Zacharia sitchin is not legitimate

[Shellie]

My dad was really into Sitchin and sent me the first of his books. I didn't even get through it. As a theoretical linguist, grad student, and employee of the library, I just could not give any legitimacy to someone who

1) based an entire story out of his own translations of something no one else has ever translated or read before

2) had NO proper references to ANYTHING except himself

3) all of the illustrations were just that- illustrations. There were very little photos and everything else was hand drawn. We are expected to take his word for it.

[carcharodon]

influnces of a planetary body on other known solar sys bodies would allow to pinpoint the location of planetx. where are its pics? we're able to get photos of other solar sys planets, why can't we get the one from planetx?

[beanny]

fair enough shelly, (meaning mine?)
i cant say i "know" if he genuine or not....

but to say there is no proof. is never enough to negate information, just cant prove itself..
life HAS proved that much to all of us on somel evel or other
some of you whom experience life,largely through intuition will probably get my drift.
as we all know.....truth will eventually emerge to the forefront,
which ever it is
as the veil of .... lies slip away....

i guess we can keep seeking and seeking and listening inward....

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Shellie

My dad was really into Sitchin and sent me the first of his books. I didn't even get through it. As a theoretical linguist, grad student, and employee of the library, I just could not give any legitimacy to someone who

1) based an entire story out of his own translations of something no one else has ever translated or read before

2) had NO proper references to ANYTHING except himself

3) all of the illustrations were just that- illustrations. There were very little photos and everything else was hand drawn. We are expected to take his word for it.

It's like proving the bible with the bible isn't it

[Rareheart]

This is "wisdom". (imho)

Another thing bothers me, and that is his logic. Too much is based on "ifs"... If this is true then that is true... and if it is true then this... than this... All you have to do is prove one "if" wrong early on, and the entire structure collapses.

All logic is based on "ifs", and "truths"...the snag is "proof".
Written words will never "prove" anything...
Outside a court of law, anyway...and, we're all very aware of the truths spewed and digested in courts every day.
(again, my humble opinion)

All writing is merely opinion...waiting for approval.

[spiritual_wanderer]

You know, I can't say whether Sitchin is disinfo or legit. But I find him and his work very interesting and therefore, I'll read it sometimes. No one should blindly follow anyone. But its important to have info of all kinds out there available to let everyone decide what is for them and not. Since I believe in the ancient astronaut theory, I find his intriguing.

[Brinty]

Originally Posted by spiritual_wanderer

You know, I can't say whether Sitchin is disinfo or legit. But I find him and his work very interesting and therefore, I'll read it sometimes. No one should blindly follow anyone. But its important to have info of all kinds out there available to let everyone decide what is for them and not. Since I believe in the ancient astronaut theory, I find his intriguing.

I agree with you spiritual wanderer. It is best not to dismiss a theory out of hand just because it doesn't fit in with your own concept of "reality" or "truth'. It is advisable to keep an open mind - but not so open that you lose your brains when you bend over. Having to clean egg off your face after taking a public stand against a particular theory only to find that same theory was a fact, could lead to a lot of embarrassment.

Like the scientists many years ago who ridiculed people who claimed that stones had fallen from the sky. "Stones? Falling from the sky? Come on now, what's holding these stones up in the sky? Don't talk such nonsense!" Imagine their shock when a shower of meteorites occured during one of their conferences. I reckon an awful lot of frantic face cleaning went on after that.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by Brinty

I agree with you spiritual wanderer. It is best not to dismiss a theory out of hand just because it doesn't fit in with your own concept of "reality" or "truth'. It is advisable to keep an open mind - but not so open that you lose your brains when you bend over. Having to clean egg off your face after taking a public stand against a particular theory only to find that same theory was a fact, could lead to a lot of embarrassment.

Like the scientists many years ago who ridiculed people who claimed that stones had fallen from the sky. "Stones? Falling from the sky? Come on now, what's holding these stones up in the sky? Don't talk such nonsense!" Imagine their shock when a shower of meteorites occured during one of their conferences. I reckon an awful lot of frantic face cleaning went on after that.

With comments like this I fear some of us are missing the point of the thread. Sitchin's work hasn't been dismissed or ignored by most of it. It has been thoroughly disporven. (And I don't mean by mainstream debunkers, I mean by truthseekers). Of course we have to keep an "open mind" to things even if they don't fit our concept of reality. (but not too open, because we need to keep our minds guarded, and not open to psyops programming). But keeping that "open mind" doesn't make fantasy real. That doesn't make counter-intelligence that is designed to disable the victim, truth.

