Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? - Page 2

stefaan · 10-16-2008, 06:40 AM

Communists? Socialists? In America? You're just kidden, don't you?

Even if Obama would be communist, socialist, capitalist... it wouldn't change a thing.

If TPTB want communism, they'll get communism (but they don't want it)
If TPTB want socialism, they'll get socialism (but they don't want it)
If TPTB want fascism, they'll get fascism (that, they want very bad)

The president merely can change the surface, the image. Obama would be liked more abroad then McCain, that's for sure. Ok, that's something.

The many PTB have their scenarios ready, all fighting to get theirs through. With Bush in place for 8 years, one scenario has had the advantage: the installation of fascism (search here or Google for Noami Wolf, Noami Klein and if you cannot help it: Alex Jones).
Is this fascism a goal in itself or just the means to achieve something else? Difficult question.
If we see the global financial collapse, the economic collapse; maybe also sudden climate changes, pole shifts or other possible catastrophes, then maybe you can understand why they want Martial Law in place to maintain law and order.
Maybe they fear the public will come to realize how they have been used, exploited, enslaved, stolen from... for decades; so they fear an upraising, revolt?
The things they see in the future are bad in their eyes, so they need Martial Law?
It also could be fascism is the ultimate way to continu milking the people dry?
Whatever. Fascism is being installed slowly but firmly.

If you keep this in mind, what difference will it make, what president you have. And if it makes any difference, what president would you want?
For instance, if you're convinced Martial Law is on it's way, what president would you want in that case? A hardened military man (with the risk Palin has to take over)? A softy family man?
Hard times are coming anyhow. Who do you want?

If you're thinking about communism, socialism... now... I believe you're really missing the point.

Pomguymguy · 10-16-2008, 06:48 AM

Whoever gets to sit in the Big Chair in the Oval Office or stand behind the podium will be just like the rest of them - just ...... come on - you know the rest... thats one of the reasons we are all here at Avalon !

Which part of the 13th bloodline is he or anyone else that gets voted in .......................sorry - just fell off my chair laughing just then !

Anticomuna · 10-16-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

You would rather attempt to slander this man with false accusations of treason and terrorism than discuss the real issues.

Why don't you talk about his past AND the issues? In what book is there a law that make both subjects exclusive, either one or the other? Why not discussing everything that has to be discussed?

I don't really understand why some people are defensive when questions are asked about Obama. If he is really clean then what do you fear?

UncaRay · 10-16-2008, 04:13 PM

Obama is not a Communist. or Socialist, or a Capitalist for that matter.

He is the current public representative of one faction among several that makes up the Kleptocracy which is the true system that rules America. The Kleptocracy, by definition, has no ideology other than greed. Wether or not he uses socialist ideas, or capitalist, their true purpose will be to make the Rich richer and the Poor poorer. This election is not a battle of ideologies, it is naked class war. The Rich against the Poor. Obama or McCain, for those of us making under $250,000/year (and that's most of us by a considerable margin,) there is no measurable difference.

Write in Ron Paul, if you really want change.

showmemo · 10-16-2008, 04:45 PM

I really do not care for either McCain or Obama as they both are the same there is no difference just another shell game to have one fight with the other and to separate us and not let us unite on a common goal. Obama may win and the only thing I know is he will try to ban guns as he is anti guns and his leaders the true leaders want that as it scares them to see armed peoples that is why the rest of the world they took your weapons away already.

So will it make a diffrence who is in office? nope as we all saw both McCain and Obama voted for the billions soon to be trillions of dollars to go to the banksters. Funny how the rest of the world thinks one is better than the other the last pres. who tried to take on these banksters was Kennady and he well I wont go there for he was a brave man and I do not think Obama is even close to being him, of course they may want you to believe that why else would they have him in Germany to give a speach of course so the human phychy thinks bake to Kennady and his great speech at the berlin wall.

I would be concerned of how Obama used that as a lauch board to his NWO thoughts oh do not get me wrong I do not like Mcain and his lies on being a prisoner he sold out back then to save himeself do you know that all service men who where prisoners in vietnam got promotions and he did not he was the same rank that should say allot.

