Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial - Page 2

HeidiLore · 09-17-2008, 02:14 PM

MNTruthseeker, that was very well put. Thanks.

Samarkis · 09-17-2008, 03:05 PM

I feel that it is important to note that the holocaust was real. I had met several dozen survivors and heard some of their personal losses.I had read dozens of books written by survivors. I lived in Israel for 6 years and went to Yad Veshem-the holocaust museum.

I am a mixture of Jewish Russian-Romanian-English-Irish-German-Austrian
as far as I am told.(Jewish & Lutheren Background) There were jokkes in my family that we had the potential for WWIII within our own family!!! Gladly to say, we have meshed and synthesized all the goodness from both!!!From both sides I am 3rd generation , so my family was here already during WWII.

Now, What have I learned from my unique position??? I measure things from how much good or pain is caused. The holocaust is real. How much of facts are purposely hidden to cover up fault. Real people suffered, including many innocent Germans that bravely stood up to madness. Many other peoples throughout occupied countries stood up and were punished for their stand.

I believe it is as complex as our Present. We have MANY people throughout the world standing up for the rights of Humanity and are getting the
brunt of the PTB. It is NOT just Americans standing up for freedom, We ALL have to realise that Humanity is more than we realize and that WE all have a purpose to live in compassion, Love , understanding & somehow Unity.

Are there facts that certain factions are trying to control and lead the different factions of peoples and commit atrocities to get their plan accomplished(through pain & coersion)? YES! Then as now.

I believe in the near future, all will judge themselves to see how much they have added kindness and compassion or not.

Please spread Kindness & compassion!! Spread Unity!!! Please help others less fortunate than yourself!! THIS is what truly matters!!!

milk and honey · 09-09-2008, 08:11 PM

There are no shortcuts to knowledge. Any subject of interest has to be researched for ourselves so that we can judge the value of each article and book. Otherwise we're just getting sound-bites through the filters of others, which have their place as far as it goes. Rense is no different to official sources on that score. Trust neither absolutely and look into it for yourself. When the tone of debate deteriorates into accusations of "denier" as it has with both the holocaust and the global warming issues then something is wrong with the argument itself. If a position can't stand on it's factual merit without hurling labels at the antagonist -- "denier" -- then maybe it is a subject worthy of attention. You must admit, it's an unfair way to demolish an opponent because no argument is required. "Denier!"... end of story. Case closed. Take him away.

09-09-2008, 08:15 PM

All I can say is that if it bothers you, go do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Do it objectively, take into account the views that are counter to yours and then balance out the final result.

09-10-2008, 04:14 PM

The holocaust is an area that I have done extensive reading in, and have had the pleasure of knowing two camp survivors. There is no question in my mind that the Holocaust was real. Denials of its truth, however, are only natural given the horrifying realities presented to us by the Zionist movment. It is only natural for one to look at the present day state of Israel and all of its geopolitical import, realize that indeed there is something very wrong, and then ask oneself, "are there other lies, untruths, and outright manipulation to further the Zionist agenda?" Upstreaming, as the anthropological community would call it, will lead to a reconsideration of the Holocaust. There are those who will allow the evidence to shape their opinions, and there are those who will always put the cart before the horse. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of racism - a constructed form of social division handed down to us by our forbears - injected into these debates. We must never forget that in Israel, like the United States, Western Europe, Saudia Arabia, etc., that domestic and international decisions are made by a small select few, while the people are drugged and tugged in the same direction, and often become targets of persecution for any act of discontent. The reality of the Holocaust is necessary for my own assessment of modern Israel: the abused becomes the abuser.

Anti-Zionist sentiment does not necessitate denying the reality of the Holocaust, as anti-Israel sentiment should not automatically be construed as anti-semitism. Those who deny the Holocaust, however, should be given a platform in a free society, and Jeff Rense should be applauded for giving them the opportunity to express their views, however flawed and incorrect they may be.

realitydesign · 09-10-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by historycircus

The holocaust is an area that I have done extensive reading in, and have had the pleasure of knowing two camp survivors. There is no question in my mind that the Holocaust was real. Denials of its truth, however, are only natural given the horrifying realities presented to us by the Zionist movment. It is only natural for one to look at the present day state of Israel and all of its geopolitical import, realize that indeed there is something very wrong, and then ask oneself, "are there other lies, untruths, and outright manipulation to further the Zionist agenda?" Upstreaming, as the anthropological community would call it, will lead to a reconsideration of the Holocaust. There are those who will allow the evidence to shape their opinions, and there are those who will always put the cart before the horse. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of racism - a constructed form of social division handed down to us by our forbears - injected into these debates. We must never forget that in Israel, like the United States, Western Europe, Saudia Arabia, etc., that domestic and international decisions are made by a small select few, while the people are drugged and tugged in the same direction, and often become targets of persecution for any act of discontent. The reality of the Holocaust is necessary for my own assessment of modern Israel: the abused becomes the abuser.