Idenifying counter-intelligence and seperating fact from fiction is a must in the process of waking up. Step 1 is awareness, but Step 2 is understanding. The understand stage takes the longest, and is often where most people get caught up, and end up chasing their imagination around in circles, because that's where the most counter-intelligence pysops operations are working. Just becoming aware of this "new world order" is not enough, it's very easy to become confused and buy into falsified information when trying to understand and lead off into the wrong direction. We must understand it first to fix it, which leads us Step 3, which is once we understand, then action can be taken, in whatever form it needs to be taken - and it will be self evident at that point what that is - whether it be waking others up, or whatever.

[spiritual_wanderer]

There are truthseekers of all kinds and they often disagree with each other. Who's to say one is right or the other wrong? People can have a different interpretation of the same data.

Red flags go up when one person is saying they have the answers. What I respect is people like David Icke who say, ok here is some information I have to share with you, now it is up to you to decide if it's for you or not.

Project Camelot is like that. They don't claim to have the answers, they're just trying to share the enormous wealth of ideas with the masses. Is all of their info correct? I would be suspicious if anyone claimed it was.

It is up to each individual to take what works for them and discard the rest. We can even learn from "disinfo."

[Doom]

Originally Posted by spiritual_wanderer

There are truthseekers of all kinds and they often disagree with each other. Who's to say one is right or the other wrong? People can have a different interpretation of the same data.

Red flags go up when one person is saying they have the answers. What I respect is people like David Icke who say, ok here is some information I have to share with you, now it is up to you to decide if it's for you or not.

Project Camelot is like that. They don't claim to have the answers, they're just trying to share the enormous wealth of ideas with the masses. Is all of their info correct? I would be suspicious if anyone claimed it was.

It is up to each individual to take what works for them and discard the rest. We can even learn from "disinfo."

I agree generally, but you have to draw a line, you can't just believe things because someone put the information out there and said, "decide if it's for you or not".
Many things can be proven - just because things can be interpreted differently, doesn't make all those interpretations correct. People can agree to disagree, but that still doesn't make fantasy truth. And when you look to the origins of a lot of this information(such as sitchins), it is not factual and was purposely designed, put out, and pushed, to mislead the public. It also makes truth associated with fiction, so that when you try and communicate to others about truth, right away they think of all the fictional lies attatched to the term "conspiracy" like reptilians. You see, it discredits the truth when it is assoiciated with fiction. We as truthseekers, must work together, to expose the counter-intelligence, because we are losing many minds to it, that think they are waking up. We still have a good chance to save those minds since they were at least willing to have the courage to not to go along with the normals.

also, I must comment that you must be very careful with David Icke ( http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...9&postcount=19 ), he puts out a lot of truth to suck you in, but then spins it into outerspace with fiction and new age philosophy. Whether he does it on purpose or is just mislead himself is another question(i would suggest a little of both), but please, all I am asking really is for people to at least look into the some of the information and links I have provided on the new age and counter-intelligence. AS well, I'm not saying to not look into David Icke's information, but at least get all sides of the story.

I feel the same about project camelot. I don't doubt that Kerry and Bill might be genuine, but that doesn't validate their information, or their sources' information.

Most people in this "truth movement" are eating everything up that's put out there without relizing that some of the information out there that is supposedly freeing them is just trapping them into a another cage. In fact there is an entire conspiracy culture, put out there by the establishment, created from the top down, for the prupose of discrediting the real truth. Be aware.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Doom

I agree generally, but you have to draw a line, you can't just believe things because someone put the information out there and said, "decide if it's for you or not".
Many things can be proven - just because things can be interpreted differently, doesn't make all those interpretations correct. People can agree to disagree, but that still doesn't make fantasy truth. And when you look to the origins of a lot of this information(such as sitchins), it is not factual and was purposely designed, put out, and pushed, to mislead the public. It also makes truth associated with fiction, so that when you try and communicate to others about truth, right away they think of all the fictional lies attatched to the term "conspiracy" like reptilians. You see, it discredits the truth when it is assoiciated with fiction. We as truthseekers, must work together, to expose the counter-intelligence, because we are losing many minds to it, that think they are waking up. We still have a good chance to save those minds since they were at least willing to have the courage to not to go along with the normals.

also, I must comment that you must be very careful with David Icke ( http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...9&postcount=19 ), he puts out a lot of truth to suck you in, but then spins it into outerspace with fiction and new age philosophy. Whether he does it on purpose or is just mislead himself is another question(i would suggest a little of both), but please, all I am asking really is for people to at least look into the some of the information and links I have provided on the new age and counter-intelligence. AS well, I'm not saying to not look into David Icke's information, but at least get all sides of the story.

I feel the same about project camelot. I don't doubt that Kerry and Bill might be genuine, but that doesn't validate their information, or their sources' information.

Most people in this "truth movement" are eating everything up that's put out there without relizing that some of the information out there that is supposedly freeing them is just trapping them into a another cage. In fact there is an entire conspiracy culture, put out there by the establishment, created from the top down, for the prupose of discrediting the real truth. Be aware.

