For "Survivors" Eyes Only

[Luigis Mushroom]

First of all I'd like to know who is supposed to save us if martial law occurs.

Secondly, I'm not saying it couldn't, just that by most accounts it isn't yet. In Eastern Germany during the 80s, most people were not under Stasi surveillance, it's the fact that they all thought they were that made it effective.

What follows is my friend's answer to a question I posed about how I'm supposed to trust a government with no accountability.

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie [hard evidence] etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a **** where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

I know, it's not freedom, but it's not quite fascism yet.

[Sol Invictus]

Luigis,
I can respect the position of a ground trooper. Theres is a world of laws and rules.

However i am very very familiar with the dark side and how they operate.

Believe me when I say there is a world were men knock on doors and even scores, no questions asked.

Gitmo is full of people who never had a seconds thought that the long arm and mailed fist of the NSA and CIA could reach that far and so fast.

Something that I haven't seen discussed it the averaage person's appaling lack of physical fitness.

My partner and I have been planning for months, getting a BoB ready, practicing outdoor living skills, learning about native edible plants, and preparing mentally for a situation which would require us put our plans in motion. We do this not just for a potential apocalypse but also for any type of situation where we couldn't depend on the modern comforts of life.

One thing we didn't think about though in all our planning was the fact that with rather heavy backpack on my back I can't walk all that far. I'm not totally out of shape, I'm sure I could walk twenty miles easy, but to do it for several days/weeks/months at a time, I find that thought rather disconcerting. As our plan involves leaving the immediate area quickly, and staying mobile and as invisible as possible the fact that we aren't as physically fit as possible is a wrench.

But, we've recognized this rather blatant oversight and have started preparing. Walking with our backpacks on to try and get used to it, excesing more regualrly and generally trying to train our bodies as much as possible.

Some great advice in these posts and I will keep reading to learn as much as possible.

Sol and Luigi (I'm shocked by the bong in your avatar, I pegged the Mario Brothers as trippers, ya' know, because of the mushrooms),

Your exchanges here have forced me consider the possibility and necessity of aggressiveness. Again, as elsewhere, I find myself in agreement with Sol. If the PTB become our worst enemy in the near future instead of the environment, and we find ourselves in a geographic zone that attracts their scrutiny, offense will not be an option. This is the perfect opportunity for me to say that spiritual preparation for the future is just as important as the physical. Some of us here will find that the best laid plans might not matter at all. Offense would be pointless. That is not to say that offensive activity in the spirit of say, the American Revolution, is not an admirable thought, just merely impossible in the era of sattelites, laser and microwave weapons, and robots. Washington would have had his ass handed to him if Cornwallis had just one COMSAT - one of the most important factors that led to the colonial victory was that the Continental Army (a federalized collection of local militias) knew the terrain, while British forces (especially the officers - the tacticians) knew next to nothing about it beyond what others told them. If offense will be pointless, then it is violence for violence's sake - a paradigm of the past and present I personally don't want to be a part of in the future. I tend to think that the immediate survivors of whatever is coming will be too busy surviving to worry about such things - the generation after us will have to make those decisions for themselves.

With that being said, I am an advocate for defense, but in that regard, it is not the PTB I worry about. If a small village of fifty souls, armed with fouling pieces and a few rifles, confronts a well equipped outfit of PTB stormtroopers, well, they are screwed - that will be a moment where spiritual preparation is of the utmost importance. Defense preparations for these small communities, in my mind, will be necessary for dealing with other survivor bands who may be one can short of a six-pack. We know that there are some pretty unpleasant groups that have been preparing for the apocalypse since the first successful Russian nuclear tests in 1949. I'm not so much worried about the PTB as I am them. What happens when one of these well armed white supremacist groups crawls out of their fallout shelter, investigates the countryside, and finds a multiethnic camp close by? Maybe thier experiences in the hole will draw them closer to humanity and enlighten them, but more than likely, it won't, and the realization that they can do as they please may lead them to do ugly things. Keep in mind that the larger organized crime syndicates (street gangs, mafia, drug cartels, etc.) may also make it through to the other side - they are probably more well organized than most of us here on Avalon. In terms of arms and ammunition for defense, that is the sort of conflict I see: defending peaceful communites from other survivors. I just don't think that whatever is coming will selectively weed out the *******s, and leave the enlightened. Defense and hunting should be the goal in weapons preparation for the coming decade or two.

