Preparations and Planning n Living in Communities

[Force4]

Hi there everyone!

i've noticed that a lot of people have been posting books and opinions on what is best for survival and that really bothers me. I've been watching and reading for some time now and have some concern on the information being given out, first i want to make something very clear and that is SOME OF THE MATERIAL that is being given out is both inadequate and dangerously misleading; for example there is a link to a site regarding steps to take to ensure your safety in event of a nuclear war.

This info is not simply woefully inadequate, it is positively lethal misinformation! The drawings and content indicate early American “Duck and Cover” era platitudes issued to the American people because the powers that be didn’t want to tell them that in reality they were going to burn, and those that didn’t burn were going to melt slowly.

Having read some very sensitive documents the public will never see [even though these were themselves out of date when I saw them,] – I can guarantee that making a bunker under your kitchen table wont help you, neither will a blanket…I suppose to a certain extent it would make the clean up a bit easier for the authorities by keeping the ash and most of the runny bits in one place for collection - if any authorities survive,[doubtful]

You – and am using the “Royal “ you here, should by now be well aware that the powers that be aim their primary efforts and keeping people placid and obedient; sit in the corner, put a blanket over your head and don’t be a nuisance - from their perspective, that’s all this stuff is for – its to make you feel you’re doing something so you don’t make a nuisance of yourself.

Also, the whole idea that everyone who reads this can stock pile 'stuff’ and hide in their house in case of catastrophe is just PURE fallacy!

WHY?
Pick a city – lets say London. Have a good look at it. Some bits are on top of hills, others are in valleys. There are an awful lot of tall buildings. Imagine London 24 hours after a catastrophe.. these no power, so the water is no longer being pumped to the houses and the sewage is no longer being pumped away. Result? Given the number of people, within 24 hours you will be up to your neck in poo, with no heat, no light and no water to drink. How many people live in London? Do you think you will be able to hold on to ANYTHNG useful, drinkable or edible? They will be eating each other, and you as well in 48 hours.

The same is true of all cities, towns and even many villages, but if you think people are going to stay there indefinitely you are wrong. Even the nastiest of people are not keen on paddling in poo with nothing to eat or drink. They are going to start moving – looking for food, resources, shelter etc.and I doubt that they will be polite.

What they find they will take, so you have to contend with a deranged government trying to herd you up and feed you to the reptiles or imprison you for a little snak later and the rest of you r fellow humans.

This applies to all or most of the situations that have been mentioned in this forum. From Earth changes, to civil containment - civil rioting, flooding scenarios to that horrendous scenario of marshal law and (well you all have posted your opinions or have read the posts with all possible scenarios etc) but the point is I'm getting the impression that this whole stocking up strategy works. But you've got to understand that some of you people who are giving all this 'nice' information out is that if YOU know where there is / was a supply of food or drinkable water [believe me, what is in bottles is not going to last very long] other people will know too and some of them wont be as polite.


No one is going to come down from the skies to rescue you, Do you know why? Because we are not responsible as a species. We have not grown up enough yet to take responsibility for our own actions so now its kill or cure time. We will either mature or we wont survive.

Think about it! So many people both preaching sweetness and light – believe everything is wonderful – believe the great and marvelous ascended ones will come rescue us and they will. Not happening! Similarly rescue by andromedan, pleidian etc. Children don’t learn about matches till they burn themselves; the whole point of unconditional love is to allow that to happen – love them enough to let them learn their own lessons and then when [if] they survive they will grow up and find their own way. We have to do it for ourselves or not at all!

IF we pull or fingers out and start taking responsibility they just might take care of the elements that are here from other places, but that is about it until we grow up.

I thought this place was about making a community/communities and becoming more self aware – small, self sufficient communities / groups with a high vibrational level that raises the local energy gradient, pooling their skills and knowledge is the way to go forward. You need communities set up in specific areas with the right mix of skills and knowledge.

TO fight or resist the possible scenarios is not possible, but small self sufficient communities , with the right mix of people can raise the energy gradient locally to the point where these elements will not be ABLE to find you, but do not give up on the technology we have so easily – I don’t much like dentists but dentists without anesthetic or electric drills are a complete nono as far as im concerned.

I've seen some posts which talk about drying fruit n preserving stuff and its all good... i'm making it clear that its all great that you can do that BUT FOR YOUR SAKE, YOUR FAMILIES SAKE OR GODS SAKE PLEASE goddamit come up with something which actually improves your way of life or at least helps sustain some bit of what you enjoy! I don’t want to have the consolation of eating dried fruit n treating myself to a tin of whatever was preserved some weeks ago....er no - i'd much rather spend my time learning on how to sustain my life and how i could actually improve upon it given the exceptional circumstances that are being presented

THINK people THINK ! Don’t go backwards because its easy... yeah you can just sit on your biddy and just go back to the days of yore and 'learn' to live without electricity but for those people i say LOOK at what you are using, LISTEN to what your saying !!!!!!! what are you using now? do you think your computer is useful? do you like the car you drive, the cooker you use or the type of food you eat? what about electricity ------->

is it just ok to use it for all its worth or that you can afford and when the lights go out you can just say oh well i was prepared as i've been learning to live without woopie dooo.... sorry but i just cant do that and i'm not willing to go back to the 1800's -------> too many people have bled and died to get us to where we are and to enjoy the fruits of their struggle and sacrifice, i see some people with pics of Nikola Tesla and pictures of pyramids and other nice n wacky things which honestly i truly don’t understand but i do know that without tesla we may as well be back in the 1800's and good god some of you may think its the easy life and the pipe dream but i seriously ask, are you for real that your willing to let all this slip? i'm trying to not use the sentence "advances in our civilization" but its what we got and its what we have at the moment, its so goddamn easy to go backwards back to the days of wood all that **** but when you really think about YOURSELF and ask yourself how independant are you...