Well I mostly agree with you but your comparison of David Icke and Project Camelot doesn't ring with me so to speak. First of all David Icke is not "a style of truth seeking". He is just a guy who gathered a lot of research of others like every researcher in this field that makes his research prone for disinformation that the likes of Sitchin and Maxwell put out there. His thoughts on reptilians are not unique to him. There are a lot of people talking about them, even Bill Deagle (if you've watched the last project camelot interview with him). I am not sure if I should label "the reptilians" as fiction because I don't have any means to disprove them. It could be a disinfo project perhaps but that has to be researched and documented.

Project Camelot are just two people who interview whistle-blowers or am I getting something wrong here. I mean I have heard tons of bs. from some whistle-blowers (mostly regarding Planet X and Sitchin) but I didn't judge Project Camelot for these testimonials as I have not judged David Icke for Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa (not that I am claiming they are bs. but they can't put proof on the table like Cathy O'Brien which would be a good candidate to interview by the way).

--Rant--
The main thing here that creates problems is, people like to "give their back to someone with full power of their trust" and "people tend to like to get hung up upon those people and the belief associated with them even if they are proven wrong in some aspect". These aspects make it impossible for finding truth especially if you are debating with guys that say "o.k. that is your truth and this is mine". I mean I read such sentences over and over and it still makes me very sad. It just reeks of programming.

Even though we don't know much and we can only perceive 0.05% or something of the universe through our eyes there still is much fact to prove something to go around. There are definite truths people which are embedded in many things from ancient religion to modern disinfo agents. We have to filter it from these sources and at least pick up a damn book to try to prove the claims made by any one of them. Well enough ranting. You've got my point.

--Rant Over--

The conspiracy culture is definitely an important subject since we are getting to become a new society almost with all this ground crew and project venus going (not that I want to be in any one of those societies besides for debating). I think that most people who think they are "awakened" will just jump at the idea of "a solution" which is of the "problem-reaction-solution" cycle that David Icke likes to talk about very much. These in effect will create a new post-industrialization mass who this time are not for nationalization but globalization disguised under the new age and projects like the venus project who both boil down to the Georgia Guide Stones and of course the mystery religions.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by elirien

Well I mostly agree with you but your comparison of David Icke and Project Camelot doesn't ring with me so to speak. First of all David Icke is not "a style of truth seeking". He is just a guy who gathered a lot of research of others like every researcher in this field that makes his research prone for disinformation that the likes of Sitchin and Maxwell put out there. His thoughts on reptilians are not unique to him. There are a lot of people talking about them, even Bill Deagle (if you've watched the last project camelot interview with him). I am not sure if I should label "the reptilians" as fiction because I don't have any means to disprove them. It could be a disinfo project perhaps but that has to be researched and documented.

Project Camelot are just two people who interview whistle-blowers or am I getting something wrong here. I mean I have heard tons of bs. from some whistle-blowers (mostly regarding Planet X and Sitchin) but I didn't judge Project Camelot for these testimonials as I have not judged David Icke for Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa (not that I am claiming they are bs. but they can't put proof on the table like Cathy O'Brien which would be a good candidate to interview by the way).

--Rant--
The main thing here that creates problems is, people like to "give their back to someone with full power of their trust" and "people tend to like to get hung up upon those people and the belief associated with them even if they are proven wrong in some aspect". These aspects make it impossible for finding truth especially if you are debating with guys that say "o.k. that is your truth and this is mine". I mean I read such sentences over and over and it still makes me very sad. It just reeks of programming.

Even though we don't know much and we can only perceive 0.05% or something of the universe through our eyes there still is much fact to prove something to go around. There are definite truths people which are embedded in many things from ancient religion to modern disinfo agents. We have to filter it from these sources and at least pick up a damn book to try to prove the claims made by any one of them. Well enough ranting. You've got my point.

--Rant Over--

The conspiracy culture is definitely an important subject since we are getting to become a new society almost with all this ground crew and project venus going (not that I want to be in any one of those societies besides for debating). I think that most people who think they are "awakened" will just jump at the idea of "a solution" which is of the "problem-reaction-solution" cycle that David Icke likes to talk about very much. These in effect will create a new post-industrialization mass who this time are not for nationalization but globalization disguised under the new age and projects like the venus project who both boil down to the Georgia Guide Stones and of course the mystery religions.

Well, I pretty much agree, except on some of the details, such as david icke, project camelot, project venus, etc..

I don't want to argue back and forth about them, since I have already provided information that opens doors to show how these projects/researchers are counter-intellgence. But I'll just leave it with that as to not argue about specifics. We'll have to agree to disagree for the time being. My point is to just make sure we research both sides of the story, just because the people leading these projects, etc, may be genuine, but that does not validate the information. I'm not saying it isn't possible that some of the information is true, but when you look deeper into the origins of the information, and conspiracy culture creation from the establishment, questions have to be raised. They mix truth with fiction and push it so that people discredit the truth - and some of these projects/researchers, genuine or not, have bought into a lot of it - and have effectively become tools for the establishment, by disabling the minds of the victim by spinning the truth into outterspace.