Verity,

You raise a good point. As a former fat guy, I can tell you, physical fitness will be paramount to survival. I tend to think that when the SHTF, however, lack of food, migration, and stress will do wonders for the obescity plague. If you are say, 100 pounds or less overweight, it only takes a few weeks of reduced caloric intake and increased physical activity to lose enough fat and build enough muscle mass to become reasonably fit. Hell, I lost ten pounds in two weeks by stopping my soda intake alone - PepsiCo, McDonalds, etc. probably won't have much of a business/distribution plan in place for the type of future all of us here expect. But you are right; those reading this thread now who are overweight should make the effort to become fit. Even if we are all wrong and the future is filled with peace, love, and teddy bears that shoot rainbows from thier eyes, they will live longer to enjoy it.

Thanks for the posts, and keep em' coming.

[Shellie]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I've thought about the "obesity plague" and have wondered something strange; what if this "plague" is really a collective unconscious preparation for what is to come? After all, fat is the only all-natural famine insurance we have.

It is my understanding that once the body has metabolized its intake, and produced "fat," that fat can only be remetabolized if ingested - a most yucky proposition. Fat is lost in the fitness process, not remetabolized, i.e., you lose it, not use it. Mammals that store fat for hibernation use it for warmth, not sustinance. We are not a hibernating species, so excess fat only hampers ideal biological functions.

[Swanny]

The fat people are going to struggle, but it's their own fault for over eating, or is it just because they are big boned??

[Shellie]

I don't think it will be "fat" people who struggle, it will be those who are totally out of shape. There are lots of overweight people who are physically healthier, stronger, and have more stamina than skinny people.

[Luigis Mushroom]

I don't suggest violence for the sake of violence, I suggest that defending fringe communities by sitting in one spot with a rifle is impossible and that certain tactics are necessary because otherwise you're just a target for some of the advanced artillery you mentioned.

The elements are no fun to deal with, but the best way to prepare is take a survival course, not read up on theories. I think that survival material is very prevalent in society today, you got Bear Grills and Survivorman on TV and numerous magazines and training courses available all over the United States. Anyone that wants to, in this time period right now, can learn how to handle the wilderness, you just need to actively learn it.

But one none of that teaches you is the unique situation we will be facing. In my original post, I stressed 3 things, 1. Awareness of the trespassers in your territory 2. Establishing relationships and communication with other settlers and safe zones 3. Helping other survivors to these safe zones.

We have a responsibility that for most of us will go beyond knowing how to survive the elements to helping as many other people as we can survive the elements. For 90% of people, defense will probably only be in regard to bandits and outlaws, and the PTB will be mostly focused on its own zones. However, defense against outlaws is still defense, and building camps in areas with no awareness, no friends, and no ammunition makes you a sitting duck.

My suggestions were not that we should take an offensive role, that's simply not the objective of project avalon, but that we should be prepared for the possibility of violence and no how respond appropriately, and the most effective ways are 1. Running away and 2. Ambushing. Defending yourself from your home base is not included on that list, and that is my main point about this.

I'm not sure I agree with the tone of your post. I agree that being overweight, suffering the resultant health problems, and having great difficulty if the SHTF should be viewed as a personal choice, and the overweight should own their mistakes.

With that being said, there are external factors that come into play, unrestrained and manipulative advertising, the addition of addictive chemical compounds, etc. have had their impact.

Ridicule is not what motivates people to change, and has no place on this thread.

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by bosr

With all the talk of IR tracking...

I'm curious what we should expect if marshall law were to become a reality? How much resolve would the authorities have in tracking us down? Given the numbers of deployed forces covering the entire populace of a country, would they have enough resources and desire to find all of us?

Metro areas should be fairly easy to contain, but what about rural areas?

In short, how concerned should we be?

Yea I wonder why anyone would bother tracking us down????
What would be the point in them doing that???
I have a stock of food and am able to defend myself from people that might want to take my food and water but why would a army/police force want to bother it's self with me???

[Swanny]

Personally I intend to travel down to Cornwall and live in one of the many holiday homes there before finding myself a nice yacht and heading off to warmer climates

Hopefully the **** wont hit the fan before the end of April when it starts to warm up a bit
In the mean time I will carry on getting myself ready

I don't think individuals who make through will have much to worry about initially from the PTB - they'll have herds to manage, and in the middle of something terrible. The little fish who get through the net will not command much interest.

But here's the thing. When the dust settles from whatever may come, the PTB - if they manage to make it through to the other side, and actually remain the PTB - will have a vested interest, as always, in dominating the Earth's surface resources. Individuals who make it through, and remain isolated, won't be of any real consequence. But the COMMUNITIES that form, on the other hand, will be raising a new generation - probably with an ideology in direct opposition to whatever remains of the dominant power structure. That is where concerns about sattelite imaging and such come in. Hiding and confrontation will be the only options, and as I and others have stated before, confrontation will probably prove futile.

