How ‘Love’ and ‘Oneness’ Teachings Are Used to Disempower people.

[Gnosis5]

Spirit (not our spirit bodies) has experiences, then shuts down to sleep, and then wakes up again as if for the first time. Apparently this happens again and again similar to the death and rebirth of bodies.

This is recent data that came from one of my instructors so I cannot say that I have seen this for myself at this point.

360 degrees of separation.

I have more questions than answers regarding this subject. For example, does spirit experience during "sleep"?

havent understand anything you said,

that doesn´t mean that what you said is senseless, but i havent got it, seems confusing. A sleeping spirit?¿, im confused

i generally use the word spirituality, but i dont really know what a spirit is

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

havent understand anything you said,

that doesn´t mean that what you said is senseless, but i havent got it, seems confusing. A sleeping spirit?¿, im confused

i generally use the word spirituality, but i dont really know what a spirit is

Yes, I am ahead of myself here and have not yet gone and done my own looking. I use the word "spirit" to mean the original being we were and are, nothingness with potential.

Okay, so we contract to nothingness (sleep?) and then we break out to explore the potentials. We pulse.

But I will feel more comfortable talking about this once we have been able to see it for ourselves, but if we can imagine it then it is most likely true somewhere.

so seems you are differenciating between consciousness and unconsciousness, indeed.

that would have been easier to understand.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

so seems you are differenciating between consciousness and unconsciousness, indeed.

that would have been easier to understand.

Thank you for the input. Yes, if one thinks of consciousness and unconsciousness as being totally under control, which is not what we experience on this level.

[mudra]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Love and Oneness can be put on a vibratory scale that is mirroring the evolution of Consciousness.

On one side: Love for self , Oneness with ego , service to self
On the other side: Love for others, Oneness with all of creation , service to others

Some will regard Love for self and Oneness with ego a stable datum through which to live a happy and successfull life.

Some will regard Love for others and Oneness with all of creation their stable datum through which to live a happy and successfull life.

The middle way is where both sides can give a hand to the other and meet in kindness.
No holding to a truth should be so strong as to prevent our abilities to encompass larger perspectives.

Kindness
mudra

[Gnosis5]

Nice, thank you. My wish is that everyone finds the vehicle that brings them to that self-realization.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by mudra

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Love and Oneness can be put on a vibratory scale that is mirroring the evolution of Consciousness.

On one side: Love for self , Oneness with ego , service to self
On the other side: Love for others, Oneness with all of creation , service to others

Some will regard Love for self and Oneness with ego a stable datum through which to live a happy and successfull life.

Some will regard Love for others and Oneness with all of creation their stable datum through which to live a happy and successfull life.

The middle way is where both sides can give a hand to the other and meet in kindness.
No holding to a truth should be so strong as to prevent our abilities to encompass larger perspectives.

Kindness
mudra

Yes, mudra, no absolute truths, always ever higher truths. Stuckness on polarities, dichotomies, dualities must be dealt with.

[Heretic]

well folks I know ego has become a dirty word on this thread, and although I am not going to go kill myself because I want ego transcendent enlightenment, I also see ego as a gift

essentially if balance is our goal per the law of one then ego must be attended to just as much as the surrendered states of oneness

without the ego we would not see ourselves as separate at all

and without that separateness we would not have a dualistic experience we chose to have, it was planned was it not?

wasn't that the point in the first place, to embrace ego (division) to learn?

to die and be in the oneness, to only choose to incarnate again separated

and finally when incarnated...to only admonish that separateness and strive back towards unity

seems kind of like seeing the grass as greener on the other side of the ...er fence no matter which side of the ...er fence your on

no I don't propose feeding the ego only, but to ignore it seems counter productive, and like it or not we all do it anyway no matter how hard you try or like to think you dont, even those sexy monks

only the most dedicated can conquer it, and Deoxyan is simply questioning that ideology IMHO

I give, I love, I cherish, I am

these are good things IMHO and would be impossible without the ego

I also realize I could be absolutely wrong

my two cents

i must have achieved a way of life where the obssession with unity with the rest of the species has ceased to exist. I feel wonderful, because i don´t feel myself neither separate from anything, or united. This is the thing. The strings of harmony. Is like a breath of fresh air, and hope.

by one way, i can stablish deep connections with people, nature, the universe, whenever i wish, by the other way, i can just ignore that hability and relax having a beer. Oneness is good sometimes, bad sometimes. Love is good sometimes, bad sometimes. That´s all.