it really starts to be a tough question because most adults would say hey i'm independant and you cant tell me what to do blah blah blah, but I too go to the super market and i too cook my own food and make my own bed and drive my own car, but i have to have someone at the supermarket to sell me this stuff, i have to go to the petrol/gas station to fill my motor up and i enjoy playing on my laptop or working with it, but NOT once has anyone said WHERE DOES IT ALL COME FROM and HOW CAN I BUILD UPON MY KNOWLEDGE SO I CAN DO IT TOO?

now people are going to perceive this as a 'negative' post and some will say we must shed ourselves of this false existence and cover ourselves with poo and go back to the age of face paint and war sticks (lol ok joke) but the point is I think we first must consider the essentials of LIVING and not surviving, oh and this brings me to another point. ALL those Army GI JOE manuals are rubbish, mostly because they 'deal with the situation with what you got' kind of strategy which was based upon being in a conflict or behind enemy lines...also those manuals were designed for men who have been trained to kill, have armoured and or air/ground support in the same theatre or battle and oh did i mention forward command bases, extra buddies who also have the same manual as you and have been in the same barracks or training with the same drills etc etc and have been trained/doing exercises on a daily basis to know this manual inside out just because they depend on this... oh and you thought you can just open it and that'd make you a kickass marine or ground infantryman in just several chapters???? ok ok i'm poking holes now but you can see where i'm going with this

ANYWAY rant over.

point is there is neat info on this forum and there is ... ABSOLUTELY obsolete or inapplicable rubbish here which does not pertain to a family or a community of people on the move or setting up in a new place. and i'm telling you now i aint going to be the one who says HEY GUYS! I BROUGHT DRIED APPLES N DRIED CARROTS ALONG! One thing i see on this place is that not a lot of you have a game plan which covers all bases and I admit that my plan is also not finished but I have been doing some research on my own strengths and weaknesses with what opportunities i have open and what is a concern or difficulty for me, which lead me to this place www.yourselfsufficiency.com.

I found their books to be a bit of a shocker as I didn’t have a clue that you could make your own power systems and i've been chasing the Zero point NRG projects for some time now but at this place, someone has amassed links to books which you have to pay for but I’ve bought a few and the first i got was the Energy for Solar and WIND as these gave me the basis to power my laptop n other stuff like a fridge or whatever to keep my food fresh for a while, anyway point is I looked at what i enjoyed most and found that the books mentioned here at avalon didn’t actually help me uphold them but rather go backwards in technology and stuff. I know people will say that i'm holding onto a false dream but dammit i like using my car, my computer, talking to my friends, eating fresh food and even stuff like electricity... i don’t know what the hell it is but i damn well like using it.

ok point is - LOL - i'm angry that a lot of people here are resigned to the idea that HEY there’s going to be a big solar burp so we should all be ready to go back to wood woooya yeeehaaaaar back to the old 1800's and wild west ya'll... ok i'm taking the **** again but you may just want to check out www.yourselfsufficiency.com as I managed to have a look around and bought several books which helped me build a solar panel which works and i'm just fitting in time to make / learn how to tend to a permaculture/food garden project. I will be looking out for their tools section as well - I dont know too much about farming though but they have a book on how to make over 250 tools for farming. but EVERYONE its in your interest to look at what your missing in your knowledge!

its easy to sit on your ass and let the clouds hover by, but to really defend your way of life may take more than just a webpage!

Oh and if anyone else has a site which has current info or even amazon stuff. Be pasting those links! I want to learn more!


BTW - Thanks to everyone else who has tried to help and thank you Bill n Kerry. I hope the road is not too hard to travel even if its a long one. KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK!


To everyone else. Hope to YOU all =) BE PREPARED! NOT SURPRISED! Dont be the one with the pickled apples!

[dagon]

welcome force4.

you make some valid points. some of the best advise I have heard yet. hope you stick @. I agree with 80% if not more. but we all must find a cleaner way to live. even solar panels and batteries are toxic. Im more concerned with over population. than surviving a nuke. if one go's off in my back yard. I hope to watch it hit on a mountain top. I also think a more active approach in the physical sense is required. mind and body. I personally can do without most things that rule our lives. we are ruled by our possessions. and we all take it for granted. I sure wouldn't want to go with out my wetsuit. and dive mask. I also feel the system is all wrong. it creates greed. and it is a form of slavery. if energy was free. we would be free. as long as it was clean. now were starting to get into the world I would like to see. all what we pay for is energy related. and as long as we pay for it. we will never be truly free. but Im just a dreamer I guess.. LOL..



thanks for the info!!!!

[Humble Janitor]

I gotta agree with the original poster. I would rather find a way to sustain my life instead of crawling in a hole with a tin of vienna sausages and crackers.