[Kelle Baley]

You know, whatever predator of people is left will most likely have already chosen those they prefer in their cult to live 'ideally' underground. The enemy that lurks now are nefariously inspired humans as you are aware of. THey will not last long. This seems somewhat obvious if at all they actually do pull some dramas that the rest of the collective is forced to deal with economically.

The real and bigger issue will end in perhaps a decade or more from now -the cataclysmic effects of cosmic weather. They that devise to depopulate humanity are counting on the negative weather to wipe out the small colonies or people unprepared for such (explains most the underground cities).

Then, considerations for trade with those who have survived will begin. It will be a split in humanity..perhaps.

If not, we could all end up awakening on a level that one remembers fully personal and spiritual identity at the moment of the galactic crossing-after dec21, 2012 we will then experience the planet shift from planet X that because it is a brown dwarf smoldering not lighted sun, it will affect the earth as it passes through our solar system -this is a given. How will anyone hide from this? research the best source of this from the Gnostics via gnostic radio.com -all saturday talks on internet and free ipod download rss feeds. search out what they term planet X and call it Huron -they have records still that prove it happened many times. it is called the destroyer because it wipes away all deception from the astral field here and literally initiates the earth and the enlightened people here. You are correct in that you must prepare to survive these changes but inner preparation is the end all.

Becoming peaceful within is key to comprehending what is truth, period. Re-education can begin safely after this. if not, in this situation, survival on the surface without inner preparation is the ultimate in futility. Even the bible says that many ran to the caves and hill trying to escape these things of change that come and many were crushed inside the cities underground-built to escape the horrendous weather issue.

i have included a couple of links to see what I mean about learning more of the hidden historical to sense what comes and how to stand still to even know what is needed. While these vids may not seem more than a fictitious story, it is not. Also, it is understandably what we signed up for that has nothing to do with religion and i think comes from a source that left one of these illuminati cults. Remember that while you watch this (if you do) that it is a hidden inner view of history unfolding even now and that they whom are self proclaimed as the elite will fall into chaos -their plans and devices will not really work - that is why they are working day and night to force globally felt chaos. dont buy into any of it as thier time is short for being in power and they know it.
They are who kept all the higher knowledge hidden away from us while using many techniques to program each of us. you need to see the missing history lesson first. like the inter-terrestrials that live inside the earth that are humans (perhaps giants compared to us, but perfect DNA that are benevolent). They sent in the enlightened to help humanity ascend and then return back there to establish a new school of wisdom.

there are way more that are here and they are not all enemies.

try it! re-education takes only some observing while you gather supplies. you will be amazed. there are five parts of this series and they are all over an hour long. the following is the final two part video research about what that concerns us all.

part five -1 of 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ntis%205&emb=0

part five 2 of 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ntis%205&emb=0


the first one is this link;
part one movie;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...11327825391213

see the following as legend of atlantis part 1,2,3,4

[Peer]

Untill now I saw only Verity mention the personal and physical thing.
I've seen guns mentioned but that requiers aming skills and the knowledge how to clean the weapon.
A dirty weapon is more dangerous to you as to the opponent so we'll have to learn those skills as well.
How to shoot a bow. I would not suggest compoundbows. They may have more power but also need more maintenance and once it's broken it's very hard to fix.
Give a compound bow to an unskilled archer and you may find it in pieces within a minute.
1000 rounds for each weapon is nice but heavy.
Once the amo is gone the gun is useless but arrows can always be made/reused.
So train yourself to hit a remote target, be it with a gun, a bow, a slingshot, a stone or a boomerang.
Be sure you can handle a sharp knive and learn how to sharpen it.
Once you killed a rabbit, can you skin it and prepare it?
Clean it, cook it, eat it, use the skin for clothing by cleaning and preparing it.
Learn how to use a stick to defend yourself so take aikido lessons.
Good for your skills, for your mind, for your physical condition.
These are things you can already learn now. if you have to learn them when the heat is on you are too late and the people who know it are too busy surviving to teach you.
They say hunger is a good teacher but what if you are a slow learner?
Spend your next holiday to learn how to survive in the outdoors instead of going to Hawaii or Turkey because there is still time.
Learn to shoot and maintain a bow. Learn how to make bowstrings and their several knots and splicetechnics. Learn how to make wooden arrows.
Learn how to recognize several birds by their feathers, shapes and calls, animals and their footprints.
Learn how to run like hell if you find a bears footprint .
Learn how to fish, make rods, lines, hooks etc.
Realize that if we loose our civilization as we know it now and if we have to live in the open and if we will have to learn how to hunt again that that will not be for a certain amount of time.
Realize that there will not be a certain day that a message will come from headquarters telling us the good news that it's all over and that we can return to our happy homes again.
Realize that you have to build a new community, new city's, new schools.
Your iPod will not work anymore.
Music will be homemade and laws will no longer exist so new rules have to be made.
Realize that we will be in such a situation for at least a few generations and that you will not survive it, at least not see the new civilization and that you must trust the children that they will.

