For "Survivors" Eyes Only

Agreed.

If you are going to stay in an urban area, then you must be prepared to help all who seek it. You will not end up an island unto yourself, no matter where you end up in the coming years. Wherever you find yourself in the future, never be afraid to start the kickball game - if you can't get a game going, reevaluate where you are.

Neighbors will have to be neighbors. City, burbs, countryside - we all gotta' start getting along.

Seriously though, those of you reading this, consider getting out of the heart of any urban area. At least for right now. The countryside is good for the health, and the mind.

[Wolfladyk]

Anyone interested in joining a small (2-3) community in northern Arizona who actually HAS some money to invest, please contact me. I have put together several places that are very doable. You can email me at Helkado@yahoo.com to get more info and talk. PLEASE...only serious people reply. I have been working on a survival scenario for almost a year knowing what is coming.

THE IMPORTANCE OF UNDERSTANDING GEOGRAPHY

I have no links to offer, or any books to recommend on this topic, as I am self taught, and most of what I know is specific to me.

Apocalypse or not, it never hurts to know the lay of the land. No matter where you live, having a working, usable knowledge of local, regional, and global topography, civilian road infastructures, and commercial trade routes (plane, train, and boat) is a good idea. Buy a map for the nearest local municipality, or the county in which you reside. Study it and figure out how it works - using your residence or local haunts as points of reference. Then, expand outward. Get a detailed state map, then move up to a national atlas - one that has detailed info on train tracks, airports, and waterways. Just in case a drunk driver takes out the pole at the end of the street at the very exact moment you need to know how to get to where you want to be, and thus you can't MapQuest it, get to know some physical, paper maps. Maps can be difficult, so put the effort into figuring out how to read one now. Build a small map collection - its fun if you travel a lot. Learn how to read them, or the trees sacrificed to our knowledge base will have died for nothing.

Always keep in mind that knowing where not to go can be just as good as getting where you want to go.

I just posted this on the "Capitalism" thread:

"I think that we will see an incredible surge in the stock market this week, especially after Obama "wins" the election.

Here is the good news. The stock market, despite what a lot of you folks believe, is still subject to the whims of thousands still willing to make market decisions for their own best interests - not do what they are told to do. Obama's victory, hyped as the presidency of change, will inspire those who can make their own decisions to be calm, keep their money in certain U.S. industries (yes, we still have some), and wait till January to do anything of any significance.

Here is another bit of silver lining to the coming months. If you have the money, buy property. Be smart about it. Don't sign a lease for space at the local failed strip mall. Buy property. No matter how miniscule the gain, it will be a gain nonetheless. Afraid that the bank is going to default on your twenty grand in savings, and that FDIC - although mandated - will fail at the exact moment you need it to work? Got a savings invested in useless 401ks? Buy a hunk of ground - put your money in hard land. Gold mongers will tell you different, and you can bet, they will have all kinds of advice on how to get into the precious metals market. Anywho, if you are looking for something to put your dollars in before dollars become worthless, and will hold its value (or considering the current real estate situation, only increase in value) for years to come, go buy land. You can either A: resell it at a profit in ten years, B: resell it and break even in a few years, C: live off it for now, sell it later for a profit, or D: keep it forever, live off it, and love it - passing it on to the next generation and learning where you come from in the process.

Buy land, not gold.

Just a thought. I'm willing to listen to reasons for why I am wrong, as long as those reasons are researched and knowledgeable.

What do you think?"



Long story short, if you are looking to invest in something now, that will at least retain the bottom end of what it is worth 24 or more months from now, buy land. Find something that is a four or less hour walk to fresh water. It could be refuge in tough times.

Land is better than precious metals. The Earth is always a safe a bet, eh?

[Kelle Baley]

Originally Posted by historycircus

Alexandra,

Good points, but I disagree that there are no wild places left. Satellites can peek anywhere, but there exist many places that whatever is left of negative contol forces won't be paying attention to.

Alexandra does highlight a major concern - should we be considering large, fort like structures, or camoflaged structures that can somehow mask the resultant heat signatures (heat signatures will be what gives these hidden communities away from satellite imagery)?