If you research some of the links I have provided throughout the thread, it should at least open some doors to the reptilian, and alien dis-info. I never said Icke started the reptilian information or was the only one. He is just a superstar who champions it. It is an establishment created culture, well funded. Even in the middle ages they used the same techniques to do with making the public believe in reptilian/demon creatures. You can read about all of this and more if you take the time to do research on the new age religions and culture creations involving cia,mi5,mi6, crowley, blavatsky, etc. Like I said before I have provided links that will at least get one started on some of this info.

[realitydesign]

ZS is a pioneer. He was one of the first to get this ball rolling 30 years ago. He is not disinfo - if anything he may be off on a few points but he himself believes and stands behind his work. Read through the guy's credentials.

At the very least he has done so much to open the minds of humanity greatly.


I believe his basic premise: earth history is riddled with ET (if you can call them that) involvement. Is EVERY detail correct?... probably not but give the guy a break...

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Doom

Well, I pretty much agree, except on some of the details, such as david icke, project camelot, project venus, etc..

I don't want to argue back and forth about them, since I have already provided information that opens doors to show how these projects/researchers are counter-intellgence. But I'll just leave it with that as to not argue about specifics. We'll have to agree to disagree for the time being. My point is to just make sure we research both sides of the story, just because the people leading these projects, etc, may be genuine, but that does not validate the information. I'm not saying it isn't possible that some of the information is true, but when you look deeper into the origins of the information, and conspiracy culture creation from the establishment, questions have to be raised. They mix truth with fiction and push it so that people discredit the truth - and some of these projects/researchers, genuine or not, have bought into a lot of it - and have effectively become tools for the establishment, by disabling the minds of the victim by spinning the truth into outterspace.

If you research some of the links I have provided throughout the thread, it should at least open some doors to the reptilian, and alien dis-info. I never said Icke started the reptilian information or was the only one. He is just a superstar who champions it. It is an establishment created culture, well funded. Even in the middle ages they used the same techniques to do with making the public believe in reptilian/demon creatures. You can read about all of this and more if you take the time to do research on the new age religions and culture creations involving cia,mi5,mi6, crowley, blavatsky, etc. Like I said before I have provided links that will at least get one started on some of this info.

I agree with you to disagree then I loved that sentence about how they put a veil on truth by ignoring it and the ignorant sheople that follow them put the same veil on their heads. I'll have a look at your links Doom and I have looked through people's research on the new age (some radio programs and articles from cooper, frank lordi, chris white) If I have the time I want to read Constance Cumbey's and Blavatsky's books on the matter to at least see what people get so fascinated about. I just see the same pattern in all of this. If someone gets closer to the truth something else tries to cover up that fact and focus you/me to some crazy bs that you can't control or reach. It's also interesting to see that these people defend their stand point that they researched for 40 years these things. I mean you have to be quite the blazing moron or get paid for in some aspects to do the same errors for 40 years.

Take Care

[Heretic]

you know

we, most of us know jack ****

at BEST we have fragments of information here and there gathered over years of toil and a constant change in what we see as right or wrong

we weave them in to black and white realities that we can accept and be comfortable with

now I dont know about you, but when a deep insider comes out with earth shattering info like this (yes I too discounted Sitchin as "the enemy" and you will see this in my previous posts) I tend to start questioning everything I know and begin research again to try and discern the information for myself

this is new information someone is telling you, I suggest digesting it because ignoring it or just turning it off will do nothing to increase your knowledge base as it will only breed info stagnation

IMHO it would not be prudent to discount something outright based on assumption and conjecture, especially someone else's work from a website, who could be just as corrupt as you suspect Sitchin to be

I am aware of Arizona Wilder and have taken it into account and there are many possibilities to why she saw what she saw (IF she saw...corruption could be anywhere)

let your knowledge evolve and don't shut out new info to only preserve the old

where would you be now if you had been constantly rejecting new info?

BTW I have no idea if he is right or wrong so I am not selling anything

Yet I do realize I am an armchair researcher with no ties to any black world or privy to insider info, and when someone with clout and a background to know such things comes out and informs me of something I had once discounted...

I will not accept it because they told me so

but

I also will not discount it because someone else told me so

think for yourself

in any case, a wise person in this site mentioned on another thread:

what may be garbage or disinfo for you could be a catalyst for an awakening for another

none of you have proof either way

are you here to learn information or just to blindly judge it?

Its been interesting watching this conversation go as it has. Its been awhile since i read Sitchin's material and and i plan to reaquaint myself. There alot more info out there regarding Nibiru and the Anunnaki and I hope to add more to this topic.

[motov]

delighted to see that im not alone about sitchin, as i thought i was for years...

