Gun Protection

[Kahunamahalo]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.

There is a reason America has not been invaded and occupied. Can Europe say the same? I am not a gun owner but I stand by the people that do own them and will fight for their right to do so.

Jerry

[Uncle Fester]

If you want to know what owning a gun is like during martial law, watch this video of what happened during Katrina

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

I've often pondered what I will do faced with this situation.

Die on my feet, or live on my knees.

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.

"pretty good"? LOL WOW, check your violent crime statistics there bloke.

Violent crime in the UK has skyrocketed since your masters saw fit to disarm you.

I feel sorry for ya....honestly.

[sjkted]

Has anyone read Patriots: Surviving The Upcoming Collapse? When martial law is declared, I'll be more concerned about the looters than the government.

[MMe M]

Originally Posted by Stinkhorn

If there is martial law, the US gov will collect all firearms by force, look at new orleans, they had lists of gun owners, sought them out and took their weapons.

Are you willing to kill 12 to 30 US soldiers commanded to take your weapons? Are you capable to do so? I am sure if you resisted from your home, they would move in a tank or 2 and level your home. Hell, they could do it from 10 miles away.

Hide your weapons well, they will enter your home by force and take whatever they want. Some soldiers my disent, but the rest will follow orders blindly.

Then I shall die a hero's death in the resistance, better a tank than a gas chamber or worse. Ill take as many as I can with me that would violate the sacred rights of all human beings. Dont think I cant or wont.

[Myplanet2]

I feel America is in a somewhat unique position. A big part of this global drama is being played out there, and it's precisely BECAUSE Americans have maintained their rights to own and bear arms that the game is not already over.

The US military can never disarm America without her consent. That would be the most lopsided battle in history.

Don't be afraid. Don't plan on using your weapons. But don't give them up. Your possession of personal arms in America might be the only thing PREVENTING martial law.

And the PTB have been trying to remove that obstacle for many years.

[Kahunamahalo]

And recently the Supreme Court upheld that law.

[Adarajones]

Originally Posted by sjkted

Has anyone read Patriots: Surviving The Upcoming Collapse? When martial law is declared, I'll be more concerned about the looters than the government.

Yes, you are absolutely right!, this is why WE MUST AVOID big cities at all costs!. At the first sign of trouble get out of dodge!.

When all hell breaks loose, and after a short period of time there is no more food to buy anywhere, no medicines, no gas, and your neighbor sees that at the end of the street, there is someone with a generator, food and supplies (meaning 'you' because your prepared ahead of time) guess what is going to happen to you, THE BROTHERLY LOVE GOES OUT THE WINDOW, people panic!. This why we need to have a PLAN. Don't wait until is too late!!.

From the Heart!

[strayslack]

One look at my avatar (is that the correct term?) and you can plainly see where I fall on this issue. Don't get me wrong, I loathe the redneck machismo attitude that often comes along with gun rights - the "cold dead fingers" rhetoric. But let me make myself very clear. If it comes down to it, and the PTB do what many of us think they are capable of doing, I will protect myself and my family. If there are 20 of them, and the odds are against me, SO BE IT. I will not go to the trains. I will not give up my protection. Period.
If they try to find my weapons, they will not find them. If a situation arises where I need to have my weapons on my person, then they will not find ME.
If you choose to give up without a fight then that is your right as a human being, but those who have fought for the freedom of the human spirit throughout history will be rolling over in their graves.

I own guns for these reason, in this order.
1. For hunting for food. This will be imperative in the sort of environment societal chaos would bring.
2. For personal protection against individuals who would seek to take from me during such a crisis. I would NEVER advocate the taking of a human life except for self defense, and someone stealing my children's sustenance is one of those cases.
3. For protection against those who would seek to round up me and my family.

The bottom line is that it's time, folks. It's time to stand up for what you believe, and if you die in the process, then SO BE IT. Many of us believe that what comes next is better. Live that premise.
You cannot "spread love" from your grave.

[mortalcoil]

I honestly believe if anyone wants an acurate depection of what life will be like after the collapse they should look no further than the Argentine collapse of 2001. A man by the name of FerFal has posted numerous observations from living day to day in the 3rd world.

His views on the inportance of handguns and personal protection are the best I've ever read. This is not from speculation or from some far away battlefield but what he has to deal with every day.

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...1;t=044387;p=0

http://www.ferfal.blogspot.com/

[Equalitor]

You are absolutely right Strayslack [or Mr. Glock], we can not and should not live without at least one firearm! Food and defense will be extremely important in a situation we would never imagine.
Please take a look at our survival group here at Avalon; The Darkside of the Moon: www.projectavalon.net/forum/group.php?groupid=9

Without guns in a crisis:
= No relevant chance to defend, even if it is only scaring others away
= No relevant chance to hunt food of all sorts
= No relevant chance to feed yourselves or family in lasting crisis
= No relevant chance to live outside civilisation
= No relevant chance to uphold life
= No relevant chance to spread the word and let people wake up
= No relevant chance to see what the world will become afterwards

If you are placed in a prison camp there will be plenty of such chances, but take your precautions never to get there!

