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12-07-2008, 05:52 PM
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Avalon Senior Member
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
Hiya idunno,
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12-07-2008, 05:54 PM
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#2 |
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Avalon Senior Member
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
View Full Version : Nuclear battery
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {~}08.14.06, 05:30 PM I was going to post this in the nuclear engineering forum but my question is really more electrical. A beta emiter is a radioactive substance which radiates electrons (beta particals) in all directions. My question is, is there a way to generate electricity from electrons traveling away from a spherical source? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dlgoff08.14.06, 06:02 PM Most beta emitters (well the ones I've worked with) are not very energetic. Like C14; the particles can be stopped by a couple sheets of paper. But I quess there's a little energy you could gain from. I don't know how you would make a battery though. Regards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {~}08.14.06, 06:04 PM well wha if it were a strong source? Isn't ther any process in electronics where you might do something like this? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- berkeman08.14.06, 07:02 PM Put the emitter ball inside a larger concentric sphere, and connect the load resistance between the outer metal sphere and the inner beta emitter. Seems like it would work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chroot08.14.06, 07:26 PM Problem 1: A metric ton (1000 kg) of carbon-14 has about 6 \cdot 10^{29} atoms. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_14 (Wikipedia), Carbon-14 has a specific activity of 14 disintegrations per minute (dpm) per gram carbon. Thus, a metric ton of carbon-14 undergoes about 233,000 disintegrations per second. A typical hair dryer consumes 15 amperes of current at 110 volts. This means that approximately 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 electrons are travelling through the hair dryer every second. If you wanted to power your hair dryer with the electrons ejected by beta decay, you'd need something on the order of 30 trillion tons of carbon-14. Doesn't sound very efficient, does it? Problem 2 As the electrons are ejected from the atoms of a beta-radioactive substance, the remaining atoms become more and more positively charged. It would be quite difficult to continue pulling electrons from them indefinitely. - Warren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.14.06, 07:32 PM My question is, is there a way to generate electricity from electrons traveling away from a spherical source? I can't see this as any normal battery, because you arn't generating any holes for the electrons to move back into. OTOH if you simply put a sphere around the source it seems like the sphere should eventually generate a negative charge with respect to ground(in this case literally ground) Problem is that 1 amps worth of current for a second represents something like 6 X10^18 electrons. That is a lot of decay events. Using it as some sort of power source seems to be shy a few orders of magnitude. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.14.06, 07:37 PM Problem 2 As the electrons are ejected from the atoms of a beta-radioactive substance, the remaining atoms become more and more positively charged. It would be quite difficult to continue pulling electrons from them indefinitely. - Warren Do they? If C14 decays to C13 arn't the number of protons the same. The electron shels would stay the same with the same occupancy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chroot08.14.06, 07:48 PM How in the world is carbon-14 going to decay to carbon-13? Are you suggesting that somehow a neutron just "jumps" out of the nucleus?  Perhaps you do not understand what beta decay is: the decay of a neutron into a proton and an electron (and an electron antineutrino). Carbon-14 decays to Nitrogen-14 via beta decay. - Warren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chroot08.14.06, 07:51 PM I can't see this as any normal battery, because you arn't generating any holes for the electrons to move back into. OTOH if you simply put a sphere around the source it seems like the sphere should eventually generate a negative charge with respect to ground(in this case literally ground) This is not true -- this would violate the conservation of charge, which does not happen in any particle decay. - Warren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.14.06, 08:07 PM How in the world is carbon-14 going to decay to carbon-13? Are you suggesting that somehow a neutron just "jumps" out of the nucleus? Perhaps you do not understand what beta decay is: the decay of a neutron into a proton and an electron (and an electron antineutrino). Carbon-14 decays to Nitrogen-14 via beta decay. - Warren Fair enough. My knowledge of decay paths leaves something to be desired. OTOH this decay path generates a hole for an electron to move back into as in berkeman's post. PS: Wouldn't that have to be N-13 and not 14? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chroot08.14.06, 08:19 PM Yes, you could conceivably create a circuit, allowing the ejected electrons to move through a circuit before coming back to the sample. (I thus retract my "Problem 2.") And no, the decay product is definitely nitrogen-14. Carbon-14 has 6 protons and 8 nuetrons. If one of those neutrons decays into a proton (+ electron, etc.) the resulting atom has 7 protons and 7 neutrons, and is nitrogen-14. - Warren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.14.06, 09:12 PM :rofl: I never could add. What's the basis for the nuclear batteries used on some spacecraft? Is it something like this with a high rate alpha or beta emitter or is it a thermal process? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {~}08.14.06, 10:16 PM Spacecraft use a thermal process. The decaying source generates heat which is simply tapped into with thermal couples. I wasn't expecting to get one electron volt per electron emitted or anything like that. What I was thinking was to try and tap into their kinetic energy using inductance. They do, after all, have moving magnetic fields. Forget about the whole nuclear thing for minuet. What if you had a magically powered electron gun that could be used to power something else? How would you generate electricity from that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.14.06, 11:20 PM Spacecraft use a thermal process. The decaying source generates heat which is simply tapped into with thermal couples. This was always my impression, but this thread made me realize I didn't actually know how it was done. I wasn't expecting to get one electron volt per electron emitted or anything like that. What I was thinking was to try and tap into their kinetic energy using inductance. They do, after all, have moving magnetic fields. I'm thinking you might be worse off this way. I seem to recall that the ejection speeds are fairly low as such things go and with a mass of 10^-28g or so... Might do better with an alpha emitter. Don't know. Forget about the whole nuclear thing for minuet. What if you had a magically powered electron gun that could be used to power something else? How would you generate electricity from that? Don't see how. The efficiency would always be less than 100%. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- {~}08.14.06, 11:25 PM Does it matter if you don't have perfect efficiency? For the point of this thought experiment the electron gun is powered by something else entirely that we can't tap and aren't controling in any way. The electron gun emits an incoherent beam of electrons. We can't control the gun in any way. The gun could potentialy be a source of energy but the only thing we can manipulate is the beam. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Astronuc08.15.06, 07:42 AM Spacecraft use a thermal process. The decaying source generates heat which is simply tapped into with thermal couples. Radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs) have been used to power spacecraft for decades. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...ic%20generator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiois...tric_generator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems..._Power_Program http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/mes...dmess/RTG.html http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/safety.cfm http://sse.jpl.nasa.gov/scitech/display.cfm?ST_ID=705 ('Expanding Frontiers with Radioisotope Power Systems' - pdf download available) What if you had a magically powered electron gun that could be used to power something else? How would you generate electricity from that? :uhh: Magically?!? Well, an electron gun would produce a current of electrons, which IS electricity. Lower efficiency just means that one has to produce more energy from one source to get a particular amount of electrical energy. For a system of 25% efficiency, one must generate 4 kW of power from a source to get 1 kW of electrical energy. At 33.3% efficiency one would only need to develop 3 kW of power to get 1 kW of electrical energy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NoTime08.15.06, 07:50 AM Does it matter if you don't have perfect efficiency? For the point of this thought experiment the electron gun is powered by something else entirely that we can't tap and aren't controling in any way. The electron gun emits an incoherent beam of electrons. We can't control the gun in any way. The gun could potentialy be a source of energy but the only thing we can manipulate is the beam. Tapping the beam current seems to be the best way. Ie: put whatever you want to power in the electron return path. The beam itself would constitute a DC current, so you would need to steer it in and out of a transformer core or have a pulsed beam. Also you might get something using the Hall effect. Edit: Or thermal effects. |
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12-07-2008, 05:59 PM
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#3 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
Oscillation is the repetitive variation, typically in time, ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave A wave is a disturbance that propagates through space and time, usually with transference of energy. While a mechanical wave exists in a medium (which on deformation is capable of producing elastic restoring forces), waves of electromagnetic radiation (and probably gravitational radiation) can travel through vacuum, that is, without a medium. Waves travel and transfer energy from one point to another... Surface waves in water  >>>  <<<< read the Navigator’s name written > Columbus was 100%.......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_(geometry)[IMG]://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/1919_eclipse_negative.jpg/300px-1919_eclipse_negative.jpg[/IMG]  M-ir-ror >> so the unit vector ishttp://razd.evcforum.net/Age_Dating.htm (“The Language of Der Spiegel”)...., http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Throu..._%28episode%29  where  is the norm (or length) of  .The term normalized vector is sometimes used as a synonym for unit vector.