Anti-Zionist sentiment does not necessitate denying the reality of the Holocaust, as anti-Israel sentiment should not automatically be construed as anti-semitism. Those who deny the Holocaust, however, should be given a platform in a free society, and Jeff Rense should be applauded for giving them the opportunity to express their views, however flawed and incorrect they may be.

Nice summary of what I believe to be the case. I just couldn't figure out why Jeff wanted to link up to denial literature as it could be seen as discrediting him on a more macro level- since there is such an immense abundance of holocaust evidence. But I guess ultimately you are right- it is a good thing that he offers a platform for it - as insensitive and grim as it may be.

Wasn't it Voltaire who said- 'I disagree with what you say but will defend unto the death, your right to say it.'

punter2003 · 09-10-2008, 04:51 PM

interesting thread. Many peoples were murdered by hitler and STALIN even before the official date of the war. It was not only jews but any gypsy population. I think that the most telling fact is that the german population accept it as fact and that in german schools there is a gap of about 30 years in history lessons.

goody8504 · 09-10-2008, 09:10 PM

this is exactly why jeff rense's website demands so much respect. it seems far-fetched. but this alone will not stop a person of the quality of jeff rense. he will post anything as long as there is substance to the article. i have never researched the holocaust. all i have to go by is the textbooks that i read in school, which of course was written by the winners. everybody knows the winners write the history books. my point is this...jeff rense does not stray from articles that contradict "common knowledge". common knowledge, it seems, is really lacking these days

mntruthseeker · 09-10-2008, 09:32 PM

Yes, Jeff is a truly amazing person. just a few months ago I would be hissing - traitor to Jeff. Nothing surprises me now.

Of course, I was raised Roman Catholic and spent first 9 years in Parochial school. Not a total loss as I did learn to respect others, sort of. I never quite got the part about the one true religion and that was all I could associate with. I guess I was even a rebel then. I talked to Jews, Lutherans, you name it.

The nuns would have me drowning in holy water if they seen me now. I can't believe how "awake" I have become just by visiting Project Camelot, David Icke, Globalresearch and RBTnew. Of course I have to include Jeff which I just started reading from the remarks made in Camelot.

All the videos and information from these sites have meant so much as I always knew there was more to my life. It's been a real eye opener

I had to find it in three places that the holocaust is not what we have known before I got angry. So it's no surprise the world hates us so much. I now know that all the wars were so much and then some.

Jeff gets bounched around as much as Larry Sinclair.

I want all of you to know I appreciate all that you have done and put your life on the line for getting the true facts out there

You're all admired and thought of as real heroes. Since your site has opened more people have stepped forward which is truly amazing. thank you thank you!

What we are dealing with will cost all of our lifes now if people like you do step forward.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart

Love Peace & Light to all

Vickie

mntruthseeker · 09-10-2008, 09:38 PM

Holocaust is exactly as Jeff descrives it. The best place to start is David Icke. If you think Jeff knocked you for a loop, wait til you read David.

He has many many video's and the first time my son tried to get me into David, I told him, you're nuts.

Not any more. Once you check out his video's and research on these you will be so amazed.

This is what we need to get out and yes, we are running out of time.

You whole life will change and you will be right there with us trying to figure out why we never GOT IT before.

Good luck with your researching

JohnWdoe · 09-11-2008, 06:25 PM

I was SHOCKED to find out about the "gas chambers" in auschwitz had shambly doors and had rare if NO traces of zkylon b.

