Cults!

[Church]

Oh MAN that video is funny!

[swordsmith]

A lot of people have no idea they are even in a cult. By increments they are led piece by piece down the path thinking it IS in line with their freewill. It's only much later one might look back and say ...hmmmmm. Sometimes the cult leaders start out with good intentions , but go bad. Power corrupts, the ego is a hungry monkey and there are plenty of well meaning people with peanuts galore to give away.

I maintain the thought that nobody is who you think they are online until you have met them in the flesh, that's kind of why we have bodies. The body picks up many things the brain alone does not and the internet is an ideal place for role playing and editing . So many people just dying to give away their power. I guess because they want to be part of something greater.
You already are.

[Myplanet2]

Excellent post AJ. Great bunch of info to add to the filters.

I'd add that it's not likely that Cult leaders follow some scripted play book when collecting a following, and so may not necessarily follow the above broader strokes in sequence.

Your heart doesn't lie. It's not capable of it. The more one centers their consciousness in their heart, the less they can be led astray.

We're in the relative no-mans-land between the 3rd and 5th dimensions. thinking mind is the filter for the 3rd and heart is the filter for the 5th. Learning to separate them in ones discernment is the key, or one of the keys. They are both valid filters, but the mind is immersed in illusions and accepts illusions as real. The Heart never makes that mistake.

As in your advice at the bottom of your post, each must do their own discerning and decision making. The process must be respected, or it is bypassed and nothing is learned.

There can be a temptation to "stop" someone from being drawn into a cult. There can be a lining up in opposition to a cult. But that level of play draws on 3D structures, not 5D. 5D is a place of balance where the heart is simply trusted, because it is never in error. And part of that trust is a trust in others to have the same facility available to them, as well.

Who knows what another's life path is. perhaps being drawn into a cult is a big part of it. Since the mind is accepting and even reinforcing of illusions, often we don't even know what our own lifes path is, until we exit a chapter with some great lesson learned. The proverbial "Aha...That's what that was all about". The Silver lining which emerges from the cloud.

Our higher selves set up some pretty dramatic experiences here in 3D, and it is easy to believe they weren't something we were arranging for ourselves as an opportunity to grow and understand, and exceed previous limitations.

The significance of the Laws from the handbooks grows as our experiences grow to embrace them. The laws of attraction, allowance, deliberate intent and balance all mean more to me than they did when I first read about them. balance requires the other 3 in order to come online. This then begs the question about whether we interfere with another's efforts at achieving balance, if we do not "allow" them to "attract" to them factors which will put them on a fence which they must then use their personal discernment to arrive at a decision which permits "deliberate intent".

Any situation can be approached from a bottom up or a top down perspective. Top down grants others their Godhood, and says I know you'll be ok, no matter what you choose. Bottom up says, "you better watch out, I smell danger for you!!", and it can be kind of undermining, even when the intentions are purly loving.

[stal]

good post anchor.

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

I'd add that it's not likely that Cult leaders follow some scripted play book when collecting a following, and so may not necessarily follow the above broader strokes in sequence.

if you look into it, a lot of them kinda do.

[orthodoxymoron]

Thank-you for posting this Anchor. Perhaps we need to be saved from our saviors. My guess is that a lot of people (and aliens?) start out with good intentions...which subsequently pave the road to hell. I don't really know what the proper balance point is regarding leaders and followers. Perhaps a leader who teaches followers to be leaders is a good sign. Perhaps we need a plurality of facilitators rather than leaders. I don't know. I watched an interview with L. Ron Hubbard which I thought was very good...but I wouldn't touch Scientology with a 100 foot pole. I grew up in a church which many have called a cult. I later attended a megachurch headed by an extremely charismatic and articulate televangelist...with cultish characteristics. I ended up being disillusioned by both organizations...although I learned a lot from both of them. Perhaps the bottom-line is that "Power Corrupts. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely." Perhaps the first and last commandment should be "Thou Shalt Have No Gods". Perhaps all paths are problematic...and that we should not have unreasonable expectations.