[jazzgad]

Lots of anger for no reason ,we can take from this forum whatever we want
I originally thought that this forum is so people can start sustainable communities
But I live right now in big city and don’t have much of savings to relocate right now
When job market is so f.. up and work I must to have roof over my head and food .
And I guess most of us are in situation like that,we are cornered relying on big corporation
To get our food and energy and taped out economically to change it
Even thou we know that is precisely the place power that be wants us .

And you know what I m not angry my survival is not ultimate goal
I feel ok with my situation ,heck there are people in California or other
Places that are supposedly days before big quake and they are ok too
Waiting for whatever life will bring them hoping that they will met
Those challenges with dignity and humility.

Our souls have script for us and I agree dried fruits won’t change it
Nor solar powered laptop .

[MMe M]

Look, the reality is you may not be able to stay stationary. You may need to go to ground or be mobile. You cant exactly tow your better equiped house around, but dried fruits, and meat can be mobile. We learned that from the native americans.

What you say about rescue is true. We must deliver ourselves. It wont be without conflict and making do with less till things quite a bit. This is pretty standard per history, the only real lessons we have to go by. We also can look at survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasake while preparing a shelter. One site link I found on here is highly accurate and very informative but said nothing about a table and blnket, more like cinder blocks and lots of water storage. Not everybody melts if your far enough down with adequit air filtration and stores built up.

Wells are handy things and do not need electicity to use, only a working knowledge of pumps and how to build or obtain one.

As far as poo goes, if you dont know enough to take a slops can out and bury its contents, I just dont think theres any help for you. Help yourself, thats the key here. No rescue beyond what you can do for yourself. Necessity is the mother of invention, eh? Someone will eventually come up with a betteralternative. Till then, we have to adapt and learn to be flexable.

The other thing is this, You can learn everything there is to know about farming but if you have no seeds to plant, your still in trouble. Or the crops are nearly ready to havest but that pack of roving marauders stole every edible you were going to eat because you simply didnt buy a gun nor ammo. No wild west days for you! Wood heat is better than freezing, pioneers knew this else youd not be here bemoaning the fact that you may need to utilize a few of their skills to live.

Rolling over just cause you cant have your amenities should not be an option. Are we that weak and soft now we must just die because theres no internet or flush toilets? Good gracious.

[Carmen]

That was a great tirade Force4 and you are right on. Its one thing to read about sustainability. Its another thing to think about sustainability. Quite another to plan to be sustainable and a whole different ballgame to impliment it. I have made a start, but thats all it is at the moment. A start. Also being self-sufficient takes time. Times that we take for granted in a convenience society. Milking the cow takes half an hour, that includes feeding the pig, the pet lamb and the hens. Also dealing with the milk, making butter, cottage cheese sour cream etc. Gardening takes time also. Im not moaning. I live on a farm and would be doing most of these chores anyway. Ive just added a few more in light of the coming predictions. And yes, I take your point about romanticing the old days. The old days were +++++y hard Im sure. Until I started taking some "action" the whole idea of sustainability overwhelmed me, but as I took the actions towards it, other ideas came to me and now Im on a bit of a roll. The group in my area who are awake and planning share ideas and technologies of solar wind etc. I dont invision being without electricity and conveniences for too long, but Im preparing to be for a period

[Force4]

@ Jazzgad -

Bruv - look at what you have just said... my translation is "i dont have money and i have to work for money so i have a roof over my head. so you are wrong with what you have just said and your solar powered laptop is not going to make a difference"

Also being angry or not does not add or give any credence to your argument or point. Angry or not - I've come to say a few things which make all the difference to whether you have an electric heater OR starting a fire out of phuck-all or rooting around for combustible materials. THIS goes for MMe M as well.

Yes I CAN SET THINGS ON FIRE as well. no problem and i didnt say it was one. But recently i heard that the tree population was not as high as it used to be when my grandad was going on his adventures and had the oppertunity to have a look at true beauty. Bruv you just basically fell on your own sword, bleeding profusely and not know about it.

and about Good Gracious omg there is no flushing toilet! Well please tell me you enjoy going outside at whatever HOUR it is just to take a leak or a dump and please tell me your are practicing now with a shuvel and some cardboard as experimental toilet paper becuase i must be bad for advocating warm toilets and nice thigns in life which we take for granted now of which i am telling you to prepare by learning how to make use of such resources at the internet and knowledge in books online or not online. I never said last resort was a bad thing but i definitely am not saying last resort is the first resort.

trust me... desperation can make man do many things including setting things on fire... wood or not.


AS FOR BEING MOBILE (god it sounds like i' have to draw a plan with stick men, power point presentation and make a cartoon...) forexample... you can have a mobile wind turbine which you can plunk in the ground and if you ACTUALLY went to the site and bought a book.... you could possibly engage the organ known as the brain and start employing something called creativity with good old common sense and say.... use a stirling engine, fixed onto a mirror convex or staggered which can then be utilising a solar panel as a secondary or primary source of power to start the device up, which could then be hooked onto a hydrogen producing unit fitted to a protonic membrane which can act as a power storage unit by using a battery which of course can be made inline with 'said wind turbine and that i got the inspiration from buying water4gas book from the website along with the Solar n Wind book.... but of course! this aint goign to make a difference to your way of life is it? ....

all of this is possible!

i'm sorry that i come across as 'angry' but posts like that really do drive me

dear sirs n madams, even i can dig a hole and got a few ways to start a fire with wood but the point is - when its time to hustle and you gotta move then you gotta move but i'd want my car to move further for less petrol or in case of water in the car, i'd like to know that my hydrogen is made on demand, that i have a source of power for my ham radio and.... god i want to go back to the toilet argument ------------->

Bruv - have you ever had the need to go..as in really need to GO and that the end of heaven and time will occur if you dont? well tell me you've resorted to using a shuvel when the gates of yo' ass need to vent and its cutting cold outside and you need to dig a hole that would make a deep underground military base proud

or you could just use a compost toilet and say to yourself.. gosh this technology thingy is well good

and before you say 'duh you do it on the floor first then you dig the hole' i'd just look at your pic, then at my dog then at your pic again... and just sit here in silence.