MANY people don't know of the lice epidemic in Germany during WW2 and if you do some digging you will find the gas was in fact used to clean the lice. I wouldent say people were not gased but in the droves were they gased? hell no!! They have so many contradicitons its just amazing, one says "they gased for days", when we did the tests in Auschwitz we found ten times the amount of gas used in the CLEANING room, why the cleaning room? to remove the lice! Since we know this know we tested the gas chambers and sure enough it does not make count, by the numbers of dead their should be much residue of use of the gas detectable (in the cleaning room it is HIGH) so now we have to come to the fact that based on how much gas was used in that room there was no residue, i think it works out to keeping the gas moving for only 30 minutes everyday to gas 1000 POWS, now you read the records and they tell us they were jamming them into rooms and gasing them over DAYS! IMPOSSIBLE and science does not lie here, it is not biased nor can be swayed - only people.

This is a big thing to some people but to explain it to you would take me weeks because its just TO big and the cause&effect are insanly large.

09-17-2008, 02:14 PM	#1
HeidiLore Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 25	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial MNTruthseeker, that was very well put. Thanks.

09-17-2008, 03:05 PM	#2
Samarkis Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southeast USA Posts: 548	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial I feel that it is important to note that the holocaust was real. I had met several dozen survivors and heard some of their personal losses.I had read dozens of books written by survivors. I lived in Israel for 6 years and went to Yad Veshem-the holocaust museum. I am a mixture of Jewish Russian-Romanian-English-Irish-German-Austrian as far as I am told.(Jewish & Lutheren Background) There were jokkes in my family that we had the potential for WWIII within our own family!!! Gladly to say, we have meshed and synthesized all the goodness from both!!!From both sides I am 3rd generation , so my family was here already during WWII. Now, What have I learned from my unique position??? I measure things from how much good or pain is caused. The holocaust is real. How much of facts are purposely hidden to cover up fault. Real people suffered, including many innocent Germans that bravely stood up to madness. Many other peoples throughout occupied countries stood up and were punished for their stand. I believe it is as complex as our Present. We have MANY people throughout the world standing up for the rights of Humanity and are getting the brunt of the PTB. It is NOT just Americans standing up for freedom, We ALL have to realise that Humanity is more than we realize and that WE all have a purpose to live in compassion, Love , understanding & somehow Unity. Are there facts that certain factions are trying to control and lead the different factions of peoples and commit atrocities to get their plan accomplished(through pain & coersion)? YES! Then as now. I believe in the near future, all will judge themselves to see how much they have added kindness and compassion or not. Please spread Kindness & compassion!! Spread Unity!!! Please help others less fortunate than yourself!! THIS is what truly matters!!!

09-09-2008, 08:11 PM	#3
milk and honey Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 222	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial There are no shortcuts to knowledge. Any subject of interest has to be researched for ourselves so that we can judge the value of each article and book. Otherwise we're just getting sound-bites through the filters of others, which have their place as far as it goes. Rense is no different to official sources on that score. Trust neither absolutely and look into it for yourself. When the tone of debate deteriorates into accusations of "denier" as it has with both the holocaust and the global warming issues then something is wrong with the argument itself. If a position can't stand on it's factual merit without hurling labels at the antagonist -- "denier" -- then maybe it is a subject worthy of attention. You must admit, it's an unfair way to demolish an opponent because no argument is required. "Denier!"... end of story. Case closed. Take him away. Last edited by milk and honey; 09-10-2008 at 01:02 PM. Reason: a word spell

09-09-2008, 08:15 PM	#4
BPhill Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial All I can say is that if it bothers you, go do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Do it objectively, take into account the views that are counter to yours and then balance out the final result.

09-10-2008, 04:14 PM	#5
historycircus Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial The holocaust is an area that I have done extensive reading in, and have had the pleasure of knowing two camp survivors. There is no question in my mind that the Holocaust was real. Denials of its truth, however, are only natural given the horrifying realities presented to us by the Zionist movment. It is only natural for one to look at the present day state of Israel and all of its geopolitical import, realize that indeed there is something very wrong, and then ask oneself, "are there other lies, untruths, and outright manipulation to further the Zionist agenda?" Upstreaming, as the anthropological community would call it, will lead to a reconsideration of the Holocaust. There are those who will allow the evidence to shape their opinions, and there are those who will always put the cart before the horse. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of racism - a constructed form of social division handed down to us by our forbears - injected into these debates. We must never forget that in Israel, like the United States, Western Europe, Saudia Arabia, etc., that domestic and international decisions are made by a small select few, while the people are drugged and tugged in the same direction, and often become targets of persecution for any act of discontent. The reality of the Holocaust is necessary for my own assessment of modern Israel: the abused becomes the abuser. Anti-Zionist sentiment does not necessitate denying the reality of the Holocaust, as anti-Israel sentiment should not automatically be construed as anti-semitism. Those who deny the Holocaust, however, should be given a platform in a free society, and Jeff Rense should be applauded for giving them the opportunity to express their views, however flawed and incorrect they may be.