Remember all that the ONLY KNOWN CAMOFLAGE AGENT IN OUR ARSENAL IS BY USE OF COPPER ITSELF. If no one has already mentioned this, copper hides infrared beams that satellites put out. Further; malevolent aliens that manipulate our psyche do so between the third and fourth dimensions. What can we do about this???? Think of your second dimension and sacral chakra (sexual) and your third chakra or solar plexus area. THis is where the most attacks and disturbances enter our very bodies. THis can actively confuse a person unawares especially if he/she goes into full animal survival mode. Take it from me, an avatar that has studied the human light fields for many years working one to one with perhaps 800 or so human mirrors. We can counter this. If you are not aware of this tactic playing out, you will soon.
I have encountered and fought many uninvited presences, most of them not human at all. I hope you hear this in the right way -as a survival technique. You must center your thoughts to your hearts and do so WITHOUT FEAR! you must actually OVERCOME FEAR. Then you must learn to meditate. Most survivalist become food easily by a bigger fish and those are the ones that hunt us between these two dimensions. So, if you are still listening to my words hear this: practice meditating formally for no more than ten minutes per day and use simple non forced breathing techniques to enlighten your mind set. The goal before you begin watching your inner screen movies (that always runs) is to simply empty your agenda and have the clear FEELING intent of surrendering your Mind link to your heart chakra for strengthening the inner vehicle. Overcoming fear is not an overnight learning but it does come in a short period of time by dealing with the truth in the inner worlds or astral world between third and fourth dimensions. THese malevolent beings are simply hungry and their food is fear itself-no kidding. A clear mind that follows the heart notices or remembers HOW TO APPLY ESSENTIALLY anything TO BUILD STRUCTURES AND MORE. There is just no substitute for a clear mind that follows the heart which sets up the proper use for grounding all thoughts into action. It becomes effortless including already having NOW supplies you will need and people that may have what you dont whom also know instintively how to link with you future wise. It is happening now anyway so good work doing this part for the few that hope to find you but have inner skills of seeing. THis is important if you decide not to listen and watch your dream time messages, etc.

I for one see already my link to the resources that my family will depend upon that I cannot provide them as I am a female not really trained in the arts of physical survival. He is an ex green beret with much more hidden training even after that for twenty years and is a fourth generation male from the same ways. In a dream four years ago (as an example of how this works) his own father made a contract with me to introduce me to him. I was invited to enter his life one year before we knew each other physically.
I was sort of contracted by his father to spiritually awaken him ( my now partner) and in return I am just now discovering what that return back to me and mine is- physical survival. He has already been a long time survivalist prepared for the worst on land and with facilities to shelter a large family there in mid america and another place way farther north than i can say.

All that i am saying here is to consider this active tool in your tool box as it clarifies and has structure with the Universal laws of attraction. Fear, if not overcome, draws the same no matter how you hide that fear. The third chakra is a receptacle and a gun for creating powerfully for what is needed by that human and it IS limitless. This solar plexus must be harnessed peacefully in order to draw the same from the Universe. It is this process of human electro-magnetic (emotion and mental mind thought) that if intrained cannot be overcome by another no matter the species.

Try this once you set up a safe space during meditation- see your bubble clearly around above and beneath your body and then empower it with the element of Copper to seal both the inner doorways or chakras and the outter bubble's edge where your energy ends -this is about 55 to 65 feet out. This did wonders for my psyche instantly creating peace in my whole house and included others in our house to experience the same feeling of peace!
Now I use the copper like this- i visualize as an addition a copper hour glass that amplifies from third solar plexus chakra above me and below me with the intent of deflection of all malevolent energy including those hunting for easy prey.

Aliens in 3d can see us on radar and send messages quite disguised as your own thoughts once they get in your head -this is easy during sleep time as most of us leave the body and research or link together only to return and find that we have been programed or attacked. THey use infrared beams to penetrate our thoughts and this is how they hear our thoughts too. THey have one very limiting ability; they lack the emotional body materia to combat us. THis is what makes us so dangerous to even them. We can hurt or hinder physically another human or non human by emotionally charged thoughts. If we are in control of that emotional body. See?.

WE are in a Universal lifeform that has not lost this important capability which the heart center operates. If mind link to the almighty follows the heart center and not the third chakra instinct before filtering in the psyche it can not be EVER tricked into forfeiting the vessel or vehicle to another malevolent or distorted thought by these predators among us human or not.