But right you are sir - your way is not a fail, it is not bad and its not wrong.

But seriously if there was avalon users out there and the net was still up, i dont want to be the sucker with the pickled apples or the one without the battery power for the laptop to say hi guys look at us, we're still talking , come here to my community becuase your

if you dont see my perspective then i'm not forcing you to. I didnt say apples or carrots or wood or whatever was bad. I just dont like the idea that you lot use the computer to make a really good come back at me, that you aint using that shuvel yet or that you can just say I HAVE NO MONEY SO I DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. OR CANT.

No one is chaining you to the desk, no one is stopping you from walking away.
if you like taking walks in the matrix and gossiping about it then you do that...I just hope that this thread keeps someones kid safe, someones loved ones warm and that it gives you above all else.... KNOWLEDGE.

if thats bad then i'll just hug a tree and set it on fire when it suites me cus thats acceptable and anything percieved as natural and if my daddy's daddy did it and their ancestors did it then I should be able to do it to.

DEAR BOYS N GIRLS. Ladies n gentleman. ITS BECAUSE THEY DID IT LIKE THAT and then some poor geezer decided that a light bulb was more illuminating then stick of wood on fire ------> is the reason why you can now take a good slap at me and your probably going to be quite good at your retort as well.

by the way - i do not think you are stupid or dumb = i just think you are wrong in letting go so easily. But its FINE! its up to you

But what you dont do is convince everyone else that your view is the rigth view and that its fine to just 'go back' ... what i'm saying WE CAN ALWAYS GO BACK, but its much harder and of a challenge to make 'it' go forward.

i really do hope you understand that as i will not be 'going back' to this argument.

btw to the lovely lady who mesaged me - yes i did buy the solar n wind power book but i also bought others thats why i'm coming up with combo setups instead of the bog standard. They also have community of people who are doing their own and they are VERY HELPFUL i really thought i'd be laughed at and people would think i was stupid for asking 'whats amperage' but they are really cool people - i think it was the best thing ever if you can buy a product but also get like minded people helping you in their own community like spirit.

Also i found ozzy freedoms book also taught me alot about how to save fuel for my car but i've tried using water with petrol generators and its awesome!!! but i'm now trying out a hybrid system for my car and my power system. Hope to see you lot becoming mobile and powered!

Its easy to go back - we can always go back to the way we were. Easy.

I wish you all luck hope and light on the trail and trials ahead. oh of course if you aint got the light then set a stick of wood on fire.

PEACE!

[jazzgad]

"Its easy to go back - we can always go back to the way we were. Easy."
no one argues that 6 billion people can go back to ways we were living in
19 century ,that is precisely the conundrum our modern technology and
medicine made possible for humans to multiply to this levels that are unsustainable and are killing this planet . now our spirituality and higher awareness must catch up with our technology and as those prediction
and common sense are telling us we will get there kicking and screaming
like a teenager who likes his toys but don't like any responsibility.

it also makes sense that those oriented toward service of others will have better chances to survive those tribulation over those that only are looking for own end who will fight between themselves for last scrap of food .
Cooperation and meditation is the key here .

I m not arguing with you i just stating my truth saying I trust my higher spirit
will I be able to find community of like minded people and survive this mess
great ,I wont and I depart from this mess even better ,no need to argu or to be angry .

[dagon]

there is a way. composting toilets. and recycling gray water would have saved the salmon and trout spec here in calif/ I wonder how many gallons we all flush away every morning. makes a lot of sence actually. but you can go outside if you like. you really need porcelain to dump in. we treat out turds better then the dead. LOL... and don't get me started on wastewater management/

[soapcrates]

OK, firstly, Hello all. I too am fairly new here but have been watching and listening for a while. Firstly, I have to say that there appear to be one or two rather brave people taking the names of various entities, on whose behalf I really hope those beings either never find out or approve both of you putting words in their mouths and of the words you are using – The watchers of the space time continuum for example, Mr “Force 4” might take issue with remarks concerning ‘poo’ and other things, and I’m not that sure a member for the Pleiadian delegation who has had it s fingers in the earth pie since before humans were seeded here will be that keen on certain things either, Mr Dagon…..

I could go on, but what the hey, it might be fun to watch if they ever do catch on – its been ages since I seen someone turned into a frog! [or, in the case of force 4, a mouse…hur hur ! and yes, I know they wont love me for that.[those who know will appreciate the joke, those who don’t are, I this respect, perhaps happier not.]

Generally, however, I am in agreement with both the aforementioned persons – although to an extent you and others here are missing some aspects of the point a little, I think.