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_vector ..thumb/a/ad/Spherical_coordinate_surfaces  Water on the moon - [ -- ]The spectrometer measures neutrons that are formed when the moon is bombarded ... those cold lunar shadows, and thus would probably evaporate and disappear. ... whyfiles.org/060moons/ourmoon2.html - 8k - In cache  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_spacePhysics Letters B : Conventional sources of fast neutrons in “cold ... - [ --]In “cold fusion” experiments with heavy water a source of neutrons is the dissociation of .... so that the radioactive signal could disappear with time. ... linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/0370269389905455 - door M Cribier - 1989 - Gain factors with the new supermirror guide system at the Budapest ... - [ --]to install there a cold-neutron source and a neutron-guide. system. A 15×27 m .... epithermal component disappears from the neutron spectrum, ... www.springerlink.com/index/0J62GN53PAY822KX.pdf - Gelijkwaardige pagina's door L Rosta - 2002 - Geciteerd door 1 - Verwante artikelen - Alle 3 versies Neutronic analysis of a liquid- He source for ultra-cold neutron ... - [-- ]UCN disappears by neutron β-decay rather than up-scattering. due to phonon annihilation. ... 0.316µeV (g < 76) at both boundaries (i.e. vacuum boundary ... www.springerlink.com/index/ADTD0RRVXK7F1FUL.pdf - Authors Y. Abe1, N. Morishima1 1Department of Nuclear Engineering, Kyoto University, Yoshida, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8501, Japan Abstract Ultra-cold neutron (UCN) production and storage in a liquid-4He source are evaluated by means of multi-group neutron-transport analysis. Using the cross-section model developed by the authors, a set of group constants for liquid 4He at many different temperatures down to 0.1 K is generated. Major results thus obtained are as follows. As the temperature is decreased below about 0.5 K, the UCN density shows a saturation behavior because of no significant up-scattering and UCN loss by neutron #-decay only. Single down-scattering of a 1-meV neutron and also multiple scattering of a higher-energy neutron contribute largely to UCN production. A high UCN density of 12105 cm-3 is possible with a high reflectivity of a storage vessel, say over 0.9999. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-set_topology In mathematics, general topology or point-set topology is the branch of topology which studies properties of topological spaces and structures defined on them. It is distinct from other branches of topology in that the topological spaces may be very general, and do not have to be at all similar to manifolds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold 
Last edited by idunno; 12-07-2008 at 06:25 PM. Reason: repetitive variation |
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12-07-2008, 06:45 PM
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#4 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
 Quote:
i? ...awakening from the dream 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG3ftoJhSKA What it Means to Be Real......... //I?..... it follows that almost all real numbers are irrational.[1] Perhaps the most well known irrational numbers are π, e and √2.[2][3][4] ....silhouette of the subject. The use of equal negative space, as a balance to positive space, in a composition is considered by many as good design. This basic and often overlooked principle of design gives the eye a "place to rest," increasing the appeal of a composition through subtle means. The term is also used by musicians to indicate silence within a piece. [edit] See also Mu (negative) Wu wei, a term in Chinese philosophy Ma (negative space), a word of Japanese origin used in art and design [edit] References ^ language definition ^ Referenced from several webpages including: [1] [2] [3] |
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12-07-2008, 07:31 PM
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#5 | |
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Avalon Senior Member
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
-do humans exist for ...
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS Lucian Ilea User ID: 350414 1/5/2008 7:46 AM Quote:
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12-07-2008, 07:39 PM
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#6 |
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Avalon Senior Member
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
Does Today = Yesterday? Return of the Gods, Looking at a larger picture shows the plan... Rating Options Track this topic
Switch to: Linear+ Orion von Koch Nov 13 2008, 04:28 PM Post #1 Conspiracy Theorist Group: Member Posts: 899 Joined: 19-July 05 From: West Texas Member No.: 21005 Educator, Journalist, Writer, and working international designer/ illustrator. Loves Archaeology, Philosophy, Science Fiction and Deep Stuff. We are witnessing the Rebirth of the Elite Gods with this Financial Thing. Yes, it is how they will divide the nation with the very rich becoming the gods and we the silly dumb people will become the serfs once again. We will wallow in the dirt of our own making. We will starve and fight and kill just to survive. We will lose our homes and cities via the Hell Wars that are about to follow the destruction of The United States by the Liberals of this nation. They will become the Gods while we live in boxes and stand in line to become solient Green. Folks, if you think it is bad, just hide and watch what happens when they take what little money we have now. Get ready to eat dirt. Human History May Change With Re-evaluated Studies of Data What if there is evidence that humanity was once just as advanced or more so than we are today? What if flying machines, cars, computers, radios, televisions, nuclear