[Brinty]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I have no idea if he is right or wrong so I am not selling anything

Yet I do realize I am an armchair researcher with no ties to any black world or privy to insider info, and when someone with clout and a background to know such things comes out and informs me of something I had once discounted...

I will not accept it because they told me so

but

I also will not discount it because someone else told me so

think for yourself

in any case, a wise person in this site mentioned on another thread:

what may be garbage or disinfo for you could be a catalyst for an awakening for another

none of you have proof either way

are you here to learn information or just to blindly judge it?

I'm with you all the way Heretic.

I'm reminded of how Adamski was rubbished back in the 50s and 60s but now, some of what he wrote about his experience is being confirmed. The same goes for Immanuel Velikovsky around that same period of time. Once again, many of his outrageous claims have been proven.

So, exercise caution in what you accept as truth, but don't reject anything out of hand just because it doesn't fit on your page. It may just turn out that you need to get a bigger book.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by Brinty

I'm reminded of how Adamski was rubbished back in the 50s and 60s but now, some of what he wrote about his experience is being confirmed. The same goes for Immanuel Velikovsky around that same period of time. Once again, many of his outrageous claims have been proven.

So, exercise caution in what you accept as truth, but don't reject anything out of hand just because it doesn't fit on your page. It may just turn out that you need to get a bigger book.

Exactly. The truth is very outrageous - but that doesn't make anything that is outrageous, truth. My fear is that people haven't read the "bigger book" into culture creation, and the new age. Because I feel that if people do, they would be more equipted to identify dis-information. For example, I think I mentioned this earlier, the new age coined the term "open mind", and it doesn't actually mean to be open to information that doesn't fit your world view - it means that they want your mind open to programming. So open that you'll accept anything as reality. Anything they want us to believe. The new age culture was set up to bring in a new religion, and it was set up to first be accepted by those who don't go along with the majority. It is designed to destroy the mind of those who question their percieved reality. And it works, because most who buy into the new age, don't even know they are new agers.
As Adam Weishaupt said:
"Oh, foolish man, what can you not be made to believe?"


You see they have a very old system, and this is the age/time where they are bringing that system down and bringing a new one in. And because of this they are the ones who are first to put out dis-info that shows some truth(how the old system was a con-to gain followers), and then mixes it with fiction and new age beliefs, so that when others come out with the real truth afterwards, it is discredited and associated with the ficitonal conspiracy culture that they created that helps lead us down the path to their new system.

first they introduce the cultures by setting up their foundations with massive funding using music, movies, books, etc., and once those are established, and people fall into them, the people become conditioned to accept the new system. And so you got all these confused truth seekers buying into one or more of these some of these top down created conspiracy sub-cultures, thinking they are opposing the establishment, when infact, the culture is just perpetuating the new world order into it's final stages.

[Doom]

Originally Posted by Heretic

what may be garbage or disinfo for you could be a catalyst for an awakening for another

disinfo is not going to wake anybody up. of course things that some people might percieve as disinfo , compared to what others percieve as dis-info will be different. but that doesn't make dis-info truth. We have to work together to determine what really is dis-info, and help others to see that - so that people who "wake up" don't fall for all the psyops set up to misdirect them.

Originally Posted by Heretic

none of you have proof either way

actually there is, that is the point - there is proof that sitchin's info is false, from the very fine details to the entire broad general ideas and beliefs proposed by such theories. The proof is in his own work - it doesn't add up. It can only add up when fantasy and falsified information is added. As well, there are many declassified cia documents showing how the new age was set up and would be used(including such far out techniques as making the public believe aliens rule the world), as well it would be benificial to study all other history involving the new age culture creation, such as blavastky's writing, crowley's, etc.

Originally Posted by Heretic

are you here to learn information or just to blindly judge it?

I believe I have responded to comments like this a few times already in this thread - No one is blindly judging, I am advocating looking into all sides of the story rather than just sitchin's. I have researched sitchin thoroughly for many years. The problem is people aren't learning about the new age, and conspiracy culture creation - and because of it they are buying into lies, that are only backed up by other lies. It's a major psyops to keep us from the real truth.

Originally Posted by Heretic

let your knowledge evolve and don't shut out new info to only preserve the old. where would you be now if you had been constantly rejecting new info?

No one is rejecting new info, in this case with sitchin, it has not been rejected, but researched and studied and then objected on as being false. This is not mainstream debunking like popular mechanics i'm talking about either, this is truth research that has exposed how this culture has been set up to mislead us and how sitchin is a part of it.

