Great Pyramid - Working model of subterranean section

[Kamikaze]

I really feel you are on a great track here.

I have encountered a brief suggestion to this water pump system underneath at some earlier time. I read something about it briefly at some forums some time back. I think it might have been you posting but not sure.
What I think I remember was that seemed people did not take it seriously at all and got sidetracked on how to explain this view away instead of trying to follow it's implications.

I'm glad I found this now in further detail. As I felt back then as now that it has great validity to the real truth what the Great Pyramid was really all about.

And I suggest you really check out Haramein! I think you might find something of great importance there to expand your theory and practical facts about your reconstruction of the water pump engine to the other parts of the system.

I'm surprised you hadn't read or listened to Haramein yet. I think I recall thinking I should have pointed the guy back then when I first encountered this into that direction but I was not a member of those forums or felt like to join those.

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by Kamikaze

I really feel you are on a great track here.

I have encountered a brief suggestion to this water pump system underneath at some earlier time. I read something about it briefly at some forums some time back. I think it might have been you posting but not sure.
What I think I remember was that seemed people did not take it seriously at all and got sidetracked on how to explain this view away instead of trying to follow it's implications.

I'm glad I found this now in further detail. As I felt back then as now that it has great validity to the real truth what the Great Pyramid was really all about.

And I suggest you really check out Haramein!.

I'll check out Haramein & the Pyramid Code. I'm completely open to new material.

It may have been me posting at the forum you mention. I generally post a bout 5 times and then get so annoyed with the massive ignorance and argumentativeness of the posters that I never go back. If I can't get the construction/locks possibility past them, how can I get to the pulse generator?

BTW, I "feel" that some sort of sonic levitation was used for construction. Water locks is a cool and simple possibility but my "memory" is of sonic levitation.

Anyways, bear with my quick vids. One day I'll get help to do something better. It was pure "guerilla video" ala Bill & Kerry!

Finally having fun writing on a forum again. Bill & Kerry gave me great hope when I came across their site. "Oh thank God, there's more of "us" out there"

John

[Christo888]

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

I'll check out Haramein & the Pyramid Code. I'm completely open to new material.

It may have been me posting at the forum you mention. I generally post a bout 5 times and then get so annoyed with the massive ignorance and argumentativeness of the posters that I never go back. If I can't get the construction/locks possibility past them, how can I get to the pulse generator?

BTW, I "feel" that some sort of sonic levitation was used for construction. Water locks is a cool and simple possibility but my "memory" is of sonic levitation.

Anyways, bear with my quick vids. One day I'll get help to do something better. It was pure "guerilla video" ala Bill & Kerry!

Finally having fun writing on a forum again. Bill & Kerry gave me great hope when I came across their site. "Oh thank God, there's more of "us" out there"

John

There are tours of the temples in Hawaii and every know and then... as the stories go... the chief will demonstrate how the percussion through his horn-trumpet shell will change the mass of a stone block so that it can be simply lifted into place and then perfectly sized to fit snug. Of course a different blast brings the mass back to normal.


So your brass turned purple? 'Sounds' like maybe there was a leprechaun sitting at the end of the pipe with a pot under the rainbow!!!!

Awesome work John!

[GregorArturo]

I'll second what Christo says. It defintely was levitation. Certain materials are easier than others, but finding a resonant frequency of a material is the key to understanding this. However, depending on the enviroment this can have different effects (as other frequencies can interfere or amplify).

There's an eqyptian myth that talks about how priests laid a parchment that contained a spell upon the block of limestone. He then hit the block with a copper pipe which causes the pipe to vibrate. The priests would then begin to chant and the the block would rise and move forward a certian amount of feet than drop to the ground. The process would then be repeated.

There's also a scientific inquiry I believe in the early 1900's by a British guy to Tibet who witnessed and diagrammed how the Tibetan monks chanted and played drums in accordance to a geometrical layout to levititate and move stone.

I have also talked in an interview with an individual who says she had witnessed monks do this in Tibet herself, along with laying in snow with barely any clothes on, but the snow melts all around them exposing the ground.