It's never to late to start with guns training folks. I never thought of guns in the first place either. Tools are here for your use.

[Captain Obvious]

Interesting topic, theorising (is that a word?) a scenario that might or might not happen. Nobody really knows what is gonna happen, guess that's the bottom line.

On this forum, even though there are more advanced incarnations here than in many other settings, spirits are on different levels. And in another setting, the regular joe, I THINK (theory), is more likely to panic, and be in a state of survival that will be of the dark polarity - me, me, me, at any cost.

Sometimes I end my participation in certain situations, and that's MY appropiate response to that situation. Other times I equally muster up what is thrown at me. I think of myself as friendly, but I'm not afraid of defending myself.

Now. I don't have a gun, and I don't plan to get one. Too lazy, too much hassle, but I'm sure I could find something to use for defensive measures if I felt the need.

I think if there is something to be learnt about dark domination such as wars etc, the dark doesn't give a sod about any fluffy words and.. love. I mean, really? If anything, I think it's percieved as weakness and an easy prey.

As for they who refuse to defend themselves in such a weird event, that's their experience and way of doing things, and I'm glad there are different roads to choose, to progress at our chosen tempo. I like it that way.

Worst case scenario, exit earth, enter astral and beyond. I (not the body) can live with that. :-) I don't know how I'll handle unknown scenarios, but as of now, I don't feel fear about this subject, and I think I'll be just fine whatever happens.

[recallone]

Concerning the implementation of martial law, I think there are some glaringly evident points that aren't being considered. The PTB are trying desperately to maintain their control of the masses, and many of us call them pitiful and are assured of our eventual victory as their plans fail. But lets not underestimate them. They had to have taken into account that American soldiers would have a hard time locking up and killing their own countrymen. That's why there are UN troops already here. If they specifically employ a military force that doesn't even speak the language (in many cases), they can tell their soldiers any number of things that will make their task easier to stomach - and most of them won't be able to even have a conversation with the people they're imposing that rule upon. Furthermore, all means of communication will have been taken over. That means that those soldiers won't even have the opportunity to converse with their family members, clergymen, whoever they look to for truth. That means our guys possibly in another country conducting similar operations, again - not even speaking the language of the land that they're occupying. An all-out resistance movement would be futile, I think. .22s against tanks and body-armored troops?
I feel that firearms are important, but not as a stay-in-the-city scenario. I think it's commonly acknowledged that a disruption in food supply would make things in the city pretty hairy in short order. That's why I want to get as far away from it as possible.
They'll have their hands full with whatever city they're trying to dominate. Small groups in the sticks are going to be small potatoes and clearly more challenging to take control of. IMHO, that is.
Peace and light, brothers and sisters.

[Equalitor]

Personally I prefer a much larger caliber, that can take anything living, without destroying it totally. Either the Nato 7.62/308 Win, or the 30-06. Both have acceptable recoil, prize and size. Expanding rounds for everything bigger than a small deer or so, and solid for small prey, to save more meat, more food.
.22 can take out deer with headshot if you are a d**n good sniper, but never go for their head. They starve painfully to death without their jaw Rather the neck.

[arcora]

I'm in SC.

Everyone here has a gun. I think they hand them out for free at the rest stop when you enter the state.

But seriously....

Here, most people own at least one gun. There is no registration for residents. One can walk into any licensed store and purchase a handgun and ammo and take posession immediately.

Furthermore, concealed weapon permits are considered to be a right, not a privelege. The law here says the Sheriff MUST give one to anyone who applies and meets the basic criteria (ie: pass a background check and complete a gun safety course).

Any time one is out in public in SC it is likely that there are armed strangers around. Believe it or not, it is a comforting thought. I feel better knowing that some crazed lunatic has to think twice here about going on some sort of a rampage. There are dozens of good citizens around who are always armed and dangerous.

That being said.

I am certain that if and when martial law is declared, the PTB will arrive and confiscate all of the guns. Also, I think that during martial law it will be either a serious felony (think concentration camp) or worse (think deadly force) if a citizen is caught with a gun in their posession.

Guns are a non-issue because they will be confiscated from everyone who doesn't want to die.

[Ceilidh_Madigan@yahoo.com]

[QUOTE=Equalitor;3866]
2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
/QUOTE]

i think we should also remember that this chaos has not ACTUALLY hapened yet, we still live in a system of laws, and suggesting people commit a felony, I think, isn't helpful.

On that note, I'm starting to think the pepper spray thing would be ideal for self defense in urban areas. If you live in an urban area, if martial law is declared city houses may be searched but I doubt rural areas will get the same scrutiny. In any case, when it comes to living it ruff, many native peoples could hunt competently without guns. Perhaps research trapping techniques. Ultimately everyone should follow their conscience, and be prepared however they feel necessary. Lets just not try to end up in jail BEFORE it all goes down, as that's definitely the last place you wanna be...