'Called to Be Free' is a video about the upheaval and transformation in the Worldwide Church of God. Even if you are not interested in religion or spirituality...it is a case study in human behavior, group sociology...and how change occurs in a religious organization...or any organization. YouTube - Called To Be Free What happened to these people can happen to you or me. It's about leadership, abuse of power, gullibility, money, etc. Learn from other people's mistakes. People can dispense with one delusion...and accept another to replace the first. How about everything being up for grabs...all the time? Is this too emotionally upsetting? We desire certainty and peace...yet the world around us is constantly changing...and people and paradigms are in collision. Do we have to lie to ourselves and others...and live in a dreamworld...in order to find peace with ourselves and others? Can New Agers be just as deluded as the Old Agers? Can a very cool and hip new age guru take people for a ride just as easily as a Bible-thumping fundamentalist egomaniac in a megachruch? I'm beginning to despair regarding learning the lessons necessary to properly conduct business on Earth. The propensity of humanity toward delusion is disillusioning...to say the least. The gravitation toward sensation...will sink us. The lessons which one can learn from this video...can be applied to all religious and philosophical systems...especially where charismatic leaders and group peer-pressures are involved. One can think that they are right...and that there is no way that they could be wrong...yet in a few short months or years...they can find themselves drowning in disillusionment. I predict that there will be videos similar to this one regarding the New Age Movement. People have been burned over and over again...throughout the centuries. Please learn the lessons derived from the rude awakenings of the people in this video...and apply these lessons to the contemporary alternative thinking scene. I realize that we need to rethink everything...but that we need to rethink our rethinking...in most cases.

Namaste

[Stardustaquarion]

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

Thank-you for posting this Anchor. Perhaps we need to be saved from our saviors.
Namaste

The problem is to identify why we need saviours and why we can not save ourselves

While there is much to re member is always useful to ask oneself if what it is on offer helps to empower or disempower oneself

Most of the free information out there is plain bs tha one can spend lifetimes reading and finish empty handed

The alarm bells for me start sounding when someone says follow me...you don't need to think or know just follow me I know what I am doing.....

Love

[orthodoxymoron]

Don't mess with the Thubans!! The Empire might strike back!! This could result in the Thuban Missile Crisis!!
Here is a lecture given at MIT regarding how good people turn evil. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/459 This lecture can help to explain how leaders and followers can go downhill...sometimes very quickly. I think this applies to the 'cult' topic. The following introduction was taken from the MIT website:

Perhaps no one comprehends the roots of depravity and cruelty better than Philip Zimbardo. He is renowned for such research as the Stanford Prison Experiment, which demonstrated how, in the right circumstances, ordinary people can swiftly become amoral monsters. Evil is not so much inherent in individuals, Zimbardo showed, but emerges dependably when a sequence of dehumanizing and stressful circumstances unfolds. It is no wonder then, that Zimbardo has lent both his expertise and moral outrage to the case of U.S. reservists who perpetrated the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.

Zimbardo’s latest book, The Lucifer Effect, attempts to understand “how good people do evil deeds.” His talk outlines his involvement as expert witness for the defense team of one of the military police officers responsible at Abu Ghraib, and also provides a rich history of psychological research into the kind of behavior transformations evident in Iraq. First, Zimbardo presents a slideshow of Abu Ghraib abominations, including some digital photos that were not widely distributed by the media. Then he digs deep into the archives for a horrifically illustrated tour of experiments that make a persuasive case that certain, predictable situations corrupt people into wielding power in a destructive way.

He describes Stanley Milgram’s 1963 Yale-based research demonstrating that people will behave sadistically when confronted by “an authority in a lab coat.” A vast majority of the subjects delivered what they were told were dangerous electric shocks to a learner in another room, to the point of apparently killing the other person. Researchers skeptical of his results replicated them. This time, professors demanded that students shock real puppies standing on electrified grills. Zimbardo’s own prison experiment turned an ordinary group of young men into power-hungry “guards,” humiliating equally ordinary “prisoners” in the basement of Stanford’s psychology building. The descent into barbarity was so rapid that Zimbardo had to cancel the experiment after a few days.

The recipe for behavior change isn’t complicated. “All evil begins with a big lie,” says Zimbardo, whether it’s a claim to be following the word of God, or the need to stamp out political opposition. A seemingly insignificant step follows, with successive small actions, presented as essential by an apparently just authority figure. The situation presents others complying with the same rules, perhaps protesting, but following along all the same. If the victims are anonymous or dehumanized somehow, all the better. And exiting the situation is extremely difficult.