I would like to teach online but was alien contacted and told by a very big unkind and dark individual being (I sensed reptilian) that much mischief would befall my experiment via other vessels not as capable as I should I actually attempt such a class online. I did suddenly realize that the only way to act and get the same results was to meet in a group of only three, hold formal meditation and reach people in the third chakra without going the live feed. It is best if done at the same time each day but truthfully, my inner counsel says that our vessels can overcome the space time separation by honoring the freedom to hold that space with others linked into strong meditation with the personal intent to then increase your skills internally to the order described above. We will both have real time mind-link space shared third chakrally and more that cannot be described. Keep in mind that the more you practice empowering personal space the more invincible you instantly become. I am at your service and i will see any of you within when it serves you.

[bosr]

What does it mean when all I get is static when looking at inner screens?

I am asking this seriously btw.

[Shellie]

If going underground is the solution, then I think there will be more Turks who survive this than anyone else... all of central Anatolia is covered by awesome ancient underground cities with running water, food storage, circulating air, and booby traps.

[Sol Invictus]

You been to Cappadocia cities? Derinkuyu, its mind bogglingly awesome. 20 thousand people could live for a while hidden deep underground.

Question is, all that effort to seal themselves IN so some thing couldn't get them out...

Thats a mystery.

(Actually its not, makes perfect sense if you have a little bit of 'alternate' history' knowledge.

[Shellie]

I don't think we need alternate histories to explain it. There were invasions after invasions after invasions in that region. Mediterranean peoples went underground for safety- that is just what they did. Temples, churches, burial chambers.. it is all underground.

But I do find it interesting that UFOs are very popular in Turkey- more so than the rest of Europe and the Middle East. Alternative history, conspiracies etc is known by everyone!

[Kelle Baley]

Originally Posted by bosr

What does it mean when all I get is static when looking at inner screens?

I am asking this seriously btw.

Apologies for a late return. thanks for asking.

What my experience has taught me regarding the inner movie screen of your own third eye vision is this: The skill to receive or experience the now thoughts (that go on and on) as visuals is at first a game. Its like watching a five year old put on an act and if you wait patiently while sitting still and paying attention, you will then see what the mind is doing lose from the heart. When it is not loose, you will see imagery that reflects your feelings.

Your thoughts are always running and so are your movies of how you feel in the moment. The issue is that most of us get stuck in movies about the past and or the future. If the future seems to draw on you, static makes sense as your own consciousness has less ability to see the future than it does to review the past and in this very now your mind searches outwardly more than inwardly until you are walking in meditation which is saying that you are still minded enough to reflect inwardly for the purpose of self aware beingness -it is a way of being free.

Static as a result of watching the mind link and its activity is a game of letting go of outcomes. This is why many meditation techniques advise you to focus at first only upon breathing which brings you to feel the body. Feeling one part at a time actually slows down brainwaves which then allows you to self observe. once you do, you will likely then witness the state of your mind link which is always searching for God connection as a reality of experience. THis is what motivates many to want natural slow brain emissions like dopamine and endorphine releases -to slow the experience to then register your power to create or observe. This all increases the frequency of link to the source.

Breathe work, the body focus, then wait and get to a point of stillness first then see what happens. It is a process that you can try daily many times but not more than ten minutes at a time. The mind without practice of slowing tends to become like a fantasy horse that wants to be free and create higher. Without the slow down and the surrender to the heart this is always false truth in experience. Static just means that you have yet to engage the real deal objective -the process that is an art of stillness.

happy inner trails not trials

[bosr]

Originally Posted by Kelle Baley

Apologies for a late return. thanks for asking.

Static just means that you have yet to engage the real deal objective -the process that is an art of stillness.

Thank you for your answer. Practice, Practice, Practice

----------------------------------

Back to the topic.

There is a lot of talk now about an economic collapse resulting in a "bank holiday" in the near future. If these rumors are true then we need to step up our efforts to be prepared. I don't think we have enough time to build new fortified/defensive structures.

Any thoughts on this?

Sol Invictus,

I agree - plus, fire heat is quickly distinguished. Depth of the central hearth, seasonal zone, etc. are factors to consider. It will eventually heat up the earth above and will hold its heat for hours (at the least), concievably setting it apart from the rest of the countryside - a community sized heat signature. Oddly enough, I think winter camps would be OK, especially snow pack regions. It is the summer months that would give away locations from the sky.