That's all for now

[Sol Invictus]

Obesity epidemic.

Want to know a secret? It was manufactured by the powers that be. Think I am kidding you? Do some research through medical papers (if you have access) and look at the effect of monosodiumglutemate on the livers, kidneys and pancreas of test animals.

Oh and whilst your at it, look at the effects of their blood sugars and prevelance of diabetes.

Then think long and hard as to why if these toxic effects were know, was it allowed en mass into the human food chain.

Fat unhealthy mentally sedated people cannot run far or put up much oppostition.

[Sol Invictus]

Peer,
now thats what i call a post!


People I meet out in the mountains often stop for a chat. Its amazing how setting up a bivvie on a mountain side, fire going and a brew on makes people feel 'safe'. Weird, but if I was sat there with nothing they would never stop to talk. My point being that they are curious as to why I am there. I explain a little (never too much) and have enetered into email discussions with a few of them.

I take this period as a time for learning, a time for deep reflection on whats within, and most importantly, a time to start letting go of what i think I need, and concentrating on what i know I will need in the future.

[Peer]

Would you leave your too fat grandmother behind?
No you wouldn't.
You would push her rollerchair, cursing but pushing hard.
I know you would...

And yes, you will have time to think again.
And peace will come by itself then.
It will not be so bad for us as we think.
Anyway, I am not afraid because I will survive I know and I will not mind being burried under a great oaktree.

Good point on bows Peer. Bows and arrows will be a lot easier to replace/maintain if guns are not availiable. Here are some DIY sites:

http://www.primitiveways.com/sapling_bow.html
No pictures, but very detailed.

http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-composite_bow.html
Same site, diffrent bow, some pictures.

http://www.onagocag.com/knapping.html
This is a good site for stone flint knapping. It has some good links. Natural history museum book shops are also great resources for one wanting to learn this skill, and some of the best can be accessed online. The National Museum of Natural History, and the National Museum of the American Indian are two I reccomend. But, as many tribal societies discovered at the onset of the fur trade, metal is really where it is at. Thin pieces of copper or iron will probably be the way to go.

http://www.primitiveways.com/fletching_by_hand.html
I didn't want to leave out fletching - making your own arrow shafts - since I'd come this far. Also taken from the Primitive Ways site.

If anyone finds anything better than this please post.

[Peer]

The good thing is that there will be enough game to hunt because pleasure hunting, the useless killing of animals just for the fun it will be over.

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by Peer

Would you leave your too fat grandmother behind?

Yes.

Sorry but the brutal truth of it is that if she was wheel chair bound, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

Times coming will require movement over heavy terrain and in as much silence as possible. Granny? I love you but not that much.

As for the bows, I totally agree - best if you get practise in now, and avoid as stated the compound bow (illegal here in the Uk as they can penetrate UK spec Police body armour).

[Peer]

It was more or less meant like a joke after your first post on obesitas.
Fortunately I don't have to worry about that anymore.
If it takes much longer they have to push my wheelchair or maybe I'll just stay put and stop a tank with it.

[Peer]

Hey historycircus,
those are good sites.
I live at the german border and I know it 's very popular in germany to go out in the woods and live primitively (for a day or three) and play around with selfmade bows and do targetpracticing.
I used to be part of that scene (I was third on dutch archery-championships once) and we always tried to come as close to reality as possible.
I also have friends who make their own bows and they do really good jobs.
I myself have always been busy making bowstrings and fletching arrows.
I have no time for that anymore at the moment but the skill is still there.
Very good material is also bamboo: Cheap, fastgrowing, strong and longlasting.

[Swanny]

I used to work in PNG as a rural water supply engineer
My advise to readers of this thread is set up a rain catchment system.
Rain water is great


What does PTB stand for??

Peer,

You sound like an expert! Can you contribute some more posts on Archery and the like? Whatever knowledge you have applies here, so spill it man! Remember, the info you share could save a life someday.

Thanks a lot Peer,

The HistoryCircus - because history is full of clowns.