Police state UK

[Allie]

I've got to agree with your last paragraph, Andy

There is a massive state of dependency and apathy in parts of the UK. The dependency isn't necessarily to do with benefits, but in the notion that the raising of children is the role of everyone else - except the parents. Aaargh!!

Locally, there are so many people who berate 'someone else' because there is not enough being done in the way of activities for children / young people. Not a single one of them would be prepared to get off their sofa's and help out at a club or a fund-raising event. People are pretty good at moaning, but pretty useless at taking some action.

Working in a community is an absolute eye-opener. As I said in my previous soapbox, we really shouldn't be surprised at a Nanny state - our apathy is just inviting it in. We've become very inward-looking - and pretty darned litigious too. Some of the health and safety measures exist simply because people sue over the tiniest things and create the need for institutions to be very wary and careful.

Well, better be off. My toast has just burnt my mouth so I need to go and sue the manufacturers.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Allie

I've got to agree with your last paragraph, Andy

There is a massive state of dependency and apathy in parts of the UK. The dependency isn't necessarily to do with benefits, but in the notion that the raising of children is the role of everyone else - except the parents. Aaargh!!

Locally, there are so many people who berate 'someone else' because there is not enough being done in the way of activities for children / young people. Not a single one of them would be prepared to get off their sofa's and help out at a club or a fund-raising event. People are pretty good at moaning, but pretty useless at taking some action.

Working in a community is an absolute eye-opener. As I said in my previous soapbox, we really shouldn't be surprised at a Nanny state - our apathy is just inviting it in. We've become very inward-looking - and pretty darned litigious too. Some of the health and safety measures exist simply because people sue over the tiniest things and create the need for institutions to be very wary and careful.

Well, better be off. My toast has just burnt my mouth so I need to go and sue the manufacturers.

Wow you read my mind. Excellent post!

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Allie

I've got to agree with your last paragraph, Andy

There is a massive state of dependency and apathy in parts of the UK. The dependency isn't necessarily to do with benefits, but in the notion that the raising of children is the role of everyone else - except the parents. Aaargh!!

Locally, there are so many people who berate 'someone else' because there is not enough being done in the way of activities for children / young people. Not a single one of them would be prepared to get off their sofa's and help out at a club or a fund-raising event. People are pretty good at moaning, but pretty useless at taking some action.

Working in a community is an absolute eye-opener. As I said in my previous soapbox, we really shouldn't be surprised at a Nanny state - our apathy is just inviting it in. We've become very inward-looking - and pretty darned litigious too. Some of the health and safety measures exist simply because people sue over the tiniest things and create the need for institutions to be very wary and careful.

Well, better be off. My toast has just burnt my mouth so I need to go and sue the manufacturers.

Absolutely, we've got a community just like that in Ireland (one which people help each other rather than govt), I feel safe here and the wife and kids love it.
What's better still is the Irish love us for some reason

Don't get me wrong, Ireland's far from perfect, there's still some places here (mainly Dublin & Limerick) that suffer from occasional trouble but it's a world apart from the UK.

Is it Warburtons or the toaster manufatcurers you're going to sue btw? lol!

[Allie]

Re the Warburton/toaster manufacturer, I'm thinking the both of them.

Warburton's should take responsibility for producing the darned bread in the first place. If bread didn't exist, I wouldn't have attempted to make toast.

The manufacturer's of the equipment are without doubt culpable. How irresponsible to make a toaster produce toast that isn't automatically cooled down to the level of my sensory nervous system!

The irresponsibility of everyone else, eh?

I reckon I'm looking at suing for at least half-a-million

[Allie]

PS - Can I join your community?

I think I've had it with mine. I could of course live up to my own maxims and start my own.....now there's an idea who's time has come

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Allie

PS - Can I join your community?

I think I've had it with mine. I could of course live up to my own maxims and start my own.....now there's an idea who's time has come

Absolutely! There's loads of Brits here, along with a german and a dutch family in the village. I live just a few miles from Jeremy Irons and his pink castle lol...

You would definitely blend in well here with a sense of humour like yours for sure

[Allie]

I think that's more to do with your Council Tax, Patti.There's no obligation to vote per se - the average turn out at elections is proof of that

[Allie]

I'd fight with you but I'm off to Andi's community

It's the mere thought of that pink castle

[Allie]

By the way, Andi - my family is mostly French.

I suspect I have a kind of dual nationality that has an advatage in the UK - the Scots were strong allies of the French and my grannie was from County Cork. I'm currently seeking a Welsh link. Then I can't go wrong, really.