Trishgate and Pineal: maybe you are connecting mentally with the future we are co-creating here.

EpiphaMe: seeds are essential. Seed bases, as has been discussed on other threads, need to be built now. Some good thread material exists on the types of seeds and foods out there.

Everyone else: fear is bad, and we should all lose it. However, preparedness is not fear. Actually, good plans can eliminate it, or effectively reduce it. UFOs and invading hordes of terrestrial madmen are all the same to me. They can go grok themselves.

Keep posting!

Originally Posted by historycircus

... preparedness is not fear.

That's right !!


Okay folks - my two cents (though most of what I can offer has already been covered):

Regarding guns (well, this much is true of any skill) ... they're no good if you're not practiced with them. I think most of us agree that time is short, so acquire a firearm & start practicing!


Sub-sonic rounds were mentioned as a way of not attracting attention - this is only true if your firearm is silenced ... all rounds make plenty of noise when fired, a silencer will mitigate that noise - but is obviously quite illegal without government issued permits.
If noise is a concern (and it may well be, at times) then a .22 long-rifle firearm may be your best bet. Both guns and ammunition are plentiful (here in the States, anyway), and they are commonly chambered in both rifles and handguns. This is a quiet round because it is relatively low-powered ... which emphasizes my first point - you must be practiced/accurate. An accurately placed .22 long-rifle round can be lethal at quite a long range.

Shotguns have been mentioned as bird-guns. A 12-gauge shotgun (again, a good choice due to availability of ammunition) can be a devastating short-range weapon to the largest of targets - with the proper choice of shells. My own experience may be limited compared to some others here, but my own collection includes equal parts #00 & #4 buckshot, and slugs. These are definitely not bird shot, but I don't intend to hunt quail with those rounds.

To the original question - the firearms that pack the most punch are high-powered (hunting) rifles (we can discuss handguns at another time). The obvious drawback to a high-powered rifle ... one shot will give away your position to anyone within, oh, say - a half mile or so. One thing to keep in mind here - the difference between a hunting rifle and an assault rifle is their designed purpose. A hunting rifle will efficiently take-down big game. An assault rifle is actually designed to wound, not to kill ... the thought behind this, in a military mindset, is: killing a soldier takes one man off the battlefield, wounding a soldier takes three men off the battlefield (the wounded man + two to carry him).
Should you be in the market for a high-powered rifle, I would suggest basing your decision as much on what is the most readily available ammunition in your area. Stop by the local Wal-Mart or sporting goods store & see what's stocked behind the counter. 30-06, 270, 300 are all more than adequate for anything less than the largest of big-game, and there are many, many others to choose from.


... enough for now ...


My best to everyone !!

[Sol Invictus]

Took £1000 out of the bank.

All the talk of a 'week long' bank holiday IF it is true will have monumental shockwaves through out Europe as well.

This is NOT good news at all.

However, if push comes to shove, I think alot of people will be just able to cope for long enough not to cause carnage. Longer than a week, then I fear it will all fall apart at the seams.

[Luigis Mushroom]

First of all I think people like us that are getting prepared now will have a responsibility to those that end up getting caught in the hysteria. Obviously this is within the boundaries of our own reach and security, but when thinking about various scenarios you first have to wonder how much attention should be paid on survival against the elements, and how much should be paid on survival against militia. Tips for self sustainable living and building communities are great, but it's kind of in the long run. I mean, first you got your basics (Water, Shelter, Fire, Food) but after that the primary concern for me personally would be maintaining awareness of who's in my territory, establishing networks with other people in order to create safe zones and escorting people through these safe zones.

Take South America into account during the 70s and 80s when nationalists started a fight against their own Federal Militia and United States Imperialism. On the Urban Level, they could hit hard and surprise the militia to do a lot of damage, but the feds need only capture one person and torture him in order to be able to round up all the rest and disappear them.

On the rural level, people all needed to congregate in communities, and again if the feds could kidnap just one, they could find the site and wipe everybody out.

And there's the question as to what degree of offense should be taken. People talk about bringing lot's of ammunitions into the wilderness and setting up castles or big communities, but what is that point in that? In the wilderness they can find you and bomb you to smitherines without any concern.

But in the urban areas, would-be insurgants are screwed the same, they may be able to pull off a couple good hits but they'll be found eventually. Take it from me, you can't play cat and mouse forever, eventually the cat always wins. There's no point in playing the prey the whole time.