So for all you folks who think that Obama is the bomb LOL far from it he is handled like McCain is handled there is no two party system it is one party and it is a way to divide and conqure to keep up this constant you against me train of thought and to keep common folks from being open and free. Man I do not want to think if McCain wins and his vice pres is in office man what a mess that would be with her religion comming first.

here is a thought you know how they say the bible has been changed what if it is not the number of the beast being man but women and Pallen is pres. LOL and it is the number of the best is women LOL alright now I do not hate women I feel Hillary would have been better than Obama but what if? and what would that number be as man is 666 so what is womens number? LOL 411 for information haha

Thrustbucket · 10-16-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by showmemo

I really do not care for either McCain or Obama as they both are the same there is no difference just another shell game to have one fight with the other and to separate us and not let us unite on a common goal. Obama may win and the only thing I know is he will try to ban guns as he is anti guns and his leaders the true leaders want that as it scares them to see armed peoples that is why the rest of the world they took your weapons away already.

So will it make a diffrence who is in office? nope as we all saw both McCain and Obama voted for the billions soon to be trillions of dollars to go to the banksters. Funny how the rest of the world thinks one is better than the other the last pres. who tried to take on these banksters was Kennady and he well I wont go there for he was a brave man and I do not think Obama is even close to being him, of course they may want you to believe that why else would they have him in Germany to give a speach of course so the human phychy thinks bake to Kennady and his great speech at the berlin wall.

I would be concerned of how Obama used that as a lauch board to his NWO thoughts oh do not get me wrong I do not like Mcain and his lies on being a prisoner he sold out back then to save himeself do you know that all service men who where prisoners in vietnam got promotions and he did not he was the same rank that should say allot.

So for all you folks who think that Obama is the bomb LOL far from it he is handled like McCain is handled there is no two party system it is one party and it is a way to divide and conqure to keep up this constant you against me train of thought and to keep common folks from being open and free. Man I do not want to think if McCain wins and his vice pres is in office man what a mess that would be with her religion comming first.

here is a thought you know how they say the bible has been changed what if it is not the number of the beast being man but women and Pallen is pres. LOL and it is the number of the best is women LOL alright now I do not hate women I feel Hillary would have been better than Obama but what if? and what would that number be as man is 666 so what is womens number? LOL 411 for information haha

Finally someone speaks some sense. I would have said it had I had the time to write as much.

We do not have a two party system. We have a 1.2 party system. Because there is really almost no difference between them.

Love/Light 13 · 10-16-2008, 08:07 PM

I am a Ron Paul supporter myself who will be writing his name on the Nov. 4th ballot. However, to have a thread devoted to whether Obama is a Communist or a Socialist, with those being the only two options, seems to me to be a bit disingenuous.

Obama is not going to "redistribute wealth" at the magnitude that this post suggests. His tax increase for the top 5% will return the system back to the rates of the Clinton Administration, which would not appear to be as dramatic a shift as suggested.

I do not know whether or not to believe in Obama, but he is the best option we have right now, so I figure give him the benefit of the doubt. Who knows, he could be as clever as JFK, and could truely tranform this great nation.

best to all,

L/L 13

**********************************

may WISDOM guide COMPASSION

"out of MANY, we are ONE"

Eli in MI · 10-16-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anticomuna

Why don't you talk about his past AND the issues? In what book is there a law that make both subjects exclusive, either one or the other? Why not discussing everything that has to be discussed?

I don't really understand why some people are defensive when questions are asked about Obama. If he is really clean then what do you fear?

His past has been discussed. Perhaps you weren't aware that in the democratic primary elections earlier this year, Hillary went negative on a fellow democrat. It was unprecedented and Obama passed because he is clean.

I'm happy to discuss any NEW information brought forth about Obama, but to simply repeat the same debunked lies about him from earlier this year is a waste of time and energy. Do some research, it's all been talked about before, ad nauseum. Your claims are old news, and have all been proven false.

If you were interested in discussing the real issues facing Americans, I didn't notice. You never mentioned any good plans that John McCain has proposed, you only spread the disinformation and fear as fact, just as the PTB encourage. You're inadvertently working for the bad guys.