With regard to technology, you guys are losing the plot. The whole point of this age is to move forward; the utilization of “technologies that we have at the moment is by definition retrograde. What is currently considered “cutting edge” is little more than a child’s toy if that and is basically an evolutionary, technological and scientific dead end that needs to be discarded in order for appropriate progression to take place.

However, the original point of machinery and other technologies was to liberate the body from both continual toil and physical discomfort / dis-ease for long enough to allow the mind to focus more fully on matters that, while having little to do with immediate survival – ie where the next meal was coming form, have total significance in terms of long term survival and evolution of the species.

Retaining what is of use for long enough to allow the completion of the knowledge that is even now seeping into the collective unconscious to be completed is fine and dandy and I don’t like dentists etiehr. I d, however, know what the human mind/ being is capable of and “where we’re going, you don’t need roads!” that is, if we do it right and the only ones who are going to “do” anything here is us – you got that right
Both divine[HA!} rescue and extra anything else rescue are myths.


It has for many years been a contention of mine that the purpose of parents is to put enough twists into their children to allow them to survive adulthood. The “parents” – if they deserve the name – of the human race have certainly achieved that even if it was not quite what any of them had in mind when they stuck their fingers in the pie [and believe me we are NOT what they had in mind, which is half the problem].

None the less, we live in what, for lack of a better word, I can only call a “consensus universe” the common denominator of the quantum determinations of each individual [sorry but the language is inadequate to the task in terms of a more precise definition], and as such the greatest barrier to our proposed liberation form the test tube is our fear.

You have to realize that you are not simply living in the matrix, there are layers of misdirection and misinformation up to and including 2000 years of social engineering that have been put in place, all to keep you here and percent or inhibit inconvenient progress.

Your fear and many of your limiting beliefs have been deliberately installed. I cant move, I haven’t got enough money” – “I don’t have anywhere to live” I need food “ shelter\” its not safe” im too weak “ too tall, too sort, too fat, too slim” the species has been indoctrinated with layers of fear and doubt –

The first – the very FIRST law of any form of survival or self sufficiency is to
BELIEVE IN YOURSELF.

Ye gods! There is so much you guys are missing. If I write it all down here you wont be able to read it.

As individuals and as communities, there is no limit to what you can do. Everything you want, everything you need and everything you ever will need is available to you if you can only agree on what you want and how to get it – be of one mind and take action without hesitation. Do it now and do it right and you will have it all. The main reason for the history of confusion and disinformation that is everywhere on this planet is that all the parties that could reasonably be referred to as “they” are scared ****less of humans. For very good reasons – for what humanity can become

We are not what they expected and now they don’t quite know what to do with us. As long as we are divided or distracted or afraid, we can be contained. See, they planted flowers and they triffids. This is what happens when too many cooks are involved.

As long as you believe you are harmless or powerless or in any way “less than” - you will be.

The answers are in front of you and so are all the resources you need.

I ain’t rokit science guys!!

[Force4]

bruva - read my post. Then ask your higher self to read it and understand it.

You think i'm saying SAVE YOUR OWN SKIN FIRST.
But i'm telling you just because you talk nice doesnt mean you are automatically allocated a 'get out of here' ticket and neither does not going to the site which i talked about - and examining what is possible FOR YOU. (and to then to teach?)

this is just commentary from me - but when you say 'blah blah.... oriented to service to others... blah blah' ok that was really bad but i just want you to know that EVERYONE WHO EVER LEARNS SOMETHING is learning for themselves - then you can lead the way. But if you think that the spirit/higherself/guide are there 24/7 to tell you where to be n go then i feel sorry and congratulate 'them' for doing such a kick ass job. But you could possibly help them out sometime...

if you think you can take on the entirety of problems present with meditation and whatever you do... THEN FINE>>> Do it and if you ascend or turn into another form or whatever then i'll say WTF no one told me it was that easy! Thanks Jaazgad even i will come face 2 face with you and congratulate and admi that i was wrong. But once again

I am just saying that you are taking alot of this for granted and i came to a realisation that reality and what is beyond is now a meglomanic cross between but for the moment - I say educate yourself so that you can.. oh i dunno, TEACH someone else maybe or even TEACH YOURSELF?? But oh no worries dont worry you will be where you need to be so you dont need to study or need education or anything like that. No sir. Not for you. You'll just land on your feet and everything will be cushy as you'll just tack onto a community instead which may have very well learnt a few things from this one thread or from their own education.... now the word leeching comes to mind....

Anyway fair point but I am here solely to ensure that you reach the finishing line. If you want to make it thorugh meditation. Go for it DOOD!
If you want to make it there through the wild west way THEN DO IT!

But i'm looking to reduce all my silly needs like power n food n living to a minimum so i can just get on with things.

I did not once say that it was the most important thing to have your tv or laptop or whatever. But i bet you lot dont even know how to make paper or pencils either so i guess its chalk n stone walls n etchings. (ok if you dont have a sense of humour then i'll stop with the pokin)

Point is - your using this computer everyday and you've managed to be civil about posting back. But if you think i came here to solve world poverty n over population then you are wrong. But this can lead to a solution.