09-10-2008, 04:51 PM	#7
punter2003 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: brighton Posts: 9	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial interesting thread. Many peoples were murdered by hitler and STALIN even before the official date of the war. It was not only jews but any gypsy population. I think that the most telling fact is that the german population accept it as fact and that in german schools there is a gap of about 30 years in history lessons.

09-10-2008, 09:10 PM	#8
goody8504 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Normal, IL Posts: 111	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial this is exactly why jeff rense's website demands so much respect. it seems far-fetched. but this alone will not stop a person of the quality of jeff rense. he will post anything as long as there is substance to the article. i have never researched the holocaust. all i have to go by is the textbooks that i read in school, which of course was written by the winners. everybody knows the winners write the history books. my point is this...jeff rense does not stray from articles that contradict "common knowledge". common knowledge, it seems, is really lacking these days

09-10-2008, 09:32 PM	#9
mntruthseeker Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,482	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial Yes, Jeff is a truly amazing person. just a few months ago I would be hissing - traitor to Jeff. Nothing surprises me now. Of course, I was raised Roman Catholic and spent first 9 years in Parochial school. Not a total loss as I did learn to respect others, sort of. I never quite got the part about the one true religion and that was all I could associate with. I guess I was even a rebel then. I talked to Jews, Lutherans, you name it. The nuns would have me drowning in holy water if they seen me now. I can't believe how "awake" I have become just by visiting Project Camelot, David Icke, Globalresearch and RBTnew. Of course I have to include Jeff which I just started reading from the remarks made in Camelot. All the videos and information from these sites have meant so much as I always knew there was more to my life. It's been a real eye opener I had to find it in three places that the holocaust is not what we have known before I got angry. So it's no surprise the world hates us so much. I now know that all the wars were so much and then some. Jeff gets bounched around as much as Larry Sinclair. I want all of you to know I appreciate all that you have done and put your life on the line for getting the true facts out there You're all admired and thought of as real heroes. Since your site has opened more people have stepped forward which is truly amazing. thank you thank you! What we are dealing with will cost all of our lifes now if people like you do step forward. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart Love Peace & Light to all Vickie

09-10-2008, 09:38 PM	#10
mntruthseeker Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,482	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial Holocaust is exactly as Jeff descrives it. The best place to start is David Icke. If you think Jeff knocked you for a loop, wait til you read David. He has many many video's and the first time my son tried to get me into David, I told him, you're nuts. Not any more. Once you check out his video's and research on these you will be so amazed. This is what we need to get out and yes, we are running out of time. You whole life will change and you will be right there with us trying to figure out why we never GOT IT before. Good luck with your researching

09-11-2008, 06:25 PM	#11
JohnWdoe Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 191	Re: Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial I was SHOCKED to find out about the "gas chambers" in auschwitz had shambly doors and had rare if NO traces of zkylon b. MANY people don't know of the lice epidemic in Germany during WW2 and if you do some digging you will find the gas was in fact used to clean the lice. I wouldent say people were not gased but in the droves were they gased? hell no!! They have so many contradicitons its just amazing, one says "they gased for days", when we did the tests in Auschwitz we found ten times the amount of gas used in the CLEANING room, why the cleaning room? to remove the lice! Since we know this know we tested the gas chambers and sure enough it does not make count, by the numbers of dead their should be much residue of use of the gas detectable (in the cleaning room it is HIGH) so now we have to come to the fact that based on how much gas was used in that room there was no residue, i think it works out to keeping the gas moving for only 30 minutes everyday to gas 1000 POWS, now you read the records and they tell us they were jamming them into rooms and gasing them over DAYS! IMPOSSIBLE and science does not lie here, it is not biased nor can be swayed - only people. This is a big thing to some people but to explain it to you would take me weeks because its just TO big and the cause&effect are insanly large.