weapons, lasers, spacecraft, advanced medicine, genetic engineering, and master-building-design were representations of a civilization like ours only it was firmly held in the hands of the very rich and the politically-powerful elite? They might have ruled the earth via technology, fear, and supreme intelligence. They could prolong life and discovered the secrets of being and becoming. Compared to common man they seemed like gods and positioned themselves accordingly. Could our civilization be polarizing in this direction now, with the rich getting richer and the poorer masses exploding toward obscurity? Is this what the War on Terrorism might eventually produce? This small but highly aware power-group may have ruled on the Earth some 10,000 to 15,000 years ago (some say more). The evidence of this epoch setting period does exist everywhere, and it is reinforced more every day by the finds of archaeologist, anthropologists, and other scientists. The truth of some of their work never reaches the public ear however, because it would require a gestalt paradigm shift for most of us to even understand the implications of such enigmatic data. Instead, we are offered the preliminary-spin from cautious minds not able to entirely perceive the real meanings behind the remains of Earth's past history. To them, a fertility-cult is always responsible for whatever looks strange. The accomplishments of ancient man are many and powerful when one puts away the weak assessments and lack of creative thought by the learned experts from the elitist institutions and universities. It is as though there is and was a conspiracy among these folks to hide the truth of an incomprehensible civilization. One that has always been kept hidden behind a facade of ancestral worship, astrology, savagery, cursory bloodletting and other forms of supreme underestimation or outright concealment of ancient capabilities and intellect. The reality and mythology of the past is out of focus with academic assessments of actual artifacts. It seems they have forgotten where we are with technology today…with the capability to genetically reengineer civilization -- just like what must have happened to our ancestors or us for that matter. The collective scientific community seems to support one another in a common "story" about our past. Are they afraid of the truth or do they protect something much larger? Perhaps they protect themselves. Zecharia Sitchin has taken a scholarly approach to an Eric von Daniken-like theory of our past. He has torn back the veil of Isis to expose the possibility that we did and possibly still do, have gods of super advanced technology living among us or the stars. He has presented evidence of the Anunnaki, who were human-like beings from the planet Nibiru (planet “X” 39 au away, currently coming into our solar system?) living on Earth for perhaps half a million years. He has gleaned this evidence from the ancient records of the Sumerians, Egyptians, Hittites, and the Tiwanakuans of Lake Titicaca of Bolivia (before the Inca). His work is collected in THE EARTH CHRONICLES, a series of books dedicated to deep research into the why of such magnificent engineering accomplishments as the Great Pyramids, Baalbek, Teotihucan, Tower of Babylon, and much more. Even the Bible offers this information, yet many see it in the light of a lesser gestalt-paradigm and flippantly pass it off. Many of Sitchin's questions have gone unanswered by today's scholars who prefer to explain away phenomenal engineering feats requiring advanced thought in the simplest of terms. For anyone who has actually seen the sites such as the Great Pyramid of Egypt, the markings that run dead-straight for eight miles in the deserts of Nazca Peru, or even the beautiful constructions in Mexico--some of the puny conclusions by scholars seem totally out of context with the evidence. An example--a few years ago the Japanese tried to construct a 35-foot tall miniature version of the Great Pyramid, which is almost 482 feet tall. In the end they had to resort to modern earth-moving and lifting technology which ultimately could not do the job. Modern man had to abandon this attempt to emulate ancient man. The Great Pyramid is 2.3 million blocks of 5,000 lb. perfectly dressed stone. Stress relieving stones in the King's Chamber are estimated at 50 to 80 tons. In other parts of Egypt, stones weighing 200 tons were routinely positioned in the Osireion. Scholars suggest that the Egyptians would have had to position 6.7 stone blocks per minute in order to build the limestone structure in the 20 years calculated for the construction. If this were true, forces greater than any I am familiar with would have had to be used and I pushed around some large stones in West Texas. In the fortress at Baalbek in Lebanon, the use of 1,000 ton monolithic stones pique the interest of any thinking engineer of today, especially one who wrestles with 150 ton beams for some of our "massive" projects. Of course, there are thousands and thousands of unanswered questions like the above. Even von Daniken's work begins to take on a realness when one finds an old National Geographic from 1933 corroborating the "Band of Holes," that he personally inspected a few years ago. Each hole is a meter wide and just as deep. There are eight holes spanning 24 meters in width, marching in repetitive uniform fashion, from the Pisco Valley rolling over numerous miles of hills and mountains -- finally disappearing in the misty mass of Peru. These holes remind this old West Texas boy of the traces left by a massive drilling rig moving along methodically, testing the geology of the Andes for precious metals. Lasers have also left such tracings in the ground. Archaeologists say they represented