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Allie

I'd fight with you but I'm off to Andi's community

It's the mere thought of that pink castle

LOL! Actually it happened unexpectedly, he painted his castle a completely different colour (how it should have looked when first built) but it reacted chemically with the stone wall and turned pink..lol. The Irish had quite a good laugh at his expense
Google Kilcoe castle.

Patti- in Ireland us Brits actually have the right to vote for Irish parliament (but not for their senators) and of course the EU elections. I chose not to register and guess what, the lady who called at the house said that's fine, you don't have to register, bid me a good day smiled at the kids and off she went.
There is no council tax here...period. !!

[Allie]

Hi PattiSorry - maybe I was being a bit vague As usual Or perhaps I'm not thinking of the same form. I get one every year and it does say that you could be fined if you don't complete it. It's possible to complete it by phone if the information you gave last year hasn't changed.

If this is the same type of form then yes, it is often called an electoral register, and yes, there IS an obligation to list those over 18 who live in your house. However, its purpose is to determine from the information you provide, the number of people elibible to pay the council tax.

Council tax, is by law, an obligatory payment since it maintains public services. Because it's a law, non-payment results in a court summons. If you don't attend the court you can either be found 'guilty' in your absence or arrested. I've known it to happen. Councils chill you with the prospect of a fine because court proceedings cost them money.

[Jacqui D]

Whilst i have to agree with the young mum syndrom( living on benefits etc

I do think we need to take a step back and look at where it all went wrong with the kids today.
Yes there are many broken families, but there were broken families when i was a kid also in the early 60's.
I myself was from a dysfunctional family but it never made me into a lout, a drunk, or gave me behavioural problems.
I also agree that the women today have to work because they need to keep up with the social must have these days.
It took years to get your home together when i first got married, today they want everything right away, now i'm not saying that they are not entitled to the home luxuries etc but there is no saving today to get those things you want, you just get out your credit card and pay for it later.
Well the situation of finances today may put a stop to that way of living and the old ideals may have to re occur.

As for the kids, they do not want to work these days, most have a chip on there shoulder about what they should or shouldn't do.
They have no experience yet they do have all the answers, when we were younger we had to listen too our elders and we actually learnt from there experiences. The young have no respect for older people and treat them with distaste. I know there are still a few good kids out there whom this doesnt refer to but on the whole, most of the British kids today are selfish unreliable, drunken, swearing louts.

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by Jacqui D

most of the British kids today are selfish unreliable, drunken, swearing louts.

After I spent a year in a house in the N.E. with a bunch of terrorists who came around almost every night, enough was enough.
I had my car set on fire, wing mirrors kicked off 12 times, my neighbors window smashed 16 times, a lass run through with a samurai sword and then run over with a car while she was still screaming and bleeding and then my wife called a c*nt, b*tch and wh*re because she wouldn't buy white lightning for a bunch of yobs outside the corner shop because they were under age. She came in the house crying her eyes out and I just flipped.
I went out with a cricket bat...next thing I knew I was dragged off a bunch of lads by 3 coppers after almost beating the yobs to death. Not one single one of them had a father, none of them had a GCSE between them and they all had a criminal record a mile long.
There was also a police camera pointed at the shop for months because of the louts who stayed there and nothing was done day in and day out until minutes after I turned up with a cricket bat.
The cops couldn't even look me in the eye when they asked why I did it, they first said they'd charge me then I said I'd tell the papers and the BBC and explained what I'd put up with, I also reminded them of the pink pieces of paper which I'd collected from them for being a "victim of crime" for so long.
To cut a long story short, I took off and went to Ireland and put the house up for sale.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6383199.stm

I just couldn't look after a wife and 4 kids in that hellhole.
I will also never forgive the British army for what they did to me. If not for having a lovely wife and kids I'd have turned into a monster.

[blastawaycas]

I absolutely sympathise with andyh i dont live far from consett as you can see an in fact used to work in crook for 18 years and here where i live it can be at times just as bad just as violent. My two have grown up daughter 23 son 20 the daughter although working has about as much go and ambition as a broken locomotive and my son has never worked just goes to college has no respect and is aimless and we brought them up as best we could and gave them all that we never got as kids, i blame this modern culture too........ This video game, branded goods, it's only £200 culture!!, i've been abused by little scroats in the street cars stolen, taunted, vandalised and i would gladly pop a cap in there ass, but youre hands arent bound theyre strapped to your body. Drive at 35 mph in a 30 zone in top gear on a fine sunny day past a speed camera, or my mrs getting pulled for having "smart" on her number plate all letters & numbers legal, that catches the local revenue enforcement officers attention.