I advocate making yourself sufficient first so that you can change yourself to be able to change the world.

and to make another point - you said medicine allowed us to multiply to this amount... no sir no it didnt infact you should see what modern medicine is really doing. oh and the multiplying part... ahem it dont take medicine. It takes males n females and alot of irresponsibility

Mother earth is a beauty unmatched but we have only been taking from her, if we dont become sufficient in ourselves and what we have - then we may as well JUST let the higher self do the work so we dont have to! woppie! (ok crass ending)

Point is - i've been where you are but i've moved on and i' can emphatically say that you are right. But here are exceptional circumstances and if you think that having nothing (money/friends/community/family/power etc) exempts you from this then i say you really need to think long n hard about how you will look after yourself - besides looking after a community.

You say service to self is bad - i say you better do yourself a good service and learn so that you can be of use and value to your community.

[Marian-Librarian]

Force4,

Welcome to you....

The library of Avalon is still in the becoming stage...we are now currently working on topic/subject headings and the format of this even as we speak.

It will be the best that we can offer at this time. Be assured, we will be selective in what goes in there as best we can. None of us knows all knowledge of course, but we will be striving to make it the best that it can be. Your imput will be welcome, as all members of this forum will/can contribute to it.

Be patient, it is coming, and soon. Some of us have a bit of learning to do with the software. In the mean time, you can be thinking of things to contribute to it that you think are worthwhile...an helpful and correct in their info....

Peace to you,
One of Avalon's librarian team members
Marian

[Carol]

Marian is being modest. The work they are doing is remarkable.

Force4, I want to thank you for your post and links which I bookmarked.

Sometimes it is a bit frustrating that folks are more asleep then they realize and its good for them to have good source of data to help take care of themselves.

[soapcrates]

Well, to be absolutely clear, unless you have a bolt through your neck, you most certainly are not a “bruva” of mine – besides which, no “bruva” of mine would so desecrate the Queens English, be it written or spoken.

It might perhaps be interesting to observe that those with the greatest aggression are those with the most fear , or it may not. In some ways they also have the least confusion, since they do have a tendency towards te simple.

Meditation? Yes, most certainly; providing you do actually understand the mechanism and its purpose, because then you can do it while you are digging your hole. The highest technology we have is our minds, but a nice warm fire is good too. I dislike too much =electricity because the radiant portion messes with our wiring. Although I wouldn’t dismiss it totally.

And by the way, yes I can build nay own generator, pencils, pens assortment of colored inks, oven, furnace, forge, tools, weapons heating and lighting and house, come to that. I can also work lead, grow heal with herbs, oils, sophisticated medicines energy and the mind.

Can’ pain t the Mona Lisa but I can have a good bash. Am a passable sculptor, good sword smith, armoires, blacksmith, jewellerplu8mber, metaphysician and many other things.

But, to mis quote one of my heroes:” Do not be too pleased with this technological terror you’ve created. Its power is as nothing next to the power of the force”.

Sitting on your duff meditating and believing in sweetness and light will get you little except a frostbitten behind. Nor will acting as an individual or building your oewn nuclear power station. It is not going t be that easy.

However, there is no reason for anyone to endure too much in the way of discomfort if you organize things now. L amazed you haven’t figures it out yet.



Incidentally, for those power hungry persons who are desperate to retain their laptops, there’no reason why you cant. There is more than enough renewable technology available now that works on a small scale, but the happy clappy love n light brigade are also an essential part of this and you have a lot to learn from them just as they do from you. It is crucial that such groups as are formed contain and adequate mix in order to raise the energy levels enough to create a suitable energy gradient and to engage in the next phase of the work effectively.

The re are sufficient funds, sufficient resources and sufficient technology for all to do what they need to – it is merely a mater of collecting them and this you can do once you lose the fear, learn to understand and begin to believe - you should be. It just has to be groups of communities, not individuals or groups of individuals.
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/i...es/tongue2.gif

[soapcrates]

I have just been to see the site force 4 wqas referreing to and it is inded a good and worthy source of usefull data. bopught a couple of books ther myself. well worth a look and well worht the investment of precious pennies.

[MMe M]

Force4,
You are just beyond any point of reaching and too ignorant to know it. More words doesnt make you sound intelligent. Quite the reverse. Getting heated about survival hints tips and tricks is the epitome of stupidity.

You are so busy degrading all that you cannot see the forrest for the trees. Have you been across the country? There are still vast tracts of forest. That is the easiest thing to fix. Plant a tree. As far as wood to burn, it must be dry and seasoned hardwoods else the chimney fills with creosote. A deadly flamable black glassy substance that will catch your chimney and then house on fire. So the best firewood isnt had by cutting down a live tree as it must sit for a year to season, it is finding the recent deadfalls or felling dead trees. Thats all im going to give you. More than you deserve but perhaps someone else on here may benefit from sound advice.

Have you had experience with a fireplace or cooking with fire? No?

Honestly, you sound a bit young. Thats the nicest way I can put how you did sound. The best way to learn is to listen and observe. Ask valid questions. Give input knowing you have much yet to learn, as do we all.

I am done.

[Carmen]

Originally Posted by Force4

Hi there everyone!

i've noticed that a lot of people have been posting books and opinions on what is best for survival and that really bothers me. I've been watching and reading for some time now and have some concern on the information being given out, first i want to make something very clear and that is SOME OF THE MATERIAL that is being given out is both inadequate and dangerously misleading; for example there is a link to a site regarding steps to take to ensure your safety in event of a nuclear war.

This info is not simply woefully inadequate, it is positively lethal misinformation! The drawings and content indicate early American “Duck and Cover” era platitudes issued to the American people because the powers that be didn’t want to tell them that in reality they were going to burn, and those that didn’t burn were going to melt slowly.