So for those planning aggressive activities, firstly I recommend to spend most of your time in the wilderness and don't try to enter Federally Controlled Zones. In the wilderness, the most important thing is simply awareness of who's in the area, and because of that it's important to establish a network and type of communication with other settlers in the area. It's also important to train as many people as possible in combat. Furthermore, large communities in permanent dwellings are a bad idea. It's pretty much one or the other, if you choose to dwell permanently then maintain contact with other networks but keep a very low, non-assertive profile. If you choose to go with a large community, stay mobile.

Both would be necessary, one as a lookout and checkpoint for people escaping federal zones, the other for offensive purposes.

Networking is the key to maintaining security and a successive offensive, if you can't contact other people, you're just wandering around the woods with a bunch of guns. Remember to be devoted to a higher purpose, this is not you vs the world, it's the world vs the cancer that's developed on it.

[Sol Invictus]

http://www.aclu.org/natsec/emergpowe...g20021206.html

Now, stop with immediate effect any discussion of any guerilla activity. The Patriot act has very long arms, and the PTB have a very long reach.


I'm new here, but let me give you this advice. Stop with immediate effect. If this is a US server, it falls under US juridiction, as does every one entering a message on it. Review laws to ascertain this fact.

Secondly.

Whats coming down the pipe line will require us to hide, not fight any one. Nature and 'other forces beyond us and our control' will do the rest.

[Luigis Mushroom]

Okay my post was edited. I'm not speaking in reality, honestly I don't think Martial Law is going into effect in the United States. I was speaking hypothetically. Because of that, I wasn't worried about the patriot act because I don't consider myself an enemy. My friend is part of a branch of the military that hunts down people using tools the patriot act enabled them to use, and it's not as simple as bag and tag. There's a lot of red tape to slide through on these matters, and I doubt the US economy will hold out long enough for all 10 steps of destroying democracy to go into effect. If something were to go down, I think it's more likely that the banking families would bankroll and invasion of the United States rather than Martial Law.

As far as "other forces beyond our control" I don't understand, could you clarify? I'm not waiting for Jesus to rescue me, if I were in a situation where us civs were under attack, I would respond by maintaining a territory, changing that territory regularly, and helping people get to safe zones.

[Sol Invictus]

Red Tape?

Oh you mean 'hidden prisons', NSA 'black bag' troops, 'Civilian pilots' flying fake tail number aircraft and no over sight by Congress?

Yeah, if thats red tape, i'd hate to see free and easy operations.

Almost every single person in Gitmo right now was taken with no red tape involved. Bagged, tagged and in a prison suit within hours. Some in there were talking terrorism over the web.

Oh and as for no martial law in the USA? every one said Chile would never fall to a military dictatorship either, but it did and look where that led to.

[Luigis Mushroom]

First of all I'd like to know who is supposed to save us if martial law occurs.

Secondly, I'm not saying it couldn't, just that by most accounts it isn't yet. In Eastern Germany during the 80s, most people were not under Stasi surveillance, it's the fact that they all thought they were that made it effective.

What follows is my friend's answer to a question I posed about how I'm supposed to trust a government with no accountability.

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie [hard evidence] etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a **** where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

I know, it's not freedom, but it's not quite fascism yet.

[Sol Invictus]

Luigis,
I can respect the position of a ground trooper. Theres is a world of laws and rules.

However i am very very familiar with the dark side and how they operate.

Believe me when I say there is a world were men knock on doors and even scores, no questions asked.

Gitmo is full of people who never had a seconds thought that the long arm and mailed fist of the NSA and CIA could reach that far and so fast.

Something that I haven't seen discussed it the averaage person's appaling lack of physical fitness.

My partner and I have been planning for months, getting a BoB ready, practicing outdoor living skills, learning about native edible plants, and preparing mentally for a situation which would require us put our plans in motion. We do this not just for a potential apocalypse but also for any type of situation where we couldn't depend on the modern comforts of life.

One thing we didn't think about though in all our planning was the fact that with rather heavy backpack on my back I can't walk all that far. I'm not totally out of shape, I'm sure I could walk twenty miles easy, but to do it for several days/weeks/months at a time, I find that thought rather disconcerting. As our plan involves leaving the immediate area quickly, and staying mobile and as invisible as possible the fact that we aren't as physically fit as possible is a wrench.