Originally Posted by Heretic

IMHO it would not be prudent to discount something outright based on assumption and conjecture, especially someone else's work from a website, who could be just as corrupt as you suspect Sitchin to be

If you are refering to the cuttingthroughthematrix.com website and Alan Watt, you are correct, no one should listen to anyone without researching the information for themselves. but all this is all researched and referenced in major publications, declassified CIA documents, etc. It stands on it's own without a medium to tell you about it, I have simply found Alan's website to be the most direct, uncensored source - acting as a short cut to start people out - to introduce them to books and these areas of study that people aren't doing for themselves - so what people actually need to do is research the books, blavatsky's, crowley's, declassified CIA documents about New Age culture creation, etc. for themselves. And I am just trying to get people to do the same thing as Alan is trying to get people to do, research things for themselves, eliminate the medium and see what the information really says.



I'm just asking that people learn more about the techniques used to control us, before thinking they have found solutions in some of these "theories" such as sitchin's. Because the more you learn how they control us, the better you are able to not buy into any of these scams. once aware, we have to get a better understanding of what we are aware of, before we can fix anything.

Based on your logic, you should at least research more into what I'm saying, considering you have already researched sitchin's side of the story, and most likely already know from being bombarded the mainstream's side of the story (imho the mainstream pushes sitchin's side of the story as well as the mainstream debunker's side of the story - they play off each other). Remember, there's always more than 2 sides to the story, and the answer is never black and white, but usually grey.

Even if I was wrong, and that me asking people to look into how Sitchin is illegitimate might be dis-info itself - is it not at least as worthy of being looked into as Sitchin's? The truth is tough to swallow, and most of us WANT to believe in these fantastic stories put out there that aren't true at all(like Sitchin's) - we've been trained to do so by fiction, by predictive programming.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Doom

disinfo is not going to wake anybody up. of course things that some people might percieve as disinfo , compared to what others percieve as dis-info will be different. but that doesn't make dis-info truth. We have to work together to determine what really is dis-info, and help others to see that - so that people who "wake up" don't fall for all the psyops set up to misdirect them.

Dis-info does wake people up, otherwise how do you account for all the people here who have different backgrounds based on different info/dis-info.

I am a walking example of how dis-info can wake you up as I was heavily into the new age blavastky, Godfre Ray-king 30 years ago, it woke me up and by the nature of my new ability to discern I found that my source was flawed which allowed me to move on to other stuff and here I am.

Todays truths are tomorrows lies - the very nature of mental evolution and even life itself. It is the mistakes we make that build our truths. Are you saying that mistakes are worthless and fruitless?

actually there is, that is the point - there is proof that sitchin's info is false, from the very fine details to the entire broad general ideas and beliefs proposed by such theories.

Sounds like belief to me. Is there real proof that Sitchen's work is false? Where is this proof and while your at it define proof for me because I am missing something here as I always thought that proof was based on imperial evidence. We have NONE on both sides of the argument here. If we had the slightest bit of proof for any of the conspiracy theories we entertain, then they would not be conspiracy at all.

No one is blindly judging, I am advocating looking into all sides of the story rather than just sitchin's.

just as I am, yet I keep an open mind and accept the fact that I could be totally wrong. Pardon if I am mistaken but may I quote you from your first post on this thread?

Absolutely, Sitchin is not legitimate.

smells of judgment to me. and since you have no qualified expertise in the field that Sitchen is accomplished in I would also call that "blind", or just a repeat of someone else's judgment, which is probably also blind and motivated to debunk.

I have researched sitchin thoroughly for many years. The problem is people aren't learning about the new age, and conspiracy culture creation

As have I and I fully admit I have no proof one way or the other. Bob Dean's interview didn't sell me. But an insider is telling me to research Planet X even further, yet I will not be looking to Sitchen for that, I already know his story. I will looking elsewhere. Probably in the astronomical circles, because that is where the proof will show itself first IMHO.

Furthermore I am really interested in your findings on the connection with Sitchen and the new age movement. Could you post some of it or PM some of that info to me? An article or anything as this really interests me. Thanks.

It's a major psyops to keep us from the real truth.

an entirely subjective statement an is in no way convincing to me that Sitchen is the boogy man (yet could be). Hell, I even suspect that those who are doing the psyops are also under a greater psyop. isn't that how compartmentalization works? You could be right, but my gut tells me you really dont know this as fact.

No one is rejecting new info, in this case with sitchin, it has not been rejected, but researched and studied and then objected on as being false. This is not mainstream debunking like popular mechanics i'm talking about either, this is truth research that has exposed how this culture has been set up to mislead us and how sitchin is a part of it.

It could very well be. But isn't it a foolish gamble when you decide something isn't true without direct knowledge of it?

but all this is all researched and referenced in major publications, declassified CIA documents, etc.

Now THIS would substantiate as proof. Can you post them or a link please, as I have never been exposed to them and would love to see what the CIA has to say about Sitchen?

I'm just asking that people learn more about the techniques used to control us, before thinking they have found solutions in some of these "theories" such as sitchin's.

This is great advice. I recognize I could be under the influence right now concerning this information, do you?.