---

Oh and John, Tango's just jealous of my sexy distraction that I get to fall asleep next to each night, that's all. I mean who wouldn't be jealous about a girl giving up all her posessions to run away with you to roam the world (From Maine, currently in Arizona). And we have goose down sleeping bags that zip together, you can't beat that. You just can't. Next stop, Sedona.

[amate]

As I have been away for a few days I am reading through this thread again. I wonder about the purpose of the pyramids,
if they are energy regenerators to produce sound....then for what purpose?

I think WATER might be the clue here, as we live on a planet which surface is 70 % water and our cells consists at least for 70 % of water.

Then there is your English language with the word SOUND, meaning the “vibration” as well as “healthy”

I came past the question of Observer

Originally Posted by observer

It never made sense to me, all of those giant slabs above the Kings Chamber, and the "accepted scientific explanation" that they were there to relieve stresses on the roof of the room. Seeing the Kings Chamber as a massive resonating chamber sheds a whole new light on this mystery.

If the hypothesis of the "Pyramid Code" is accurate, i.e. that it is a massive subtle energy generator. And, if your hypothesis is also correct, that the pyramid was a hydraulic water pump. And further, it is felt the Kings Chamber is a resonance chamber. Than, my question is, to what frequency can the clapper in the ram-pump be tuned?

Is it possible to tune the cycles per second of the impacts to, say, the Schumann resonance? Can these mechanical impacts be "tuned" to resonate at a certain frequency? Is it possible the pyramid was designed to be some sort of giant "transmitter"?

I think those frequencies he is pointing at are very important.

Also the Solfeggio Frequencies should be considered.
http://www.miraclesandinspiration.co...equencies.html
They are beneficial for the chakras of Humans as well as the probable chakras of the Earth
When these pyramids could be huge “ sound producers” they were sound/healthy for the earth, as that is a living body with probably chakras as well, as well for its inhabitants.

As the wise elder on the “Pyramid Code” said, SOUND was a main purpose of the Pyramids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEvxFgVm31U

The “remembrance” of water has been researched by Masaru Emoto
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twili...arch_emoto.htm
Under influence of sound-vibration, water can come to great force (as I showed with the home video earlier in this thread) (comment #32) as water is able to remember.
This force can be used together with these big pumps, to make various sound-frequencies on a huge scale which has the reaction on water to become even a greater force.

In all the info on this tread I missed the information about the force that actually starts the pump to function!! A suggestion of this force must have been there!

I think a combination of all these phenomena might bring “some” further insight.

This was just some humble “broad” feminine thinking LOL
~

[McMaster]

Hello all! I thought i'll drop a line or two on this thread. Thanks for a great thread for starters. I'm a machinist/toolmaker by trade, and after having a look on some of Chris Dunns pictures i can pretty much confirm that machine tools have been used at Giza plateau. Obviously i can't say anything about how they were powered, but looking for example those core drilled holes, the feed rate achieve machining marks on the parts way they are, would've needed something VERY powerfull. Looking at the core sample photo, i would say the feed rate of cutting would have been around 0.5 to 1mm per revolution, and to achieve that even in a modern machine shop to relatively soft aluminium with a core drill that size, would be hard pushing.
So i would have an educated guess and say that with man power you would never do that.

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by McMaster

Hello all! I thought i'll drop a line or two on this thread. Thanks for a great thread for starters. I'm a machinist/toolmaker by trade, and after having a look on some of Chris Dunns pictures i can pretty much confirm that machine tools have been used at Giza plateau. Obviously i can't say anything about how they were powered, but looking for example those core drilled holes, the feed rate achieve machining marks on the parts way they are, would've needed something VERY powerfull. Looking at the core sample photo, i would say the feed rate of cutting would have been around 0.5 to 1mm per revolution, and to achieve that even in a modern machine shop to relatively soft aluminium with a core drill that size, would be hard pushing.
So i would have an educated guess and say that with man power you would never do that.

I've really enjoyed the intelligence of the posters on this thread. Learned much and have even more to share. Two way street after all.

Been watching the youtube Pyramid Code and it's a great series.

