we know that the whole universe is at our door step and anything could land here and take away our peace of mind, all the towns people would march in the streets and jump off buildings and cats and dogs would live together and you get the idea.

Here is the new problem, most of us know that something is out there and visiting us and now the unknowen is making us nervouse. People tend to hate the unknowen, and fear it... We see it here everyday, the earth is going to suck us all in and swallow us up, or George is going to bomb everyone into a nuclear winter or something else.

The truth is until "we the PEOPLE" take control of our Gov. and come clean with all the dirty little secrets and put into place safeguards to keep us feeling safe, this will go on and on. We need to know that we are part of a community that will keep us free and safe to live and explore who we are and what that means.
We all know that something has been kept from us for a long time and we must know what it is, I mean a full accounting of every event and the lies surrounding it. Until this happens The people will be on edge and think up all sorts of things.

Be at peace
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:33 PM   #8
PiriusTarthis
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by samncheese View Post
We all know that something has been kept from us for a long time and we must know what it is, I mean a full accounting of every event and the lies surrounding it. Until this happens The people will be on edge and think up all sorts of things.
Good point, we do need full disclosure. On the other hand, I wonder whether people will be able to handle it. I mean, if the truth were simply "Yes aliens exist, and they are here to help us" then okay not bad, humanity could handle that I'm sure. But what if some secrets are so deep and disturbing that it could make you throw up? How would a whole planet react to that?

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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
Don't get me wrong he doesn't come out and attack anything overtly. You can simply tell by the language he uses that he is firmly a non believer and was not very balanced at all. I am not saying this site is "for sure" designed to lead you down a wrong path because I dont believe in wrong paths, but I did want to post a warning that I felt should be made. His methods could be unintentional or a deliberate subtleness in his choice of words that steer the mind towards a mindset. It alarmed me is all.
I see, the article's approaching this whole thing from a certain angle (that an alien deception agenda exists) and so I would expect that angle to influence the wording. Like it wouldn't be using the term "visitors" to describe aliens since according to the article, the main ones mentioned aren't just visiting.

As for being a firm non believer, the article does give list of recommended sources:

Quote:
UFOs and the National Security State – Richard Dolan
Gods of Eden – William Bramley
Atlantis, Alien Visitation, and Genetic Manipulation – Michael Tsarion
The Mothman Prophecies – John Keel
The Blue Planet Project – Anonymous
Extraterrestrial Friends and Foes – George C. Andrews
The Allies of Humanity, Book 1 and 2 – Marshall Vian Summers

Secret Life – David Jacobs
The Threat – David Jacobs
Into the Fringe – Karla Turner
Taken – Karla Turner
Masquerade of Angels – Karla Turner
Chasing Phantoms – Carissa Conti
The Love Bite – Eve Lorgen
Alien Jigsaw – Katharina Wilson
Silent Invasion – Ellen Crystal
Milab Operations – James Bartley
My Experiences (Grey, Pleiadeans and Oddities) – fore

Secret of the Saucers – Orfeo Angelucci
Son of the Sun – Orfeo Angelucci
Far Journeys – Robert Monroe
Infinite Love is the Only Truth – David Icke
Bringers of the Dawn – Barbara Marciniak
Handbook for the New Paradigm – George Green
Revelations of Awareness newsletters
The Cassiopaean Transcripts – LKJ
The Wave Series – LKJ
The Law of One (Ra Material) Books 1 through 4 – L/L Research

God’s Gladiators – Stuart Wilde
Dear God What is Happening to Us – Lynne Grabhorn
The Case for the UFO Varo Edition – Morris Jessup
CEVI – Dr William Baldwin
Phil Schneider lectures
Alien Digest – Ronald Rummel aka Creston
The Dulce Papers/Book – Branton
Matrix I, II, IIIv1, IV – Leading Edge Research
Leading Edge Research Journals – Leading Edge Research
The Thunderbird Chronicles – Michael Topper
Top Secret / Demon – The Nexus Seven
The 33 Arks of Soul Resonance Investment Futures – The Nexus Seven

The Stellar Man – John Baines
Cracks in the Great Wall – Charles Upton
The Incarnation of Ahriman – Rudolf Steiner
Cosmic Pulse of Life – Trevor James Constable
There I see recommended everything from academic works to channeled material, insiders, contactees, UFO researchers, alien and military abductees, and even some mystics. That's not a non believer, or else it would only be recommending scientific journals or what not. What the article is saying is that some of these same kinds of avenues can be used for disinformation and how that might happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
it is no surprise that realist posted these links as an accompaniment to his statement: "From my point of view people here (that includes Bill and Kerry) are far too gullible." To me these links he gave were meant to be supportive of this statement and that should tell you something of the material in a Freudian way at least.
Unless the author himself posted those links, that would be a false association. Everyone's got their own opinion/perspective and Realist must have felt felt the article made points that reflected his perceived issues with what Bill and Kerry are doing, even though the article itself never even mentioned Bill and Kerry. So I wouldn't blame the article for Realist associating his views with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
correct me if I am wrong here but did he just single Burish out and call him a disinformer? And you know...maybe he is, but I do not call this a lesson on discernment. Smells more like an agenda to me.
Hmm, probably from the sound of it. The article never named any names but only goes after ideas, which is good I guess. Like it didn't say, "Dan Burisch is a disinformer, and that's all you need to know" but instead took the route of "here is what's being said about Grays and Nordics, and here are my reasons for why I think this is false" and if Dan Burisch happens to be the one who said those things, then if the shoe fits...
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:28 AM   #9
Heretic
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