Based on your logic, you should at least research more into what I'm saying,

believe me I am and will be doing so for a while. Have you ever read the terra papers or The Gods of Eden? They mesh well with sitchen's work yet Nibiru is an anomaly I have found only in Sitchen's work and I considered most of the history he presents as pretty good evidence (not proof). Yet there are still some things I have difficulty relating too. And I feel he tends to try to over prove himself by latching onto any new technology that relates to his work while he tries to convince us it is proof.

Even if I was wrong, and that me asking people to look into how Sitchin is illegitimate might be dis-info itself

Dis-info is something that has been getting thrown around alot. Yet from where I am sitting, no one has the whole story and there is a good chance that the info that the best of the whistle-blowers and disclosers have could have been dis-info that THEY were fed. Combine this with the predisposition of the belief system they are attached to, as well as other information they simply cannot tell us, and you will find that we are not getting the whole story from anyone.

Bob Dean even says he lies to Kerry and Bill and this is no doubt due to the fact that he can only reveal so much. This is also true with other insiders. Perhaps even Zacharia Sitchen did this in his books. Point is, we simply do not know.

my take anyway

[Doom]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Dis-info does wake people up, otherwise how do you account for all the people here who have different backgrounds based on different info/dis-info.

I am a walking example of how dis-info can wake you up as I was heavily into the new age blavastky, Godfre Ray-king 30 years ago, it woke me up and by the nature of my new ability to discern I found that my source was flawed which allowed me to move on to other stuff and here I am.

Todays truths are tomorrows lies - the very nature of mental evolution and even life itself. It is the mistakes we make that build our truths. Are you saying that mistakes are worthless and fruitless?


Sounds like belief to me. Is there real proof that Sitchen's work is false? Where is this proof and while your at it define proof for me because I am missing something here as I always thought that proof was based on imperial evidence. We have NONE on both sides of the argument here. If we had the slightest bit of proof for any of the conspiracy theories we entertain, then they would not be conspiracy at all.

just as I am, yet I keep an open mind and accept the fact that I could be totally wrong. Pardon if I am mistaken but may I quote you from your first post on this thread?

smells of judgment to me. and since you have no qualified expertise in the field that Sitchen is accomplished in I would also call that "blind", or just a repeat of someone else's judgment, which is probably also blind and motivated to debunk.

As have I and I fully admit I have no proof one way or the other. Bob Dean's interview didn't sell me. But an insider is telling me to research Planet X even further, yet I will not be looking to Sitchen for that, I already know his story. I will looking elsewhere. Probably in the astronomical circles, because that is where the proof will show itself first IMHO.

Furthermore I am really interested in your findings on the connection with Sitchen and the new age movement. Could you post some of it or PM some of that info to me? An article or anything as this really interests me. Thanks.

an entirely subjective statement an is in no way convincing to me that Sitchen is the boogy man (yet could be). Hell, I even suspect that those who are doing the psyops are also under a greater psyop. isn't that how compartmentalization works? You could be right, but my gut tells me you really dont know this as fact.

It could very well be. But isn't it a foolish gamble when you decide something isn't true without direct knowledge of it?


Now THIS would substantiate as proof. Can you post them or a link please, as I have never been exposed to them and would love to see what the CIA has to say about Sitchen?


This is great advice. I recognize I could be under the influence right now concerning this information, do you?.

believe me I am and will be doing so for a while. Have you ever read the terra papers or The Gods of Eden? They mesh well with sitchen's work yet Nibiru is an anomaly I have found only in Sitchen's work and I considered most of the history he presents as pretty good evidence (not proof). Yet there are still some things I have difficulty relating too. And I feel he tends to try to over prove himself by latching onto any new technology that relates to his work while he tries to convince us it is proof.


Dis-info is something that has been getting thrown around alot. Yet from where I am sitting, no one has the whole story and there is a good chance that the info that the best of the whistle-blowers and disclosers have could have been dis-info that THEY were fed. Combine this with the predisposition of the belief system they are attached to, as well as other information they simply cannot tell us, and you will find that we are not getting the whole story from anyone.

Bob Dean even says he lies to Kerry and Bill and this is no doubt due to the fact that he can only reveal so much. This is also true with other insiders. Perhaps even Zacharia Sitchen did this in his books. Point is, we simply do not know.

my take anyway

dis-info won't wake anyone up, sorry I cannot agree that it can wake someone up.
Well...the only way it can wake someone up, is if it makes someone aware there's something going on, and then they look into it for themselves. Ie. If Sitchin makes you aware there's something crazy going on, but then you look into it and relize there is some crazy going on but that Sitchin's info was set up to mislead anyone who dared question their reality. Then Dis-info can wake one up. But most likely it will just lead them on a journey chasing your imagination around in circles. And it is hard to break out of because so much has been pushed out by the establishment that people think is waking them up, when it is actually disabling the victims minds.