(posted on a different string)

This is Chris Dunn & Edward Malkowski at Abu Rawash. (part 1 of part 1) This is the "New Rosetta Stone" This is ultra significant in the double arc cut in that a straight saw cannot cut this.

http://gizapower.com/Abu/index.htm

This is coming out in Edward Malkowski's book "Ancient Egypt 39,000 BCE" due out in April. Great book in that it has Schoch, Dunn, some guy named "Cadman" and others in it. Lots of pictures of machined artifacts.

Chris went a bit tangentially and started working on the statue artifacts - mirror imaging and the like.

Got to see Hakim (in the vid) and that was cool. Hakim said that the pump set up is correct. Hakim also said that it produced hydrogen for the upper machine. I can't prove that part yet.

My favorite Chris Dunn precision is the boxes of the Serapeum:

http://gizapower.com/Precision.htm

It's very "Chris" in that it's technical but it is correct and profound (but a little dry). Only people that actually produce things can understand what 0.00005" actually is and absolute parallel and square sides on multiple granite boxes the size of a small room.

Considering the tolerances, there must have been temperature control for variances and cooling for whatever type cutting mechanism (diamond tip?).

Also the corner radii are outstanding. Chris visited me a few years back while Dr. Jack Kolle was here. Chris and Jack talked a lot about precision laser cutting in manufacture industry etc.

The one thing about the pulse gen that baffled Jack Kolle was the heart beat pulse. It's specific to the design and has something to do with overlapping compression waves travelling in the system. I can observe it but don't really understand it. Same with Jack.

It was amazing to have Jack watch the ink flow model and start calculating the velocity in the room and if it would be a turbulent flow. All off the top of his head and it did confirm my calculations. I had to use a physics book and calculator, though! (The water shoots across the room with a max velocity of 100 ft/sec - not bad for a 3 foot square water jet)

John Cadman

[GregorArturo]

I just realized that probably the next post will be "What about the frequencies!" Good point to the future who ever was going to bring that up. The acoustic sound would tune the water to the same frequency of the magnetic field to better resonate with the system. If the water can fluctuate at the same wavelength as the field produced by the pyramid, then the water would react accordingly (Yin-Yang effect).

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

The acoustic sound would tune the water to the same frequency of the magnetic field to better resonate with the system. If the water can fluctuate at the same wavelength as the field produced by the pyramid, then the water would react accordingly (Yin-Yang effect).

Water and vortex are both key elements in the pyramid system. Hakim said that the pyramid was a machine that ran on water and that the "waterman" represented "the person that had the knowledge of the water". The waterman is directly linked to the pyramids. Hakim also said that my model was the correct representation of the subterranean system.



I have encountered numerous anomalies from this system.

Dr. Patrick Flanagan ("Pyramid Power" with loads of experimental data) has since went on to producing water that the angle of the molecular bond is altered.


One anomaly that I encountered this winter is bizarre algae growth at the tail end of the vortex pipe (waste gate which would have exited at the Nile)

I just uploaded a vid of this growth. Background: New pipe, new plastic bucket, no water running through it until November this last year. I'm up by Vancouver, B.C. and November - present are the dark months. Algae generally doesn't grow much this time of year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLAHZJTwPGc

The pond has virtually no algae growth. Any ideas anybody??

BTW, the vortex used to spin the wastegate valve. I also had the most mysterious anomaly with this in the past. The only thing I can gather is that it has something to do with Schauberger theories.

John Cadman

[observer]

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

Water and vortex are both key elements in the pyramid system....

One anomaly that I encountered this winter is bizarre algae growth at the tail end of the vortex pipe (waste gate which would have exited at the Nile)

I just uploaded a vid of this growth. Background: New pipe, new plastic bucket, no water running through it until November this last year. I'm up by Vancouver, B.C. and November - present are the dark months. Algae generally doesn't grow much this time of year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLAHZJTwPGc

The pond has virtually no algae growth. Any ideas anybody??

These remarks in your #19 comment were the reason that I added the link to Nissam Haramein's video to my first comment #23 to you. I knew he talked about "charging" the water for irrigation of the land in his lecture, and how that related to the placement of the Arc of the Covenant into the pyramid structure.

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

....3 hours, 17 minutes, 40 seconds of part 2 of his lecture . . . caught my attention. (actually 3:18:00 but need context)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6&hl=en&emb=1#

This certainly would have massively amplified my plant (algae) growth observation -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLAHZJTwPGc

Super growth water formula for crop irrigation certainly isn't a bad thing for the populous. This may have been a secondary function of the Great Pyramid.