If you really think Obama is the one avoiding investigation, take a look at George Bush (your real enemy) and Dick Cheney. Take a look at Sarah Palin and then tell us that Obama is avoiding questions.

Taxing the rich is not class warfare. Lower and middle-class people are hurting. Some have seen their life savings slip away. Some have already killed their physical bodies. Have you no sympathy for other human beings? Do you really believe you're in the winner's circle of the capitalist game? If you are, congratulations on being a rich greedy miser; you belong to an elite group of jerks. I hope you've taken the time to donate to Kerry and Bill.

showmemo: I promise you, Obama does not want your guns. He categorically supports the 2nd Amendment. Please visit this page: Obama on Guns

Look, everyone here knows the President only has a little bit of wiggle room in our society. He can't change everything himself. But at least Obama provides the opportunity to maybe make things a little bit better.

We have seen what the typical Washington crowd does to this country. Take a chance on an until-recently unknown black man who has inspired and empowered people young and old, rich and poor, black, brown, yellow, and white, to take back their government.

He is a Christian who believes in evolution. He wants to get us cheaper health care. He wants people to get good-paying jobs here in America. He wants to help struggling families stay in their homes. He wants to end the war in Iraq and bring my old friend Will home. (His 4th tour now, I think.) And of all things, the only reason I'm even discussing Obama here, is that he provides this planet the best chance for disclosure of the ET presence.

The people of this forum should at least recognize that.

arcora · 10-16-2008, 10:52 PM

Geez.

People still wasting energy on the left/right paradigm sham.

Sad.

RSF · 10-16-2008, 11:15 PM

From someone who lives next door. McCain's a good Senator -- keep this Senator in the Senate where he's a spoke in the wheel and not the wheel.
Obama, if elected, will trip over his untied shoe laces a few times, but only a few times. Communist/Socialist -- no. Economically Ambitious and seemingly a a person who cares about the average joe & foe.
RSF

Anticomuna · 10-17-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli in MI

His past has been discussed. Perhaps you weren't aware that in the democratic primary elections earlier this year, Hillary went negative on a fellow democrat. It was unprecedented and Obama passed because he is clean.

He passed because the press keeps brushing off any criticism as "racism" or "negative campaign" or something else. Straight answers. Simple. The guy doesn't give straight answers.

For example, in the debate the excuse he gave was "when he did those things I was 8 years old". Nobody said he was there in person, nobody said he was a terrorist (some more exhalted ones did, but not the campaign), nobody tried to make him responsible for those things. All people is questioning is why would he join people like that guy, because it informs people about Obama's ideology and worldview.

Ideology and worldview. Obama is a socialist.

His ideas aren't even new. Here in Brazil we are overtaxed under the pretext that the government "must spread the wealth around". Is Brazil a paradise of peace and development?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli in MI

If you were interested in discussing the real issues facing Americans, I didn't notice.

There you are, using something else to change the subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli in MI

Taxing the rich is not class warfare.

How is it not? You will pay the taxes either way. Either yourself or in the price tags of the products you buy. Or in the form of less jobs because of higher taxes to businesses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eli in MI

Have you no sympathy for other human beings? Do you really believe you're in the winner's circle of the capitalist game?

I do have sympathy for other another human beings, I just don't have for socialists. Do you really believe that you are in the winner's circle of the socialist game?

Reunite · 10-17-2008, 01:01 AM

Obama refuses to salute the flag and national anthem.

I too thought most people here at Avalon could see the bigger picture. There is no right/left parties. Only one Council of Foreign Relations Party bringing about the NWO

Love/Light 13 · 10-17-2008, 01:23 AM

wow the negativity on this thread is tangible.

Let me just say this:

When the national anthem is played at a baseball game, or other events, people DO NOT always put their hands over their hearts. Does that make them un-American? The Pledge of Allegiance is the only instance in US culture when a hand-over-the-heart moment is considered mandatory. These right-wing, neo-con tactics on Avalon??? Come on now. Should we consider McCain "un-American" because he did not wear a flag pin at the debate on Wednesday, while Obama did? Of course not.