What i share here is just a tiny bit on how i live. This is what is called "sharing experiences", or sharing just a testimony on a life perspective. Whatever useful, take it, whatever useless, leave it.

Just use those simple premises.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

i must have achieved a way of life where the obssession with unity with the rest of the species has ceased to exist. I feel wonderful, because i don´t feel myself neither separate from anything, or united. This is the thing. The strings of harmony. Is like a breath of fresh air, and hope.

by one way, i can stablish deep connections with people, nature, the universe, whenever i wish, by the other way, i can just ignore that hability and relax having a beer. Oneness is good sometimes, bad sometimes. Love is good sometimes, bad sometimes. That´s all.

What i share here is just a tiny bit on how i live. This is what is called "sharing experiences", or sharing just a testimony on a life perspective. Whatever useful, take it, whatever useless, leave it.

Just use those simple premises.

*shrug*

sounds like balance to me, this is why your not feeling the tug towards one side or the other, IMHO you only feel that "tug" when your out of balance

when I am all balanced out I have found that life speaks to me

life throws people at me who need a answer or to teach me a lesson

and sincronisity is my guide

It´s balance from my perspective. I have always thought it´s the best way to live life except when you enjoy your passions.

Then, passions have to be controlled to some degree, never denied or repressed, and , all its fine. The more you train yourself the more you end controlling yourself to degrees you would have never imagined before without being actually an exercise of denial of your true human nature.

It´s like hearing good music, if you like it means it´s balanced and contains harmony.

[isotelesis]

Love is the essential glue which keeps the universe from disintegrating. Oneness makes our interactions coherent and internally consistent. The problem is not the ideas themselves, but how they have the potential to manipulate people towards ends which may not have been originally their own. If two or more souls decide to dissolve certain artificial boundaries at various degrees to fulfill whatever common ends they may have, that is their prerogative and can be quite enlightening and beneficial. It is as purifying as drinking water you see, just be careful of the water you drink, it may contain memes which are neither good nor bad in themselves, but could have parasitic effects. Being a 'para'-site isn't inherently bad btw, it depends on the role it plays in the host, they are often essential for various biological functions, absorb the insights which help and release the excess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guz6OOyNr3s

"An autotelic person needs few material possessions and little entertainment, comfort, power, or fame because so much of what he or she does is already rewarding. Because such persons experience flow in work, in family life, when interacting with people, when eating, even when alone with nothing to do, they are less dependent on the external rewards that keep others motivated to go on with a life composed of dull and meaningless routines. They are more autonomous and independent because they cannot be as easily manipulated with threats or rewards from the outside. At the same time, they are more involved with everything around them because they are fully immersed in the current of life."

Alexander Technique practitioners tell of experiencing increased autotelic behaviour. They spend time cultivating awareness of the "means-whereby" an activity is performed, rather than focusing on the "end".

[Circlewerk]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

It´s balance from my perspective. I have always thought it´s the best way to live life except when you enjoy your passions.

Then, passions have to be controlled to some degree, never denied or repressed, and , all its fine. The more you train yourself the more you end controlling yourself to degrees you would have never imagined before without being actually an exercise of denial of your true human nature.

It´s like hearing good music, if you like it means it´s balanced and contains harmony.

Hello Deo~

What part of you is "training" another part of your "self," and what is the thing that is being trained?

I am looking to objectively understand your perception of "you training you" I suppose.
Thanks for your time,
CW

Originally Posted by Circlewerk

Hello Deo~

What part of you is "training" another part of your "self," and what is the thing that is being trained?