Its all gone wrong and there is no way to put it right, the best that could happen is a big shake up an event that makes these little carlsberg swilling coke snorting e poping wasters scroungers inconsiderate louts cry for mammy, whatever event that is about to unfold could be the best thing for our yoof!' and they might have to start looking up to us older generation for guidence and direction because they in general have not got a clue....but then thats just it is it not they are easier to cajole and manipulate and mostly control

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by blastawaycas

I absolutely sympathise with andyh i dont live far from consett as you can see an in fact used to work in crook for 18 years and here where i live it can be at times just as bad just as violent. My two have grown up daughter 23 son 20 the daughter although working has about as much go and ambition as a broken locomotive and my son has never worked just goes to college has no respect and is aimless and we brought them up as best we could and gave them all that we never got as kids, i blame this modern culture too........ This video game, branded goods, it's only £200 culture!!, i've been abused by little scroats in the street cars stolen, taunted, vandalised and i would gladly pop a cap in there ass, but youre hands arent bound theyre strapped to your body. Drive at 35 mph in a 30 zone in top gear on a fine sunny day past a speed camera, or my mrs getting pulled for having "smart" on her number plate all letters & numbers legal, that catches the local revenue enforcement officers attention.

Its all gone wrong and there is no way to put it right, the best that could happen is a big shake up an event that makes these little carlsberg swilling coke snorting e poping wasters scroungers inconsiderate louts cry for mammy, whatever event that is about to unfold could be the best thing for our yoof!' and they might have to start looking up to us older generation for guidence and direction because they in general have not got a clue....but then thats just it is it not they are easier to cajole and manipulate and mostly control

I can't see it happening forever, the idiots who let this happen will reap what they have sown. I see the beginnings of it now, that pathetic lisping git who earns £6 million a year getting shown up for example.
Remember the retarded lad who called the Chris Moyles show? I don't recall the BBC getting anything like the same hassle about that.

[Jacqui D]

This generation of delinguents are the adults of the future!!!
Well that says a lot doesn't it, if we have these emotionless beings running the shabang when we are old we have no chance.
There'll have us all done away with i expect why would they want the oldies just hanging on, euthanisia will be a law ruled in that'll do away with a few more i guess.
Can't help wondering if the young today have been programmed to be the way they are, the powers that be wants chaos and family dysfunctuality. The more traumatic mind of a controlled child the more easily held under it's spell.
Unlike the 50's and 60's generation who were rebels for a cause, survival conscience and down right more respectful than these louts today.

I cringe when i think about our future, England use to be such a wondeful place to be, where have those days gone?
Am i just getting old?
No there is something very wrong with life today and if the conscience lift of this planet is planned for the very near future i fear there will be just a few going on to better things.

I still say there are some good kids though just a shame there's not enough for a full blown leap so to speak.

[Southsea]

Originally Posted by AndyH

I can't see it happening forever, the idiots who let this happen will reap what they have sown. I see the beginnings of it now, that pathetic lisping git who earns £6 million a year getting shown up for example.
Remember the retarded lad who called the Chris Moyles show? I don't recall the BBC getting anything like the same hassle about that.

Hi,Andy
what's-location,of,the,community,where,you,are?
I'd,very,much,like,to,live,in,a,friendly,community .

(sorry,about,the,writing,
the-spacebar-on-keyboard's-bust)

[weareone]

as a a young british man (Early 20s) i would like to state i few facts, that i think the press dont like. 1) most young people are good, theres just a few bad apples. 2) With the exception of smack causing robberiesto pay for addiction, and crackcausing hyper-confidence and consequently some violence, young people on drugs are too busy enjoying themselves to commit crimes (its just a convient and believable excuse for criminals) . I am also really anoyed that the press never state any the good things that young people do; this is most clearly demonstrated to me by the fact that today when i walked through town with my hood up 2 seperate people crossed the road to get away from me and its winter and cold. so some young people settle their differences through violence, dont blame computer games, i think the youth of today have done well considering their are virtually no positive role models and many negative ones. And one final thing the generation that stood by while the tories sold our future (industries) and while bush, blair and brown etc lied to them about WMDs and then went into illegal wars should clean up their own generation, before starting on the future one. Sorry to rant on but today really anoyed me and sick of the misconceptions.

My personal opinion is that young people need older peoples wisdom, and older people need young peoples fresh ideas, and goverment needs to get away from the political donation sytems. Drugs dont cause crimes, criminal idiots do. Governments dont control the masses, the tv controls the masses.