The left/right paradigm "sham" has been manipulated by the secret goverments for years, however that does not mean that all politicians are involved in this deadly game of chess. Being that Obama is about to take office, i think a little hope is a positive step for this country, regardless of personal belief systems.

If you want some insight into where Obama "comes from", read Dreams of my Father.

If you want an overview political and social objectives, read Audacity of hope.

I know there are his own words making the books extremely biased, however I believe him to be a genuine and intelligent man. I will be ridiculed for this statement, however I stand by my convictions untill proven otherwise on this one. Hope those of you convinced he is evil aren't able to say "I told you so".

Oh, and isn't the Neo-con/Rothschild/Rockafeller/Vatican/Israeli faction a group of racist Nazi's at the highest level? They would never allow Obama access to their hidden agenda, and I do not believe he has the personality of a "pawn", despite the popular opinion of the alternative media.

Just throwing my two cents out there...........

L/L 13

************************************

may WISDOM guide COMPASSION

"out of MANY, we are ONE"

Have hope

Reunite · 10-17-2008, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love/Light 13

wow the negativity on this thread is tangible.

Let me just say this:

When the national anthem is played at a baseball game, or other events, people DO NOT always put their hands over their hearts. Does that make them un-American? The Pledge of Allegiance is the only instance in US culture when a hand-over-the-heart moment is considered mandatory. These right-wing, neo-con tactics on Avalon??? Come on now. Should we consider McCain "un-American" because he did not wear a flag pin at the debate on Wednesday, while Obama did? Of course not.

The left/right paradigm "sham" has been manipulated by the secret goverments for years, however that does not mean that all politicians are involved in this deadly game of chess. Being that Obama is about to take office, i think a little hope is a positive step for this country, regardless of personal belief systems.

If you want some insight into where Obama "comes from", read Dreams of my Father.

If you want an overview political and social objectives, read Audacity of hope.

I know there are his own words making the books extremely biased, however I believe him to be a genuine and intelligent man. I will be ridiculed for this statement, however I stand by my convictions untill proven otherwise on this one. Hope those of you convinced he is evil aren't able to say "I told you so".

Oh, and isn't the Neo-con/Rothschild/Rockafeller/Vatican/Israeli faction a group of racist Nazi's at the highest level? They would never allow Obama access to their hidden agenda, and I do not believe he has the personality of a "pawn", despite the popular opinion of the alternative media.

Just throwing my two cents out there...........

L/L 13

************************************

may WISDOM guide COMPASSION

"out of MANY, we are ONE"

Have hope

No right-wing/neocon here...only truthseeker

My point is Obama is a CFR member like every neo-con/Rothchild/Rockafeller etc etc hence the inclusion into the hidden agenda. I choose to pay attention to alternative media like this forum vs main stream media where Obama is projected.

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/...obama_cfr.html

One thing you are right about is the Negative energy about this subject. It must be the conditioning from the haarp frequencies. All I was merely doing was providing an insight from another's perspective. In saying that signing off from the thread. Enough wasted energy

Peace out

Humble Janitor · 10-17-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love/Light 13

wow the negativity on this thread is tangible.

Let me just say this:

When the national anthem is played at a baseball game, or other events, people DO NOT always put their hands over their hearts. Does that make them un-American? The Pledge of Allegiance is the only instance in US culture when a hand-over-the-heart moment is considered mandatory. These right-wing, neo-con tactics on Avalon??? Come on now. Should we consider McCain "un-American" because he did not wear a flag pin at the debate on Wednesday, while Obama did? Of course not.

The left/right paradigm "sham" has been manipulated by the secret goverments for years, however that does not mean that all politicians are involved in this deadly game of chess. Being that Obama is about to take office, i think a little hope is a positive step for this country, regardless of personal belief systems.

If you want some insight into where Obama "comes from", read Dreams of my Father.

If you want an overview political and social objectives, read Audacity of hope.

I know there are his own words making the books extremely biased, however I believe him to be a genuine and intelligent man. I will be ridiculed for this statement, however I stand by my convictions untill proven otherwise on this one. Hope those of you convinced he is evil aren't able to say "I told you so".