I am looking to objectively understand your perception of "you training you" I suppose.
Thanks for your time,
CW

just the thing trained is the hability to control passions without denying them, or demonizing them; is just about enjoying passions but you are the one in control, not them.

[Circlewerk]

Originally Posted by Deoxyan

just the thing trained is the hability to control passions without denying them, or demonizing them; is just about enjoying passions but you are the one in control, not them.

Thank you Deo, yet a little further clarification might be helpful..

At the point that an individual has the rational, objective insight, to see that his passions are out of control, and that they need to be controlled,
what part of him does he see allowed for the lack of control in the first place?
The things a person is passionate about are incapable of taking control of the man.
Like alcohol, it is never the bottle of booze that forces the man to drink, it is the mans thoughts that drive him to drink or not.

And if he sees his perspective as conditioned, does he take responsibility, by rationally looking at the fact that there is a part of him that is easily conditioned? What part of a man is so easily hypnotized?

I mean, if we're going to break down the layers of man, there is mind, ego, animal instinct, brain, body, consciousness, soul, spirit,etc.. and the synergy of these..
Which layer or psychological part of a man, if not the ego, do you think, takes the bait in conditioning?
And why, is it difficult to break through these patterns?
What makes man cling to ideas about love or hate, unity or division? What makes him "cling" or fear detachment ?
It is not the ideas of love or oneness that are a problem, it is the clinging to the ideas of them, that causes static.

I find that emotional, psychological attachment to anything is harmful.
Because there is nothing new here.
It is recycled thoughts, at best, all hypothesis on what love and it's contrast actually are.
I believe none of it.
I am observing though, that it is the ego in man, that gets addicted to thought, emotion & belief, however unintentional.
The ego is not bad, or wrong for this..it simply knows no other way, while immersed in the irrational mind of man.
It has been discredited, it has been blown out of proportion, it has been glamorized..and still, we remain short sighted in our ideas of what we think we know, as far as the egos original purpose.
I am not for, or against the ego.
And I am not for, or against the theories that have been offered about it, thus far.
The moment I think I know, I have engaged my mind in the loop, where my ego has been accustomed to shooting it's dope of emotional attachment & psychological belief.

Your reply is appreciated,
CW

[alice goes nuts....]

hehe, did not read it all, but i m applauding anyway, so good some people are not totally brainwashed in this psyco oneness-love paradigme. i hope and will always fight beeing a part of this socalled oneness............

[beanny]

jenny ...i honestly suspect that if you could look a little deeper into what deox was trying to point out....
you would realize that she is in NO way, stating that love and oneness are not important....and the ultimate....but that we are as a race being indoctrinated by all corners into a Falseand omeness, beleife of love, hence stripping us humans of our very spiritual strengths
all the same pattern as the politics, the illuminati /system....etc
think a tad deeper into her point and you may very well realize....it is very much in pa with what this forum appears to have meant to be about

if anything warning us to BEWARE of FALSE love and spirituality values

how can that not be in pa with your project?

i am a man. lol

A

Originally Posted by Circlewerk

Thank you Deo, yet a little further clarification might be helpful..

At the point that an individual has the rational, objective insight, to see that his passions are out of control, and that they need to be controlled,
what part of him does he see allowed for the lack of control in the first place?
The things a person is passionate about are incapable of taking control of the man.
Like alcohol, it is never the bottle of booze that forces the man to drink, it is the mans thoughts that drive him to drink or not.

And if he sees his perspective as conditioned, does he take responsibility, by rationally looking at the fact that there is a part of him that is easily conditioned? What part of a man is so easily hypnotized?

I mean, if we're going to break down the layers of man, there is mind, ego, animal instinct, brain, body, consciousness, soul, spirit,etc.. and the synergy of these..
Which layer or psychological part of a man, if not the ego, do you think, takes the bait in conditioning?
And why, is it difficult to break through these patterns?
What makes man cling to ideas about love or hate, unity or division? What makes him "cling" or fear detachment ?
It is not the ideas of love or oneness that are a problem, it is the clinging to the ideas of them, that causes static.