I'm going to try some experiments with just the vortex water compared to non-vortex water for specific plant growth. Great time of year to try this!....

I'm gratified that you found the Haramein material informative. I'm sure you will find less algae growth without the vortex. It's the vortex that's creating the hyper-dimensional energy "charge". Too bad you don't have an Arc to add to the experiment !!! LOL

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

....My mouth about dropped open when he showed the photos of the massive asteroid that went past the Sun back in 2002 (?). If that wasn't Nibiru I don't know what is. Twice the size of Saturn . . . WOW! Deflected from striking the sun by some force! Thanks!

A bit off topic, but this is just one talking point in the evidential trail I've been following that demonstrates why a good bit of the "channeled" material the Mass of Humanity is being force-fed just doesn't "resonate" with me. Why aren't any of these alleged "masters" mentioning this comet. It surely passed through the inner solar system. Could it be there is an agenda to keep us all in a state of fear? (that wouldn't happen, would it???) I find all sorts of inconsistencies in the "channeled message"....

[viking]

Hey John I find this thread facinating....I visited the Pyramids a good few years back but was too young too appreciate the enormity of them!! I do plan to go back sometime ...

Keep up the great work I love it...

viking

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by viking

Keep up the great work I love it...

viking

Thanks. Nice to get actual positive feedback. Generally get no feedback or get blasted.

Being told I'm wrong doesn't stop the model running, though!

John

[Daft Ada]

mate I have read the thread and watched the vids and I am convinced you are on to something with regards to the lower chamber being a pump, but I am having a hard time agreeing with your interpretation of it's purpose.
Now let me get this right, you reckon that the idea is that the pump generates huge pulses that go vertically up and compress the kings chamber, which because it's made from that kind of granite will emitt a huge electrical pulse. Is that right?

What would the purpose of that pulse be?

To my eye the path between the lower chamber and the kings chamber has got the queens chamber and some passages in the way which will unbalance the pulse.
Also I am guessing that pulses large enough to have the desired effect would shake the pyramid appart, it's only a stack of stones
If as you say that huge block of stone which is blocking the top passage is a check valve, and it slides back and forth once the pump is running, could you imagine the forces involved, think of a battering ram, I think it would destroy itself, just listen to the force in the small one you have built and imagine what you will get when you multiply the size of the valve in your model by many tons

I'm no expert mate, but I have a good engineering knowledge and I'm just asking

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by Daft Ada

mate I have read the thread and watched the vids and I am convinced you are on to something with regards to the lower chamber being a pump, but I am having a hard time agreeing with your interpretation of it's purpose.
Now let me get this right, you reckon that the idea is that the pump generates huge pulses that go vertically up and compress the kings chamber, which because it's made from that kind of granite will emitt a huge electrical pulse. Is that right?

What would the purpose of that pulse be?

To my eye the path between the lower chamber and the kings chamber has got the queens chamber and some passages in the way which will unbalance the pulse.
Also I am guessing that pulses large enough to have the desired effect would shake the pyramid appart, it's only a stack of stones
If as you say that huge block of stone which is blocking the top passage is a check valve, and it slides back and forth once the pump is running, could you imagine the forces involved, think of a battering ram, I think it would destroy itself, just listen to the force in the small one you have built and imagine what you will get when you multiply the size of the valve in your model by many tons

I'm no expert mate, but I have a good engineering knowledge and I'm just asking

I'm glad you took a look at the vids and understood them.

The block sliding back and forth is the simplest interpretation of a sliding square pipe horizontal waste gate using round pipe and relatively common parts. That valve would be down by the Sphinx.

The actual design is absolutely ideal when built horizontally. The horizontal valve allows for granite inlays for the sliding surfaces and the valve seat. The bulk of the thrust is then held back by limestone bed rock. Not likely to rattle loose 40+ feet of bedrock with granite valve seats (replaceable).

I certainly would suggest using one of those hollow boxes (sarcophagus) for the rectangular sliding block. That would reduce mass and other effects.

This valve area would be accessible for eventual wear and part replacement.