Oh, and isn't the Neo-con/Rothschild/Rockafeller/Vatican/Israeli faction a group of racist Nazi's at the highest level? They would never allow Obama access to their hidden agenda, and I do not believe he has the personality of a "pawn", despite the popular opinion of the alternative media.

Just throwing my two cents out there...........

L/L 13

************************************

may WISDOM guide COMPASSION

"out of MANY, we are ONE"

Have hope

I have to agree with you and just to keep in mind, threads like this go against the true purpose of this forum and yet, are allowed to manifest.

Pomguymguy · 10-16-2008, 07:52 AM

Phew - This thread seems to be getting a trifle heavy man !

Looks like we are all 'thinking" things will be the same as before - Come on "GROUND CREW" -

or

We can put forth
real CHANGE -

can't we? ?

"The beatings will continue until morale improves"

stefaan · 10-16-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pomguymguy

Phew - This thread seems to be getting a trifle heavy man !

Looks like we are all 'thinking" things will be the same as before - Come on "GROUND CREW" -

or

We can put forth real CHANGE -

can't we? ?

Maybe we can (marching with millions up onto Washington DC?).
But can the next president change something?
If he really tries, he gets shot, don't you think so?
Remember JFK, his brother...

mntruthseeker · 10-16-2008, 03:33 PM

My family is also a rainbow of color and religion. Now the skin color I can handle, but the religion is all wrong

For one thing I believe that is the evil of the world.

You are right the PTB is already decided and I'm sure its obama but people, its up to us to make the changes as we know we can do it.............but only if we are trully awake and wake up more.

Would I ever believe that Huffinton Post would be honest in their opinion....hell no. the media is so disingenous in their stories...........I will wait to hear the tape that Jerome has. The media and press.........lies, you say go watch the movie zeitgeist...............did you miss that point?

so you're right, we know who is running the world....and I'm sure either one that is president will be running as the new puppet....I guess there are so many that really beieve in the redirect in the word "change"........... that makes me angry.

Do I think he is really trying to help americans? NO NO NO He is another puppet and fooling everyone. As far as the death threats go people...........I would like you to meet a few of my friends..........Larry Sinclair, Citizen Wells, Jerome Corsi, Andy Martin, Jeff Rense, David Icke etc. they get death threats everyday themself...Why..........for telling the truth...and if it wasnt true.... ........ why isn't it proven? Do you think we as citizens have a right to be told the truth? Show us the proof then............

We are all misguided by lie after lie after lie until we "wake up" I like to say grow up.... Go view zeitgeist agenda and think again about what the truth is

mntruthseeker · 10-16-2008, 04:56 PM

THANKS STEFAAN

Carol · 10-17-2008, 02:23 AM

For arguments sake let's say Obama really was born in South Africa and not Hawaii.

McCain is backed by the oil companies

Obama is backed by Rockefeller.

Obama is a socialist.

Now if each of these statements is really true.... which do you think has the most potential for real political fallout here?

10-17-2008, 02:50 AM

The topic of this thread can trigger subversive topics. Although, we try to be open-minded at Avalon, we enjoy good solid content. Also discussing racism in a thread is an easy trap for debate.

It is a challenge to stay on topic without getting emotional. But I don't see how racism fits into the question regarding the thread.

The question is: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist?

Well, I personally do not have that answer. I am sure that there are members that have opinions on this. But please try to back it up with real facts. This would make this thread more productive.

Although the question itself can lead to unnecessary potential negative energy. But we hope that there are people at Avalon that are more respectful to other members.

Remember we are a community. Let's try to have a rational discussion not a racial discussion.

Peace,
Suriel - Messenger of Light

gwynned · 10-17-2008, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The question is: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist?

Well, I personally do not have that answer. I am sure that there are members that have opinions on this. But please try to back it up with real facts. This would make this thread more productive.