Abu Ghraib fit this type of situation to a T, says Zimbardo. The guards, never trained for their work helping military interrogators, worked 12-hour shifts, 40 days without a break, in chaotic, filthy conditions, facing 1,000 foreign prisoners, and hostile fire from the neighborhood. They operated in extreme stress, under orders to impose fear on their prisoners. Zimbardo believes the outcome was perfectly predictable, and while never absolving these soldiers of personal responsibility, believes justice won’t be done until “the people who created the situation go on trial as well: George Tenet, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush.”

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

[FIIISH]

Great thread, Anchor.

As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, I can attest to the power of the cult
influence and the difficulty one can encounter when disentangling.

I have not had a relationship with numerous family members for over 14 years
due to leaving this particular cult....

I think this particular experience served multiple purposes for
me and was integral to my growth. Painful, but necessary....

[Stardustaquarion]

Hi orthodoxymoron

Thank you for your post, will read it later. I posted a link to another theory/book yesterday that deals with cognitive disonance (mistakes were made but not by me - booK )

The way people come to terms with things that are unethical is by telling themselves that they are doing it for the good of humanity Is a form of self lie. Of course there is always a boss and money or salaries involved, black mail etc.

I don't know how the bosses deal with it but I am sure is the same principle "oh you ignorant mortals, the world will be better without you" or "we are better than you therefore we deserve more" kind of thing

When I read the book my jaw dropped

Many people justify their behaviour by saying "oh is just business" as if the fact that they are producing money is a kind of license to kill

The root of the problem seems to be the philosophy of "survival of the fitest" and "the end justify the means"

Awfully interesting

Love

[Fredkc]

1. Great thread, Anchor. A tough, and valuable lesson for people to learn.

2. If the term "Cognitive Dissonance" is new to anyone, here is a short (10 paragraphs) description of the term, and how it works.

Fred

[mntruthseeker]

Fantastic Information Anchor, as usual coming from you

You have a fantastic insight


IMO, all religious organizations would be considered a cult.

[swordsmith]

Good article on cognitive dissonance, Fredkc. For example , on this forum, and we know that IS what we are really talking about, there is a lot of feeling if you are not positive and telling everybody you love them all the damn time that you are a curmudgeon. Fine, so be it. I dont love ANYONE on this forum, I don't actually KNOW anyone here, but the love thing and valueing it , makes people afraid of anything that might upset the apple cart, or Bill and Kerry having a split, or Thuban whatever causing hard feelings.
I DON'T CARE , what I care about is the truth and what that means to me. I still wish everyone " love " here, but it ain't personal, and if I don't like something, if I can be bothered, and if I think it might be useful I will say my piece, and that's why a lot of mind control goes over my head. Precisely because I don't care what anyone here thinks of me.
A wise woman I heard lecture a long time ago asked a room full of people what they would sell out for. Many people responded that they thought most people did for money and power, she shocked a lot of people by simply asking," and what about love?"
If I don't have a meal, or say, a disagreement with someone, then how can I know who the hell they are? I have no idea who Bill and Kerry are, so how would I really know their intentions?
I have no doubt that to some people here, this IS a cult.

[Fredkc]

My humble request is that you carefully assess the motives behind all of the online structures and organizations that you encounter on the internet. Do this just as you would structures and organizations in real life, examine them in the light of common sense and allow the infinite inner love and wisdom guide your actions.

Having been "out amung'em" in this arena for nearly 35 years, I would strongly suggest you not limit this advice to the online arena.

Fred's 2 cents worth

[Stardustaquarion]

Originally Posted by Fredkc

Having been "out amung'em" in this arena for nearly 35 years, I would strongly suggest you not limit this advice to the online arena.

Fred's 2 cents worth

Very insigtfull, thank you

[Aztar]

Originally Posted by Stardustaquarion

Very insigtfull, thank you

Glad you liked it, i was surprised they got so much basic information in such a short video.

[Aztar]

Found this as well,Huge Cult playlist.

[orthodoxymoron]

Originally Posted by swordsmith

Good article on cognitive dissonance, Fredkc. For example , on this forum, and we know that IS what we are really talking about, there is a lot of feeling if you are not positive and telling everybody you love them all the damn time that you are a curmudgeon. Fine, so be it. I dont love ANYONE on this forum, I don't actually KNOW anyone here, but the love thing and valueing it , makes people afraid of anything that might upset the apple cart, or Bill and Kerry having a split, or Thuban whatever causing hard feelings.
I DON'T CARE , what I care about is the truth and what that means to me. I still wish everyone " love " here, but it ain't personal, and if I don't like something, if I can be bothered, and if I think it might be useful I will say my piece, and that's why a lot of mind control goes over my head. Precisely because I don't care what anyone here thinks of me.
A wise woman I heard lecture a long time ago asked a room full of people what they would sell out for. Many people responded that they thought most people did for money and power, she shocked a lot of people by simply asking," and what about love?"
If I don't have a meal, or say, a disagreement with someone, then how can I know who the hell they are? I have no idea who Bill and Kerry are, so how would I really know their intentions?
I have no doubt that to some people here, this IS a cult.