PiriusTarthis

you make good points and I fully respect that even though I think you misinterpreted some of my statements, that is probably my fault for not expressing them with clarity, as I was in a rush

I still do not think this is a good site to go and learn real discernment from due to a lack of balance as some of the material is not displayed in a neutral stance and to me, seems to have a spin

yet after thinking on it, I still believe people should go and read it and decide for themselves and I am sure that either way, knowledge will be gained

I also admit I am taking an alarmist position on this, so I will back off as I feel I have already made my point and any further criticism would simply be argumentative at best

I found the site interesting and provocative and a little mis-leading in some places but that is entirely subjective

peace
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:39 AM   #10
PiriusTarthis
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Okay cool, sorry if I misunderstood anything you were saying. Yeah it's best that everyone make up their own mind when they read it. So far it's been a "love it or hate it" kind of piece. Some really enjoy it, others have gotten a bit turned off. Which makes reading the article itself an exercise in discernment
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

So the gist of this whole argument is that someone wrote an article stating that they have read all this material and came to the conclusion that it all must be fake?

I have several problems with this, I wont list them all, in fact I will only list 1.
Out of the trillions of galaxies in all of the universe, life only exists on our planet? you have to be kidding me!

Sure some things are disinformation, yes not everyone agrees but we are all learning. we never stop learning. I totally disagree with the premise of this thread, it is all based upon someone's conclusion after digesting all information.

-34
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:41 AM   #12
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

from what little i know about tom montalk, he is certainly not a non-believer as such, and has had first-hand experience with et/ut. hes not saying there are no et/ut's or there is no disinfo. imo hes saying that perhaps we should all look at our own experiences, and the things we read and take for granted because they gel with our own ideas, a little more carefully.

www.montalk.net

http://forum.noblerealms.org/
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:46 AM   #13
Orion11
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by realist View Post
This will be my last posting here,

If anybody is interested to read this:

http://montalk.net/alien/145/discern...rmation-part-1
http://montalk.net/alien/146/discern...rmation-part-2
http://montalk.net/alien/147/discern...rmation-part-3
http://montalk.net/alien/148/discern...rmation-part-4

From my point of view people here (that includes Bill and Kerry) are far too gullible. It costs too much energy to separate the wheat from the chaff that is posted here. Many of the Project Camelot whistleblowers are scam artists and/or (knowingly or not) disinfo agents. Time is too precious to waste it.

Good bye !
I am with you.

Well said. Thank you.

and Montalk is one of the select few that ppl should take seriously.
He does know his stuff. Very well.

Last edited by Orion11; 11-05-2008 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:31 PM   #14
Ashatav
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

This is a great lecture about ehhhh mmmmm


Teutonics nights, Financiers of the second world war, Satanists, NAZI technologies including UFOS and how it comes to America!, etc. etc.

http://video.google.es/videoplay?doc...Martin+chldren

Cheers!
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:37 PM   #15
BeaTnik-BandiT
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion11 View Post
I am with you.

Well said. Thank you.

and Montalk is one of the select few that ppl should take seriously.
He does know his stuff. Very well.
Could not agree more.

salute.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:00 PM   #16
Deoxyan
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

montalk has some good points, some bad points, etc. You know. In this life there is none to be trusted about issues like this one, but perspectives to be aware of.

Without conclusive proof all is pure speculation. Speculation is neither a bad or a good thing.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:58 PM   #17
tom
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

When will people learn that ET are in charge of this planet and no one else there are renegade ET and good ET the good ET have been trying to rid this planet of bad ET for thousands of years the very same ones that have kept us in ignorance for millenia they dont want us to know who we really are?The roswell crashes where staged by friendly ET to give man the technology so that we can advance, dont let the scare-mongering worry you that's the idea, fear is there greatest weapon they dont wish to destroy us, just control us with religion and a dummbed down **** education so that we can stay stupid for ever in this life.Well not me bud because i'am onto them.Look at all them craters on the moon there was a clean-up war going on,I also believe that we did land on the moon.But because of what was seen by the astronaut's they then had to create a phony landing in a studio,How else could they explain those big ships sitting there watch the interview with the three astronauts Aldri Armstrong cooper it is the most awkward interview that you are likely to see about three men who should have been excited but i think you will agree they are anything but.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Discerning Alien Disinformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PiriusTarthis View Post
Well, this demonstrates a common problem, that people can't even begin to understand alien motivations if they don't even believe aliens exist. That wouldn't be an issue if they were abductees or had done enough research to know that aliens do exist. The truth is out there
Don't make assumptions.

In 1972 my first wife and I had a very bizarre experience while camping in a remote area of desert in southern CA. Neither of us remembered much about it afterward, which was strange. It involved a very bright light shining down on the tent in the middle of the night, and it wasn't a helicopter. All these years later, if it wasn't a UFO then I have no explanation. I can't think of anything BUT a UFO that would explain what happened that night.

So I do believe they exist, and I may even have seen them, I don't know. I guess it would take a hypnotist to bring back that memory. However, just because I can't offer an explanation doesn't mean that no explanation exists. I do not have proof. This is a topic I've researched for many years, and I have not yet seen PROOF. I have seen and photographed flying objects that I could not identify...but that does not make them alien craft.

I have seen assertions galore. I have seen hundreds of photos that may or may not have been phony. Everyone seems to have an axe to grind here; I do not.

I'd love to see the UFOs land. But in the absence of proof, I prefer to deal with real problems. The aliens - if they exist - are irrelevant to the problems we face in the here and now.
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