The fact is that Obama is neither. How could he POSSIBLY be when he is funded by Wall Street? Frankly, I wish he were. I wish there was one politician out there who WOULD offer a real, viable alternative to Capitalism. But they all - including Nader - support the system, with their own modifications, of course. Cynthia McKinney may be an exception as today I heard her suggest we close down the Fed and truly nationalize the banks, not just bail out the bankster capitalists. But until someone suggests we nationalize the profitable companies (like Microsoft or the pharmaceutical industry), I think people can rest easy that the red flag will not be waving over the White House...

THE eXchanger · 10-17-2008, 03:44 AM

obama makes the hand signal too

THE eXchanger · 10-17-2008, 03:46 AM

obama and the devil sign

Eli in MI · 10-17-2008, 04:53 PM

Am I the only who who sees the irony and hypocrisy of condemning Obama's tax plan as "redistributing wealth" while John McCain proposes a mortgage relief plan that would take my tax dollars to pay down my neighbor's mortgage who got in over his head?

10-16-2008, 06:40 AM	#1
stefaan Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Heaven Posts: 186	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Communists? Socialists? In America? You're just kidden, don't you? Even if Obama would be communist, socialist, capitalist... it wouldn't change a thing. If TPTB want communism, they'll get communism (but they don't want it) If TPTB want socialism, they'll get socialism (but they don't want it) If TPTB want fascism, they'll get fascism (that, they want very bad) The president merely can change the surface, the image. Obama would be liked more abroad then McCain, that's for sure. Ok, that's something. The many PTB have their scenarios ready, all fighting to get theirs through. With Bush in place for 8 years, one scenario has had the advantage: the installation of fascism (search here or Google for Noami Wolf, Noami Klein and if you cannot help it: Alex Jones). Is this fascism a goal in itself or just the means to achieve something else? Difficult question. If we see the global financial collapse, the economic collapse; maybe also sudden climate changes, pole shifts or other possible catastrophes, then maybe you can understand why they want Martial Law in place to maintain law and order. Maybe they fear the public will come to realize how they have been used, exploited, enslaved, stolen from... for decades; so they fear an upraising, revolt? The things they see in the future are bad in their eyes, so they need Martial Law? It also could be fascism is the ultimate way to continu milking the people dry? Whatever. Fascism is being installed slowly but firmly. If you keep this in mind, what difference will it make, what president you have. And if it makes any difference, what president would you want? For instance, if you're convinced Martial Law is on it's way, what president would you want in that case? A hardened military man (with the risk Palin has to take over)? A softy family man? Hard times are coming anyhow. Who do you want? If you're thinking about communism, socialism... now... I believe you're really missing the point. Last edited by stefaan; 10-16-2008 at 06:44 AM.

10-16-2008, 06:48 AM	#2
Pomguymguy Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mooroopna Victoria Posts: 113	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Whoever gets to sit in the Big Chair in the Oval Office or stand behind the podium will be just like the rest of them - just ...... come on - you know the rest... thats one of the reasons we are all here at Avalon ! Which part of the 13th bloodline is he or anyone else that gets voted in .......................sorry - just fell off my chair laughing just then ! Last edited by Pomguymguy; 10-16-2008 at 09:23 AM.

10-16-2008, 04:13 PM	#4
UncaRay Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cosby, Tennessee, USA Posts: 20	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Obama is not a Communist. or Socialist, or a Capitalist for that matter. He is the current public representative of one faction among several that makes up the Kleptocracy which is the true system that rules America. The Kleptocracy, by definition, has no ideology other than greed. Wether or not he uses socialist ideas, or capitalist, their true purpose will be to make the Rich richer and the Poor poorer. This election is not a battle of ideologies, it is naked class war. The Rich against the Poor. Obama or McCain, for those of us making under $250,000/year (and that's most of us by a considerable margin,) there is no measurable difference. Write in Ron Paul, if you really want change.