That's my point, stop getting the info from "whistle-blowers" and "disclosers" who are fed the dis-info or have been set up to put out the dis-info. go to the sources yourself, the documentation from the establishment, and you will see 95% of these people are mislead or liars. The real big players really running the world don't write about aliens, or reptilians, etc. because there aren't any. (aren't any here involved in anything anyway - i don't doubt there is life elsewhere in the universe). Just take a look how much establishment mainstream media support there is for aliens/reptilians/ancient astronauts. It's everywhere, much of this is documented in links I have previously provided. Like I said before as well, they put out the mainstream debunkers, and the mainstream conspiracies, and play them off each other to advance their agenda.

I have posted a list of over 100 books in this thread:
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?p=11144
Many by the elite. Please check them out if you haven't.

I also should say that the declassified cia douments I'm refering to (sorry i don't have direct links - For at least one, if you can find it, CIA has declassified information about a booklet/magazine the CIA put out in the 50s called "The New Age". ) don't specifically refer to Sitchin, they refer to the setting up of the new age culture - they refer to things like creating the belief in people's minds that aliens were here in the past and created us. Almost all supporting evidence of this theory is false, and a part of the same major psyops. They want people believing this, because then the people who do have already been defeated - They disable the mind of the victim.

[elirien]

The three thousand year old space module was 25 year old plaster!

It became evident that The alleged three thousand year old Space Module that was hosted by the Archaeological Museum of Istanbul was in actuality made from plaster 25 years ago.

The space module which was found “matchless” by museum curators, found as a three thousand year old space module of the Urartu Kingdom many headlines to news in the western press. But conclusions of the Ministry of Arts and Culture Memorial and Museums department chemical and petro-graphical analyses proved that those theories didn’t agree with historical reality.

There is various and contradicting information concerning how the artifact came to the museum. One of the theories is that an antique merchant brought it to the museum. The space module, which has five engines is 23 centimeters long and 9,5 centimeters high. The General Director of the Museum Ph. D. Alpay Pasinli said that, the artifact could not be from three thousand years, but rather from 25 years the most. Pasinli, who said that we should remember that the western press convinced their public that the space module was three thousand years old, added that they have confirmed that this artifact was made out of plaster and marble dust through the results from analyses.

The space module, which became one of the most popular artifacts of the Istanbul Archeological Museum and was sought after by western scientists and media, was written about in tens of Articles in Europe and became news in many newspapers and television news casts. The space module which was sought after by German and English archeologists in the beginning of the 1990’s was for a long time secured in the preservation unit of the museum. The first who succeeded in photographing the space module was the English Magazine “Fortean Times”. The Magazine, which showed a picture of the sculpture and head lined “Is it an ancient space module?” in their October 1993 issue was followed by the German magazine “Magazin 2000”. After this event the competing firm of Magazin 2000, G.A.R.L. sent their editor to Istanbul and he shared his findings with the public. But almost all of the research and what was presented to the public was written in this manner: “It is confirmed that the space ship that is now in the Istanbul Archeological Museum was found in a archeological dig made in 1975 in the old city of Tuspa that is also known as Toprakkale. It is in the northeast of the Van lake where the Urartu Kingdom spread between 830-612 BC.” After these allegations were made it was written that it was in the Istanbul Archeological Museum but not on public display.

Zecharia Sitchin, linguistic and Bible scholar and writer of the book “The 12th Planet”, made the greatest research on the controversial “Space Module”. Sitchin, who came in the beginning of the 90’s to Turkey came in the forefront of the people that claimed that the Space Module was three thousand years old. Sitchin made these remarks after the sculpture left the preservation unit of the museum and was presented to him on a velvet tray: “The object, was made out of a porous material that could probably be a stone made out of volcanic ash. The bends and amazing amount of detail disproves that it was made from raw labor. Was it really a plaster caste that came out of a plastic toy as claimed by the museums official explanations? It doesn’t seem that way.

There are various and contradicting information concerning how and from where the “Space Module” was brought to the Istanbul Archeological Museum. The most popular idea is that an antique trader brought the sculpture and after realizing that it was fake he didn’t pursue it. The Space module which is 23 centimeters long, 9,5 centimeters high and 8 centimeters wide has five engines. There is also a pilot figure on the small sculpture that has bent his knees reaching its chest. The clothing of the pilot resembles the space suits that astronauts wear.

Zaman

source: http://arsiv.zaman.com.tr/2003/04/30/kultur/h6.htm (in turkish though, I translated it).

[Doom]

Cool. Yea, I've read many similar reports about the Crystal Skull not being the true artifact it is made out to be either. I can't say for sure with what you posted and the crystal skull, but I can say for sure that many, many, of these evidences for all this type of stuff has been forged/made up/etc..

[David]

Originally Posted by Heretic

are you here to learn information or just to blindly judge it?

Excellent point.