But, we've recognized this rather blatant oversight and have started preparing. Walking with our backpacks on to try and get used to it, excesing more regualrly and generally trying to train our bodies as much as possible.

Some great advice in these posts and I will keep reading to learn as much as possible.

Sol and Luigi (I'm shocked by the bong in your avatar, I pegged the Mario Brothers as trippers, ya' know, because of the mushrooms),

Your exchanges here have forced me consider the possibility and necessity of aggressiveness. Again, as elsewhere, I find myself in agreement with Sol. If the PTB become our worst enemy in the near future instead of the environment, and we find ourselves in a geographic zone that attracts their scrutiny, offense will not be an option. This is the perfect opportunity for me to say that spiritual preparation for the future is just as important as the physical. Some of us here will find that the best laid plans might not matter at all. Offense would be pointless. That is not to say that offensive activity in the spirit of say, the American Revolution, is not an admirable thought, just merely impossible in the era of sattelites, laser and microwave weapons, and robots. Washington would have had his ass handed to him if Cornwallis had just one COMSAT - one of the most important factors that led to the colonial victory was that the Continental Army (a federalized collection of local militias) knew the terrain, while British forces (especially the officers - the tacticians) knew next to nothing about it beyond what others told them. If offense will be pointless, then it is violence for violence's sake - a paradigm of the past and present I personally don't want to be a part of in the future. I tend to think that the immediate survivors of whatever is coming will be too busy surviving to worry about such things - the generation after us will have to make those decisions for themselves.

With that being said, I am an advocate for defense, but in that regard, it is not the PTB I worry about. If a small village of fifty souls, armed with fouling pieces and a few rifles, confronts a well equipped outfit of PTB stormtroopers, well, they are screwed - that will be a moment where spiritual preparation is of the utmost importance. Defense preparations for these small communities, in my mind, will be necessary for dealing with other survivor bands who may be one can short of a six-pack. We know that there are some pretty unpleasant groups that have been preparing for the apocalypse since the first successful Russian nuclear tests in 1949. I'm not so much worried about the PTB as I am them. What happens when one of these well armed white supremacist groups crawls out of their fallout shelter, investigates the countryside, and finds a multiethnic camp close by? Maybe thier experiences in the hole will draw them closer to humanity and enlighten them, but more than likely, it won't, and the realization that they can do as they please may lead them to do ugly things. Keep in mind that the larger organized crime syndicates (street gangs, mafia, drug cartels, etc.) may also make it through to the other side - they are probably more well organized than most of us here on Avalon. In terms of arms and ammunition for defense, that is the sort of conflict I see: defending peaceful communites from other survivors. I just don't think that whatever is coming will selectively weed out the *******s, and leave the enlightened. Defense and hunting should be the goal in weapons preparation for the coming decade or two.

Verity,

You raise a good point. As a former fat guy, I can tell you, physical fitness will be paramount to survival. I tend to think that when the SHTF, however, lack of food, migration, and stress will do wonders for the obescity plague. If you are say, 100 pounds or less overweight, it only takes a few weeks of reduced caloric intake and increased physical activity to lose enough fat and build enough muscle mass to become reasonably fit. Hell, I lost ten pounds in two weeks by stopping my soda intake alone - PepsiCo, McDonalds, etc. probably won't have much of a business/distribution plan in place for the type of future all of us here expect. But you are right; those reading this thread now who are overweight should make the effort to become fit. Even if we are all wrong and the future is filled with peace, love, and teddy bears that shoot rainbows from thier eyes, they will live longer to enjoy it.

Thanks for the posts, and keep em' coming.

[Shellie]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I've thought about the "obesity plague" and have wondered something strange; what if this "plague" is really a collective unconscious preparation for what is to come? After all, fat is the only all-natural famine insurance we have.

It is my understanding that once the body has metabolized its intake, and produced "fat," that fat can only be remetabolized if ingested - a most yucky proposition. Fat is lost in the fitness process, not remetabolized, i.e., you lose it, not use it. Mammals that store fat for hibernation use it for warmth, not sustinance. We are not a hibernating species, so excess fat only hampers ideal biological functions.

[Swanny]

The fat people are going to struggle, but it's their own fault for over eating, or is it just because they are big boned??