(I was a chief engineer on a King crab boat and had to rebuild and replace everything so these were serious issues)

At the end of the "dead end shaft" there may have been a check valve (flap). I put one in on the model, but it isn't required. It would also be consistent with the "dead end shaft" ending in a plane surface. It could also have been a gate valve for tuning the thing. No one over there is going to let me over there to do a test drill hole into the wall/flap.

The subterranean chamber is under no less than 100' of bedrock. This isn't going to rattle loose. The K's chamber has actually settled quite a bit as per the technical drawings.

The possible piezo effect was suggested by somebody else but I threw it out for interesting possibilities. I don't know what the whole thing did. That's what I'm searching for and looking for pieces.

Someone much smarter than me is going to solve this thing.

What I do know is that it was completely designed before being built. Someone was either phenomenally brilliant with tremendous calculations (pipe drag coefficients, dimensions, coupled with massive hydraulic pulses thrown in for complexity).

The more I identified each point of the subterranean chamber and it's specific design function, the more I realised how incredibly advanced the design is. As is shown in the model running, this pump does 4 things that normal ram pumps don't do.

1. Continuous flow without air compression chamber. (vortex rotational design)
2. No output check valve required (absolutely unheard of, but because of rotational design)
3. Able to run with negative ouput back pressure, neutral ouput back pressure, or the normal positive back pressure. To hydraulic ram people, this is absolutely unheard of. Hydraulic rams are very quirky about output back pressure and you have to tweak the valves to get them to run. This thing always runs first try.
4. Something Jack Kolle questioned about - The pulse gen runs with the heartbeat pulse (double pulse). Shouldn't do this. BTW, Jack Kolle is seriously the "Einstein" of hydraulic pulse gnerators and he checked it out and talked about implications. He designed the hydralic pulse generator assisted "look ahead" oil drilling set up. Genius, genius, genius. They send hydraulic pulse down well tube. The rarefaction wave (extremely low pressure wave) that follows the compression wave (extremely high pressure wave) increases drilling in shale substrates because the shale is under pressure from layering and the ocean pressure. The rarefaction wave sucks chips off the hole surface. That's 5,000 feet down a pipe.

The look ahead drilling is sending the pulse down the oil pipe and the compression wave strikes the surface at the bottom of the pipe and transfers part of the shock wave directly into the shale. This is done without removing the drill! This allows transducers to monitor the depth of the oil from pickups in the area (i.e. like they used to use dynamite on the surface and records the returning shock waves.



This last part is absolutely analagous to what the builders of the subterranean system were doing way, way back. We just re-invented this stuff. Genius, genius, genius! (Pulse down a pipe, with part of the compression wave transmitting vertically towards the center of the Great Pyramid)

It may also output hydrogen, but I can't prove this and would need a limestone model and scale could matter. Hakim said it ouput hydrogen.

The amount of pulse is absolutely mind-blowing. It's like being around a big block, fully blown muscle car. This thing is ridiculous and brilliant. The general thoughts from "shape effectors" was that the GP uses some of the subtle earth energies to get the shape to run. This motor is anything but subtle.

The Russians have the best shape research. Some seriously amazing stuff. Their anomalies are extremly well documented. Energizing water is one of the effects (had forgotten about that) that completely defies modern physics.

. . . or maybe it was just a water pump for a lock system to build the pyramid!

John

[Firinn]

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

Energizing water is one of the effects (had forgotten about that) that completely defies modern physics.

John

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

"This motor is anything but subtle."

The pump stopped after running since early November. The dogs were out of water!

Hi John, have you noticed any "changes" in your dogs since they've been drinking the water supplied by the pump?

Love
Firinn

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by Firinn

Hi John, have you noticed any "changes" in your dogs since they've been drinking the water supplied by the pump?

Just joking . . . Haven't had a control group so not sure.

Certainly worth considering and I'll try something with it in the future.

John

[amate]

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

Just joking . . . Haven't had a control group so not sure.

Certainly worth considering and I'll try something with it in the future.

John

~

Well, she certainly looks more relaxed "after WTF"

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by amate

~

Well, she certainly looks more relaxed "after WTF"

That's the result of her listening to some solfeggio. I was listening (for the first time) to some of the solfeggio toning, chanting, compositions on youtube. These are very powerful indeed.