[Equalitor]

[QUOTE=Ceilidh_Madigan@yahoo.com;17338]

Originally Posted by Equalitor

2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
/QUOTE]

i think we should also remember that this chaos has not ACTUALLY hapened yet, we still live in a system of laws, and suggesting people commit a felony, I think, isn't helpful.

On that note, I'm starting to think the pepper spray thing would be ideal for self defense in urban areas. If you live in an urban area, if martial law is declared city houses may be searched but I doubt rural areas will get the same scrutiny. In any case, when it comes to living it ruff, many native peoples could hunt competently without guns. Perhaps research trapping techniques. Ultimately everyone should follow their conscience, and be prepared however they feel necessary. Lets just not try to end up in jail BEFORE it all goes down, as that's definitely the last place you wanna be...

I understand your concern. If I was about to get unlegal weapons, the situation would be VERY close to being critical and I stood without a huntingweapon. I don't think that will happen. If I was told my weapon was to be taken in [probably they would just knock on my door and ask for it] I would of course take off to the woods at once. But I would not be the first to be searched in that case, and some media would find out what was going on. Eventually I could be warned by friends.
If there was to be war here, they would not take guns, but arm as many as possible against invading enemies.

How would pepperspray be for defending/scaring against a pack of robbers in the city you think? They actually organize smart too: In groups! It would make them far angrier and hunt you for a lifetime, if you got away from the bullet rain and having wounded one. You could really dream of a pump action shotgun then. Oh mama.. Staying away from cities are the smartest anyway, and store anything useful out of town.

And how to take down a large moose with snares, or even a [cross]bow in a windy, dusk, quite thight forest at 150 meters [450 ft]? Not to think about a deer in the same situation. Remember that you would want a meal of meat more than once a month if you run out of shelf food... and something other than mice and occacional fish only.

It's nothing personal. Just that I would not accept such conditions for myself, and are interested in others opinions.

You get credit for wanting peaceful solutions, but it is not the weapon who decides your actions. If you do not want to kill people in self defense, just shoot them in the feet/legs/arms then. That is somewhat just as difficult as spraying them enough to drop their weapons, and having a WAY better reach. This is more easily done with a shotgun, as you can imagine. What if your attackers wear facemasks for defending against such things as pepperspray? If they wear bulletproof vests you would at least have tried, and with most normal vests they really feel it if they are hit at 3 meters anyway. Guess they would breake a rib bone, or two. The feet and arms are always unarmored. Those options gives you a second chance to knock them out any way you want, when they feel shock and pain by being shot somewhere.

Just my little word.
-Eq

[Anti-Ignorance]

I honestly believe in this day and age, and the times we are facing, we must exercise every single right we still have left. They are slowly stripping away the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and they have been trying for decades to take the guns from the people. I think it is a crime if you DO NOT own a gun in America.

It is the knowledge that there is a gun, the threat, which is the real advantage when it comes to defense. You learn to fight so you don't have to. It will also be helpful for hunting purposes.

I already owned a handgun, and I recently purchased a rifle. I live in Texas, so they practically sell them in those little candy machines. But owning one is not good enough, you need to be experienced with it, learn to take it apart, practice proper safety, educate others, use it, fire it often, clean it. Be smart with it, hide it, especially when **** hits the fan, and only show it or use it when ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. The art of deception is the greatest tactic in any type of combat or competitive situation. Appear weak when you are strong. Appear dumb when you are smart, and vise versa.

Anyone who says that you will be killed for owning a gun, guns are dangerous, etc... well you have already lost the battle, because you have given in to fear. I heard a quote from William Cooper, (this may not be completely accurate) “The truth is, in a town where everyone owns a gun, and everyone else knows it, there is no crime.” You do whatever it takes for your survival, and if you have the right to own a gun, it will greatly increase your chances for survival. However there are things that are much more important, much more powerful weapons to get you through the difficult times ahead, LOVE and POSITIVE THOUGHT being the strongest. You cannot put your faith in physical possessions alone. Also remember the saying “live by the sword, die by the sword”. There is an inherent risk associated with gun ownership, but the military is not your only enemy in a time of chaos. A crazed man will laugh at your chants for love and peace when he is trying to find food to feed his children, but may think twice when he hears the cocking of a shotgun in his face. When you have been forced from your home, you are hungry and roaming in the wilderness and see a nice fat boar or a deer, you would be wishing you had a rifle.

I highly recommend getting a gun as part of a preparation plan, but honestly it is just a useless hunk of metal if you don’t know what to do with it, and yes, it could possibly even get you killed in certain circumstances. You must get informed enough to avoid those circumstances, and understand that it should only be used as a last resort for safety or survival.

[Xmen442002]

I don't believe that they will be able to confiscate the weapons. They will be too busy breaking up riots and trying to restore order if they even obey orders to do so. Remember, it won't be local law enforcement officers conducting martial law. Do you think they are going to sit idle while weapons are taken from them also.
If this scenario plays out on the grand scale, I can guarantee that the majority will not give up their fire arms. Too many people know how important this is to allow this to happen.

Xmen