Having read some very sensitive documents the public will never see [even though these were themselves out of date when I saw them,] – I can guarantee that making a bunker under your kitchen table wont help you, neither will a blanket…I suppose to a certain extent it would make the clean up a bit easier for the authorities by keeping the ash and most of the runny bits in one place for collection - if any authorities survive,[doubtful]

You – and am using the “Royal “ you here, should by now be well aware that the powers that be aim their primary efforts and keeping people placid and obedient; sit in the corner, put a blanket over your head and don’t be a nuisance - from their perspective, that’s all this stuff is for – its to make you feel you’re doing something so you don’t make a nuisance of yourself.

Also, the whole idea that everyone who reads this can stock pile 'stuff’ and hide in their house in case of catastrophe is just PURE fallacy!

WHY?
Pick a city – lets say London. Have a good look at it. Some bits are on top of hills, others are in valleys. There are an awful lot of tall buildings. Imagine London 24 hours after a catastrophe.. these no power, so the water is no longer being pumped to the houses and the sewage is no longer being pumped away. Result? Given the number of people, within 24 hours you will be up to your neck in poo, with no heat, no light and no water to drink. How many people live in London? Do you think you will be able to hold on to ANYTHNG useful, drinkable or edible? They will be eating each other, and you as well in 48 hours.

The same is true of all cities, towns and even many villages, but if you think people are going to stay there indefinitely you are wrong. Even the nastiest of people are not keen on paddling in poo with nothing to eat or drink. They are going to start moving – looking for food, resources, shelter etc.and I doubt that they will be polite.

What they find they will take, so you have to contend with a deranged government trying to herd you up and feed you to the reptiles or imprison you for a little snak later and the rest of you r fellow humans.

This applies to all or most of the situations that have been mentioned in this forum. From Earth changes, to civil containment - civil rioting, flooding scenarios to that horrendous scenario of marshal law and (well you all have posted your opinions or have read the posts with all possible scenarios etc) but the point is I'm getting the impression that this whole stocking up strategy works. But you've got to understand that some of you people who are giving all this 'nice' information out is that if YOU know where there is / was a supply of food or drinkable water [believe me, what is in bottles is not going to last very long] other people will know too and some of them wont be as polite.


No one is going to come down from the skies to rescue you, Do you know why? Because we are not responsible as a species. We have not grown up enough yet to take responsibility for our own actions so now its kill or cure time. We will either mature or we wont survive.

Think about it! So many people both preaching sweetness and light – believe everything is wonderful – believe the great and marvelous ascended ones will come rescue us and they will. Not happening! Similarly rescue by andromedan, pleidian etc. Children don’t learn about matches till they burn themselves; the whole point of unconditional love is to allow that to happen – love them enough to let them learn their own lessons and then when [if] they survive they will grow up and find their own way. We have to do it for ourselves or not at all!

IF we pull or fingers out and start taking responsibility they just might take care of the elements that are here from other places, but that is about it until we grow up.

I thought this place was about making a community/communities and becoming more self aware – small, self sufficient communities / groups with a high vibrational level that raises the local energy gradient, pooling their skills and knowledge is the way to go forward. You need communities set up in specific areas with the right mix of skills and knowledge.

TO fight or resist the possible scenarios is not possible, but small self sufficient communities , with the right mix of people can raise the energy gradient locally to the point where these elements will not be ABLE to find you, but do not give up on the technology we have so easily – I don’t much like dentists but dentists without anesthetic or electric drills are a complete nono as far as im concerned.

I've seen some posts which talk about drying fruit n preserving stuff and its all good... i'm making it clear that its all great that you can do that BUT FOR YOUR SAKE, YOUR FAMILIES SAKE OR GODS SAKE PLEASE goddamit come up with something which actually improves your way of life or at least helps sustain some bit of what you enjoy! I don’t want to have the consolation of eating dried fruit n treating myself to a tin of whatever was preserved some weeks ago....er no - i'd much rather spend my time learning on how to sustain my life and how i could actually improve upon it given the exceptional circumstances that are being presented

THINK people THINK ! Don’t go backwards because its easy... yeah you can just sit on your biddy and just go back to the days of yore and 'learn' to live without electricity but for those people i say LOOK at what you are using, LISTEN to what your saying !!!!!!! what are you using now? do you think your computer is useful? do you like the car you drive, the cooker you use or the type of food you eat? what about electricity ------->

is it just ok to use it for all its worth or that you can afford and when the lights go out you can just say oh well i was prepared as i've been learning to live without woopie dooo.... sorry but i just cant do that and i'm not willing to go back to the 1800's -------> too many people have bled and died to get us to where we are and to enjoy the fruits of their struggle and sacrifice, i see some people with pics of Nikola Tesla and pictures of pyramids and other nice n wacky things which honestly i truly don’t understand but i do know that without tesla we may as well be back in the 1800's and good god some of you may think its the easy life and the pipe dream but i seriously ask, are you for real that your willing to let all this slip? i'm trying to not use the sentence "advances in our civilization" but its what we got and its what we have at the moment, its so goddamn easy to go backwards back to the days of wood all that **** but when you really think about YOURSELF and ask yourself how independant are you...