John

[observer]

Richard Hoagland didn't discover that we are all being lied to at every level of reality, he just coined the phrase. When one does enough research, most critical thinkers will reach the same conclusion.

If one follows the evidence surrounding the Solfeggio Scale, one will be led to the conclusion that 417Hz was abandoned in favor of 440Hz Concert A in an effort to control the Masses. Just like the use of fluoride by the Communists & the Nazis, and the mass hypnosis through the major media, and the "Oxford Template" of the educational systems, and the secret occult clubs behind the political parties, ad nauseam....

All - manipulation of the Masses. All -"lies" at every level of reality. Why would one expect any different with what the "gods" of antiquity created on the plateau at Giza? These structural "creations", after all, are the foundations of the "mind control" program here in this particular reality....

[John_Cadman]

Originally Posted by observer

. . . we are all being lied to at every level of reality . . . When one does enough research, most critical thinkers will reach the same conclusion.

Absolutely agree and I agree with what you have presented.

Also ingesting deadly chlorine for water sterilization ?!? UV works just as well and probably same cost. And no bizarre side effects . . . like hardening of arteries via arterial plaque.

John

"The lie is different at every level" (David Icke or Bill Ryan?)

[observer]

I interpreted no disrespect from your Solfeggio remark, John. Actually, it amused me, (me and the WTF pooch groovin' to the tune of 417Hz - A major) and has given me an opportunity to introduce a new concept into the "secrets of the Great Pyramids".

I'm in no way trying to distract from the research John has done, here. There is no doubt a portion of the function at the Giza Plateau was to draw water into this hardly conceivable "machine".

If one studies alchemy, one will realize it requires the power of the four primary elements (water, air, earth, and fire [plasma discharge]) in order to effect an alchemical reaction. Water is a critical part of the function of this machine....

[Firinn]

Originally Posted by John_Cadman

Just joking . . . Haven't had a control group so not sure.

Certainly worth considering and I'll try something with it in the future.

John

Brought a wide grin to my face. Yes, please let us know how you get on when you try something with it in the future John.

Love
Firinn

[John_Cadman]

Sorry for being away . . . at the tail end of a divorce

Subterranean chamber vortex seems to being going in wrong direction according to Nassim. They could have had it go either direction. The function is the question.



Picture from part 2 of Nassim's lecture . . . (15 minutes into the 2nd half)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...75242307393956

Is the second side of the double taurus at the tail end of the pipe and in the water or . . . is it directed into the earth (directly below the sub chamber) and reacting with earth energies??

How's that for a bigger question?

Is it causing the earth energies to be tied to (coupled) the pyramid shape and structure?

John

BTW, I really like the casual colored Black Russian Terrier as opposed to the fully groomed and stacked picture! Just kind of groovin' like Patrick Flanagan in Hawaii.

[John_Cadman]

Watching Nassim again and this hit me . . . (it's a lot of info to absorb)

The compression "wave" isn't a "wave" but a compression vortex.

Watch Nassim at 3 minutes plus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJgGM...E88A8&index=18



I'm not proficient at artwork, but showing that the compression wave is actually a rotating pulse (vortex)

The subterranean chamber has confirmed water vortex. That vortex is rotating clockwise. The hydraulic pulse is also traveling up and down the same pipe. Since the "wave" is actually a "vortex" and is traveling through the same medium . . . ???

Need Nassim's help. Hopefully he will be reading this forum soon. I called Nassim's place in Hawaii yesterday and sent some links for him to view. We'll see.

[observer]

John,

I would expect the water vortex to rotate clockwise in your model. All draining whirlpools of water (vortexes) rotate clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere due to the Coriolis effect. (Unless you direct the water to drain in the opposite direction with some sort of opposing force) Look at the natural rotation of the water draining out of your toilet. In the Southern Hemisphere the rotation would be just the opposite.

If you are saying that within your model there is just such an opposing force to cause the water to drain anti-clockwise, or if you are suggesting that in the great pyramid itself there existed some sort of mechanism to cause a counter rotation from that expected, than I missed that supposition in your explanation.

I could be wrong on this. Let's hope Nassim can give some input.