What a profound comment swordsmith! Benevolent neutrality may be a good thing. Love often equals Submission. I don't love or hate the Thubans (if they exist). I don't love or hate demonic beings (I know they exist). I just want the truth...and a more sane way to manage the insanity. Please watch the entire M.I.T. video. It gets better and more relevant as it procedes. This is subtle stuff folks. None of us are above being taken-in by all manner of BS. None of us should be here trying to win a popularity contest. I know that I post things that make people angry. I don't do it to be mean. I do it to try to make things better...whether anyone likes it or not.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

[Stardustaquarion]

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

What a profound comment swordsmith! Benevolent neutrality may be a good thing. Love often equals Submission.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

Well this is the problem, unconditional love is unconditional but uncompromisable as well

If we compromise our principles to be popular we begin a cycle of cognitive disonance and co dependency

Sometimes, tough love is more real than pleasing people because that way people have the opportunity to see things that may assist them

There is a lot of confusion in the world about what love means. From my perspective love can not be conditional or be held to expectations, that is not love is need

Lovehonestly

[sjkted]

Interesting you brought this up. The first thing that came to mind is David Wilcock's forum at divinecosmos.com.

--sjkted

[swordsmith]

and actually, I am a very loving person. In the personal realm it grows naturally from experience and trust, in the impersonal realm, such as here, it is only because I care immensely that I post at all . Wishing the best for all means we have to be on our toes in order to SEE the way the wool is constantly pulled over our eyes all under the guise of our own projected good intentions . I can not say it enough the projections are what enable the bad peope to get away with it and they LOVE it,( theres the love word for you.)
Many actually operate from the place of the glorification of their own egos even if they latch on to a good cause. So much the better and easier, especially amongst a bunch of people who are primed to believe we are all one. No we are not, but we may soon have the ability to telepathically undertsand the ways in which we are and aren't. Unfortunately, I am pretty strong on this so when people are not aligned with highest purpose, it sticks out, and there is plenty of it right here .
Having visited LA once was enough to give me a good example of what passed for acceptable amongst that sort of mind set. If anyone is selling you something ,take notice.

[burgundia]

great post anchor..i feel there is a reason why you posted it now....

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by burgundia

great post anchor..i feel there is a reason why you posted it now....

Well there is a reason: basically I posted it after I finished writing it, which took an oddly protracted period of time.

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

I couldn't help but wonder about the timing of it

...

It has triggered an enormous amount of negativity here when just hours ago we were all loving one another

As I said the timing has to do with the catalysts playing in my life and the results of my own personal review of the situations as they unfold. Many of us have benefited in the extreme recently from much of the material posted on this entire forum.

Read the posts of Jack, MyPlanet2, Malletzky etc Wonderful glimpses of higher order thinking that coax us ever onward in our personal journeys.

I don't agree that negativity has been released. This is not about positivity nor is it negativity; in my view wisdom is not polarized this way, wisdom is simply wisdom, and it is the wisdom that causes the resonance phenomena not positivity or negativity. Negativity and positivity are necessary artefacts of our 3D matrix lives, but certainly not of the matrix where we are going and some of us already glimpse.

If there is any polarity to wisdom it would be love. Love and Wisdom are the next fronteir for most of us to balance. We are nearly done with the 3D artifice of negativity and positivity - and still I hear references to them that echo fear and conditioning.

Cutting with the sword of truth involves destruction - is that negative?

A..

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Fredkc

1. Great thread, Anchor. A tough, and valuable lesson for people to learn.

2. If the term "Cognitive Dissonance" is new to anyone, here is a short (10 paragraphs) description of the term, and how it works.

Fred

Thank you so much Fred for this text. I bookmarked it. Spot on!

Namaste, Steven

[MargueriteBee]

I was once in a cult but I decided to manifest fabulous weath by keeping my money.

[Aztar]

Interesting Cult Video.



They use humor but someone did their homework for this video, its like Cult's 101.