I find that emotional, psychological attachment to anything is harmful.
Because there is nothing new here.
It is recycled thoughts, at best, all hypothesis on what love and it's contrast actually are.
I believe none of it.
I am observing though, that it is the ego in man, that gets addicted to thought, emotion & belief, however unintentional.
The ego is not bad, or wrong for this..it simply knows no other way, while immersed in the irrational mind of man.
It has been discredited, it has been blown out of proportion, it has been glamorized..and still, we remain short sighted in our ideas of what we think we know, as far as the egos original purpose.
I am not for, or against the ego.
And I am not for, or against the theories that have been offered about it, thus far.
The moment I think I know, I have engaged my mind in the loop, where my ego has been accustomed to shooting it's dope of emotional attachment & psychological belief.

Your reply is appreciated,
CW

mm hard to put an explanation to all the things you asked but at least i can try to answer something....

i think that basically when i talk of training myself and not being controlled by my passions, i just only mean to stay with a clear mind over them and see them for what they are: some kind of toy to play with. Imagine your passion is sex, you can become a sex addict, that is a passion out of control because it ends up doing harm to you, so that extreme is to be always avoided if possible. Then, to control a passion pure force of will is needed, that is what i mean by training myself, i only use pure force of will. Is like lift weighting... is always tough because one becomes used to do something and change habits is always tedious.

If you don´t have that..... good luck with any other strategy...

I think the main condition we experience is being humans. That then, we can coexist with other, but everyone has a relative perspective of the surroundings and none is equal to any other in anything at all. Our search is for a thing we can only imagine we have found, similarities amongst a sea of differences.

The irrational rationality of man is the spark he has to create things in the middle of infinity. Where no point of reference is given and humans feel orphan all their existences, until they found "something" wich makes them feel comfortable or similar, like god perceptions or life after death supposed experiences.

Originally Posted by Alexandra

I am curious as to our views about existance after death, since your ideas of life are individualistic.
Alexandra

My idea of life really has nothing to do with pure individualism. It´s about give the value that our standard physical and mental separatedness deserves for me.

in the possibility of life after death i think it can be that you go simply where you want to go with the tools you have developed throughout you life or lifes. That means you can only go where your tools (probably, spiritual ones) makes you able to go.

[Jenny]

Originally Posted by beanny

jenny ...i honestly suspect that if you could look a little deeper into what deox was trying to point out....
you would realize that she is in NO way, stating that love and oneness are not important....and the ultimate....but that we are as a race being indoctrinated by all corners into a Falseand omeness, beleife of love, hence stripping us humans of our very spiritual strengths
all the same pattern as the politics, the illuminati /system....etc
think a tad deeper into her point and you may very well realize....it is very much in pa with what this forum appears to have meant to be about

if anything warning us to BEWARE of FALSE love and spirituality values

how can that not be in pa with your project?

Because I value this thread and input highly I tried to encourage him to stick with his intentions. It was no warning, just a friendly reminder.
There were some minor irritations in the past. And I dont want that to obstruct his views and his expression.



Jenny

[whitecrow]

I don't know if "Love and Oneness" teachings disempower people or not. I suppose anything can be abused. But I am sure that the real things, not just "teachings" about them, can never be anything but positive.

[capreycorn]

Equality today means sameness rather than oneness.


Erich Fromm (1900 - 1980)



oneness teachings are not good. they can make us hate each other more than before... we should let it all come naturally.

it begins with raising a child.



with the link below, scroll down and read from 1.4 and 1.5 downwards...if that was good read all of it!

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/health...-parenting.htm

[taomation]

We are one. Even fundamental physics tells us that. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but all events are neutral and some, if not a lot of people will pervert the truth for their own ends and ego, but that doesn't mean that it isn't still the truth.

People's left brains, (egos) will play all kinds of tricks to keep them from accepting what is true and it makes them want to lash out, becasue of fear.

As someone else said on this thread, "enjoy the illusion while you can."