defensive positions or graves for the ancient ones, except why would you bury anyone on a slope in rocky soil at more than a 45-degree angle? But my friends, there are tons of anomalies in the mysterious lands of South America -- Colombian models of delta winged forms, giant pyramids in the Amazon Basin, built on mountain slopes covered by inaccessible jungles and others are examples. Are these mysteries part of why Teddy Roosevelt was so introspective upon his return from the Amazonian adventure which eventually caused his death? This is an area where satellites from space represent the best vehicles for discovery of the great structures or patterns on the ground. The Amazon hides “tall, robust” civilizations of the past, that have been radio-carbon dated just recently to over 10,000 years old, and it seems we have not even scratched the edges of this area's massive hidden potential for learning the true “why” of its humanity. In Bolivia, the archaic site of Tiwanaku on the shores of Lake Titicaca represents one of the greatest question marks for all mankind. Here are the remains of a city with one of the most sophisticated sewer systems for even modern times. According to archaeologist Alan Kolata from the University of Chicago, he has never seen or heard of a better system. His awe is also taken by the remarkable agricultural system of canals and hydraulic systems that he is even now using to increase potato production for area residents. The raised field system used by the ancients must have occupied 400 to 500 square miles and could easily have fed the 100,000 or more ancient residents living on the arid Altiplano. One wonders what grand questions hide under Lake Titicaca. Kolata and Oswaldo Rivera of the Bolivian National Institute of Archaeology are currently excavating this great area which includes 2.5 square miles of an advanced form of building. There are pyramids with some interlocking stones weighing 160 tons. Many of the structures offer interior hydraulic systems that control water, which runs under and through the massive structures. It has been said that this site contains the biggest stone-built buildings in the Americas and everywhere archaeologists are finding that the concisely cut stones are interlinked by copper clamps to hold them together. Not even the more recent Inca culture knew to use the clamps. Many of the structures also use the interlocking stone work, which is famous in Peru, but a different twist is found in evidence at Tiwanaku. These stones resemble the work of a master gunsmith, with complex breach-locking levels and sophisticated cuts that have never been seen in any other ancient culture. No written language has been found but unusual designs that compare to configurations of today’s computer chips have been unearthed. How did these geniuses of engineering, make do without a written language? Some say the original language is computer compatible. If humankind could suffer a gestalt paradigm shift, thus enabling us to see anew the reality of what we are now discovering about life on Earth and the Universe, then perhaps we would realize that we have been here before. Some ancient records say that this is the 5th round of existence that we are experiencing. Cycles are in evidence everywhere in nature and in mathematics. Could the past records of Earth finally push human intellect beyond the little minds that we are now perceiving life through to a higher level of understanding, thereby letting us spring from the pedestal of this planet into the oceans of new learning that await us to finally arrive? And, when we do, will we know the territory when we see it? Unless we open our minds to this easily perceived potential -- of beings as advanced as we are today and more, thus impacting our current genetic and nano-projected civilization -- we will never attain the level of their past examples. It is so readily apparent when one sees "gestaltly" the whole record of existence. O M said, "This is our moment, this is our time." Is this code for those who know the plan??? This post has been edited by Orion von Koch: Nov 13 2008, 04:36 PM |
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12-07-2008, 07:59 PM
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#7 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
whosa --weeeeena--argh-->
 whats ..a vina?... is a vina (pronounced "veena")>> About...... > History (of с п a с E ртаm?) 
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12-07-2008, 08:03 PM
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#8 |
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Avalon Senior Member
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
 http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txtкосмос По-русски MEMBRANA | Робот-принтер размером с портальный кран распечатает дома - [ ... ]21 апр 2005 ... Робот-принтер размером с портальный кран распечатает дома. ... Более того, земная технология может однажды подняться в космос. ... http://www.membrana.ru/articles/inve...21/192200.html - 48k - In cache - Наука: открытия и исследования, космос и авиация, генетика и ... - [ .... ]23.10.2005 США: робот-принтер размером с портальный кран распечатает дома ... дом разрабатывает планы пилотируемых космических полетов к другим планетам ... news.battery.ru/theme/science/?newsId=1831698&from_m=smail - 54k - |
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12-07-2008, 08:04 PM
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#9 |
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Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 105
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Re: -do humans exist for the purpose of enabling water molecules to communicate? -
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