10-16-2008, 04:45 PM	#5
showmemo Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 13	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? I really do not care for either McCain or Obama as they both are the same there is no difference just another shell game to have one fight with the other and to separate us and not let us unite on a common goal. Obama may win and the only thing I know is he will try to ban guns as he is anti guns and his leaders the true leaders want that as it scares them to see armed peoples that is why the rest of the world they took your weapons away already. So will it make a diffrence who is in office? nope as we all saw both McCain and Obama voted for the billions soon to be trillions of dollars to go to the banksters. Funny how the rest of the world thinks one is better than the other the last pres. who tried to take on these banksters was Kennady and he well I wont go there for he was a brave man and I do not think Obama is even close to being him, of course they may want you to believe that why else would they have him in Germany to give a speach of course so the human phychy thinks bake to Kennady and his great speech at the berlin wall. I would be concerned of how Obama used that as a lauch board to his NWO thoughts oh do not get me wrong I do not like Mcain and his lies on being a prisoner he sold out back then to save himeself do you know that all service men who where prisoners in vietnam got promotions and he did not he was the same rank that should say allot. So for all you folks who think that Obama is the bomb LOL far from it he is handled like McCain is handled there is no two party system it is one party and it is a way to divide and conqure to keep up this constant you against me train of thought and to keep common folks from being open and free. Man I do not want to think if McCain wins and his vice pres is in office man what a mess that would be with her religion comming first. here is a thought you know how they say the bible has been changed what if it is not the number of the beast being man but women and Pallen is pres. LOL and it is the number of the best is women LOL alright now I do not hate women I feel Hillary would have been better than Obama but what if? and what would that number be as man is 666 so what is womens number? LOL 411 for information haha

10-16-2008, 08:07 PM	#7
Love/Light 13 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 128	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? I am a Ron Paul supporter myself who will be writing his name on the Nov. 4th ballot. However, to have a thread devoted to whether Obama is a Communist or a Socialist, with those being the only two options, seems to me to be a bit disingenuous. Obama is not going to "redistribute wealth" at the magnitude that this post suggests. His tax increase for the top 5% will return the system back to the rates of the Clinton Administration, which would not appear to be as dramatic a shift as suggested. I do not know whether or not to believe in Obama, but he is the best option we have right now, so I figure give him the benefit of the doubt. Who knows, he could be as clever as JFK, and could truely tranform this great nation. best to all, L/L 13 ********************************** may WISDOM guide COMPASSION "out of MANY, we are ONE" Last edited by Love/Light 13; 10-16-2008 at 08:12 PM.

10-16-2008, 10:52 PM	#9
arcora Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 696	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Geez. People still wasting energy on the left/right paradigm sham. Sad.

10-16-2008, 11:15 PM	#10
RSF Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 226	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? From someone who lives next door. McCain's a good Senator -- keep this Senator in the Senate where he's a spoke in the wheel and not the wheel. Obama, if elected, will trip over his untied shoe laces a few times, but only a few times. Communist/Socialist -- no. Economically Ambitious and seemingly a a person who cares about the average joe & foe. RSF

10-17-2008, 01:01 AM	#12
Reunite Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 279	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Obama refuses to salute the flag and national anthem. I too thought most people here at Avalon could see the bigger picture. There is no right/left parties. Only one Council of Foreign Relations Party bringing about the NWO

10-17-2008, 01:23 AM	#13
Love/Light 13 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 128	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? wow the negativity on this thread is tangible. Let me just say this: When the national anthem is played at a baseball game, or other events, people DO NOT always put their hands over their hearts. Does that make them un-American? The Pledge of Allegiance is the only instance in US culture when a hand-over-the-heart moment is considered mandatory. These right-wing, neo-con tactics on Avalon??? Come on now. Should we consider McCain "un-American" because he did not wear a flag pin at the debate on Wednesday, while Obama did? Of course not. The left/right paradigm "sham" has been manipulated by the secret goverments for years, however that does not mean that all politicians are involved in this deadly game of chess. Being that Obama is about to take office, i think a little hope is a positive step for this country, regardless of personal belief systems. If you want some insight into where Obama "comes from", read Dreams of my Father. If you want an overview political and social objectives, read Audacity of hope. I know there are his own words making the books extremely biased, however I believe him to be a genuine and intelligent man. I will be ridiculed for this statement, however I stand by my convictions untill proven otherwise on this one. Hope those of you convinced he is evil aren't able to say "I told you so". Oh, and isn't the Neo-con/Rothschild/Rockafeller/Vatican/Israeli faction a group of racist Nazi's at the highest level? They would never allow Obama access to their hidden agenda, and I do not believe he has the personality of a "pawn", despite the popular opinion of the alternative media. Just throwing my two cents out there........... L/L 13 ************************************ may WISDOM guide COMPASSION "out of MANY, we are ONE" Have hope Last edited by Love/Light 13; 10-17-2008 at 01:31 AM.