it really starts to be a tough question because most adults would say hey i'm independant and you cant tell me what to do blah blah blah, but I too go to the super market and i too cook my own food and make my own bed and drive my own car, but i have to have someone at the supermarket to sell me this stuff, i have to go to the petrol/gas station to fill my motor up and i enjoy playing on my laptop or working with it, but NOT once has anyone said WHERE DOES IT ALL COME FROM and HOW CAN I BUILD UPON MY KNOWLEDGE SO I CAN DO IT TOO?

now people are going to perceive this as a 'negative' post and some will say we must shed ourselves of this false existence and cover ourselves with poo and go back to the age of face paint and war sticks (lol ok joke) but the point is I think we first must consider the essentials of LIVING and not surviving, oh and this brings me to another point. ALL those Army GI JOE manuals are rubbish, mostly because they 'deal with the situation with what you got' kind of strategy which was based upon being in a conflict or behind enemy lines...also those manuals were designed for men who have been trained to kill, have armoured and or air/ground support in the same theatre or battle and oh did i mention forward command bases, extra buddies who also have the same manual as you and have been in the same barracks or training with the same drills etc etc and have been trained/doing exercises on a daily basis to know this manual inside out just because they depend on this... oh and you thought you can just open it and that'd make you a kickass marine or ground infantryman in just several chapters???? ok ok i'm poking holes now but you can see where i'm going with this

ANYWAY rant over.

point is there is neat info on this forum and there is ... ABSOLUTELY obsolete or inapplicable rubbish here which does not pertain to a family or a community of people on the move or setting up in a new place. and i'm telling you now i aint going to be the one who says HEY GUYS! I BROUGHT DRIED APPLES N DRIED CARROTS ALONG! One thing i see on this place is that not a lot of you have a game plan which covers all bases and I admit that my plan is also not finished but I have been doing some research on my own strengths and weaknesses with what opportunities i have open and what is a concern or difficulty for me, which lead me to this place www.yourselfsufficiency.com.

I found their books to be a bit of a shocker as I didn’t have a clue that you could make your own power systems and i've been chasing the Zero point NRG projects for some time now but at this place, someone has amassed links to books which you have to pay for but I’ve bought a few and the first i got was the Energy for Solar and WIND as these gave me the basis to power my laptop n other stuff like a fridge or whatever to keep my food fresh for a while, anyway point is I looked at what i enjoyed most and found that the books mentioned here at avalon didn’t actually help me uphold them but rather go backwards in technology and stuff. I know people will say that i'm holding onto a false dream but dammit i like using my car, my computer, talking to my friends, eating fresh food and even stuff like electricity... i don’t know what the hell it is but i damn well like using it.

ok point is - LOL - i'm angry that a lot of people here are resigned to the idea that HEY there’s going to be a big solar burp so we should all be ready to go back to wood woooya yeeehaaaaar back to the old 1800's and wild west ya'll... ok i'm taking the **** again but you may just want to check out www.yourselfsufficiency.com as I managed to have a look around and bought several books which helped me build a solar panel which works and i'm just fitting in time to make / learn how to tend to a permaculture/food garden project. I will be looking out for their tools section as well - I dont know too much about farming though but they have a book on how to make over 250 tools for farming. but EVERYONE its in your interest to look at what your missing in your knowledge!

its easy to sit on your ass and let the clouds hover by, but to really defend your way of life may take more than just a webpage!

Oh and if anyone else has a site which has current info or even amazon stuff. Be pasting those links! I want to learn more!


BTW - Thanks to everyone else who has tried to help and thank you Bill n Kerry. I hope the road is not too hard to travel even if its a long one. KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK!


To everyone else. Hope to YOU all =) BE PREPARED! NOT SURPRISED! Dont be the one with the pickled apples!

Hi again Force4. Don't be too quick to rubbish the dried foods brigade. I started last year drying food and its great stuff. Full of nutrition. Easy to store. Doesnt take up miles of room and it tastes great. I can do away with my freezer. Dry all that I will need for winter, supplimenting fresh stuff from the garden. My beef jerky is great. Even if there was no need to be preparing I would take on drying food, because its a better system, healthier and easier on the environment. Its one thing from the1800s that is better

[Force4]

MMe - You missed the point as well. Less words the better.

As for cooking over a fire - yes i have,
open fire as in camping? yes i have.

that wood suggestion? fine sure you do that.

As for a kid? fine sure you think that. Happy days to you and that other ideology which also works, i never said it didnt but if it makes you happy to know that i also agree that we can always go back to wood etc and that we shouldnt persue technological routes then ok... we shouldnt.

Hey - first thing is - you should neither judge someones experience by how long or short they have been on this plane of existence, secondly i'm sorry your offended by the humour and your inference of me being stupid? well i'm sorry you had to resort to that as well. You've only focused on one thing but thats ok. Dont visit the yourselfsufficiency.com you probably dont need it. but others might.

and as for Jazzgad - he hit it right on the nail when he talked about service to self and service to others. As for the wood advice - thanks but saying someone doesnt deserve knowledge? on a forum like this?

I dont know if you've taken the time to even publish that bit of information elsewhere but i've taken the view that i like the technology advancement route - you lot seem to like the other route.

I HAVE NOT SAID it was a bad or wrong route. If you here to win battles then fine, you win. I came to share what was around.

Insult me or whatever - but if anyone wants to know more AFTER they learn about the MMe way of doing things if you have already given info out then fine. I've never said you was wrong. But maybe its me being young.

Toot to you and good day.