10-16-2008, 07:52 AM	#16
Pomguymguy Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mooroopna Victoria Posts: 113	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Phew - This thread seems to be getting a trifle heavy man ! Looks like we are all 'thinking" things will be the same as before - Come on "GROUND CREW" - or We can put forth real CHANGE - can't we? ? "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

10-16-2008, 03:33 PM	#18
mntruthseeker Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,482	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? My family is also a rainbow of color and religion. Now the skin color I can handle, but the religion is all wrong For one thing I believe that is the evil of the world. You are right the PTB is already decided and I'm sure its obama but people, its up to us to make the changes as we know we can do it.............but only if we are trully awake and wake up more. Would I ever believe that Huffinton Post would be honest in their opinion....hell no. the media is so disingenous in their stories...........I will wait to hear the tape that Jerome has. The media and press.........lies, you say go watch the movie zeitgeist...............did you miss that point? so you're right, we know who is running the world....and I'm sure either one that is president will be running as the new puppet....I guess there are so many that really beieve in the redirect in the word "change"........... that makes me angry. Do I think he is really trying to help americans? NO NO NO He is another puppet and fooling everyone. As far as the death threats go people...........I would like you to meet a few of my friends..........Larry Sinclair, Citizen Wells, Jerome Corsi, Andy Martin, Jeff Rense, David Icke etc. they get death threats everyday themself...Why..........for telling the truth...and if it wasnt true.... ........ why isn't it proven? Do you think we as citizens have a right to be told the truth? Show us the proof then............ We are all misguided by lie after lie after lie until we "wake up" I like to say grow up.... Go view zeitgeist agenda and think again about what the truth is Last edited by mntruthseeker; 10-16-2008 at 03:42 PM.

10-16-2008, 04:56 PM	#19
mntruthseeker Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,482	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? THANKS STEFAAN

10-17-2008, 02:23 AM	#20
Carol Project Avalon Hero Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Big Island, Hawaii Posts: 2,008	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? For arguments sake let's say Obama really was born in South Africa and not Hawaii. McCain is backed by the oil companies Obama is backed by Rockefeller. Obama is a socialist. Now if each of these statements is really true.... which do you think has the most potential for real political fallout here? __________________ Aloha, thank you, do jeh, toda, arigato, merci, grazie, salamat po, gracias, tack, sukria, danke schoen, kiitos, dank u, mahalo nui loa Images to nourish the spirit: http://mistsofavalon.invisionplus.ne...&showtopic=198 Last edited by Carol; 10-17-2008 at 02:28 AM.

10-17-2008, 02:50 AM	#21
Suriel Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? The topic of this thread can trigger subversive topics. Although, we try to be open-minded at Avalon, we enjoy good solid content. Also discussing racism in a thread is an easy trap for debate. It is a challenge to stay on topic without getting emotional. But I don't see how racism fits into the question regarding the thread. The question is: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? Well, I personally do not have that answer. I am sure that there are members that have opinions on this. But please try to back it up with real facts. This would make this thread more productive. Although the question itself can lead to unnecessary potential negative energy. But we hope that there are people at Avalon that are more respectful to other members. Remember we are a community. Let's try to have a rational discussion not a racial discussion. Peace, Suriel - Messenger of Light

10-17-2008, 03:44 AM	#23
THE eXchanger Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spiritual eXplorer-Canada Posts: 4,915	Re: Is Obama a Communist or Socialist? obama makes the hand signal too

10-17-2008, 04:53 PM	#25
Eli in MI Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 38	Redistributing Mortgages Am I the only who who sees the irony and hypocrisy of condemning Obama's tax plan as "redistributing wealth" while John McCain proposes a mortgage relief plan that would take my tax dollars to pay down my neighbor's mortgage who got in over his head?