This is only relevant to the post about new terrorism laws being bought in due to stabbings etc

[blastawaycas]

Middlesbrough borough council are knocking on doors asking occupiers to fill in the electoral regester............and further more i will tell you something about voting...........the government know who you vote for..........think not!........let me explain ,,,, (bear with me UK for international readers), when a general election is called, all house holds in the UK get a pollong card addressed to the person eligable to vote. Now on the day of the vote you take your polling card to the polling station (they are usually set up in schools town halls village halls libraries ect throughout a given borough, you hand in your pollling card the person who you give it too looks your name up on a geat long sheet of names, at the side of your name is a code number she or he writes this on your voting slip....get it.....you vote your local mp labour conservative liberal..whatever and its there for any official to check, thats been going on since i was old enough to vote i am 47 now 29 years ago..
so its not and never has been a secret ballot.

with regards to drug taking yoofs .............. why?
why does todays young seem to go out of its way to intimidate
when i was younger i (through respect) would never give the elderly stick,
and i live in middlesbrough brought up on council estates, the best xmas prezzi i ever got off my parents was a fidelity radio mw/lw
my kids have had everything and i am embarresed for them
no drive no ambition they dont want to know... i give up with em... and thats my kids, i have never raised so much as an eyebrow to them'

my son when he was 14 went out of the house 10.30pm walked around the corner and slashed a neighbours car tyres
you know what his excuse was...these were his words "i was on a mission".
he had just been playing for 4 hours on some video game, don't try and tell me it is not the games that cause some bother
have you ever listened to US soldiers in Iraq banging on like shooting everyone they see is like the greatest video game......come on

todays yoof wants a good kick up the **** and i reckon 90% plus of my generation reckon so

and you lot are part of the reason the country is like it is being on the set of some giant outdoor film plot,,,,,, cctv everywhere and the obvious erosion of our civil liberties

give you playstation xbox and whatever else, give you e's, give you coke, heroin, cheap booze, only tap your wrists when caught doing wrong, make you seem untouchable by the law, (childline, don't smack your children), then over 20 years of all this do goody good rubbish and it breeds what our younger generation is today, so that the PTB can take from us the civil liberties fought for by our forefathers.

todays young is blind only seeing what is in its best interests ..... all you under 25's step back from what you are, look at what you have done and breath in the world and prison you are creating.

Don't blame me or my generation, we've done our bit, start doing yours

give yer head a shake and sort yer piggin selves out

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by weareone

This is only relevant to the post about new terrorism laws being bought in due to stabbings etc

None of the new terrorism laws are anything to do with "stabbings". That was the whole point

[weareone]

to andyH i agree with your poingt and think that the knife crime is just a convenient escuse its not as though there is any more knife crime than ten years ago, its just better publicised now. And to the people who are blaming the youth for stricter government controls, the only people to blame are the government mis-informers; and if your so naive as to think that every young person has the same attitude then its no wonder it went a bit tits up. Im sure its just a few ruining it for the rest. Criminals are a minority amongst adults and they are too among the youth. most of them are good people, dont believe the papers or new channels! Peace

[AndyH]

No disrepsect here but I'm old enough to remember the UK in times when fist fights were in the papers.
Knife crime, drugs and yobbery is incredibly more severe now than it has ever been in the past. Many of the older forum members would agree with me on this.
The UK media is very good, if anything in times past even better than today, the police were also very effective and well trusted by the community.

Do yourself a favour, book a cheap flight to Dublin and walk the street. Take a look around and compare this to London.
Better still, take a drive out to Cumbria and take a look at places like Dent,Hawes etc. This is what ALL of the UK used to be like when I was a young lad.

If you are only 20 odd years old then you are used to what you see now and perceive it as "normal", I'm old enough to have seen Britain when times were much different.

If youngsters are worried about being perceived as "chavs" by wearing hoodies or nike caps then for goodness sake...take the damn things off, you'll save a few bob and probably a lot of hassle. The clothing has become a "label", it was as inevitable as night following day

[blastawaycas]

andyh totally agree with your last statement, and i too am sorry for ranting on about todays youth.......i do know that there are some good kids out there my own two are good but seemingly like the rest of todays generation they seem to be aimless and say some damn stupid things
don't also forget that the powers that be thatcher blair bush clinton brown reagan nixon wilson heath kennedy ect ect are a completely different breed to us normal people they are driven by greed and these people are puppets managed by puppet masters (the higher echelons of the illuminati)
but as a people we have made all this policing us fairly easy as david icke points out problem... Reaction... Solution
problem is ......gang culture knives access to drugs access to guns and ammo murder rape ect ect ect
reaction......do something about it mr brown mr bush
solution......id cards cctv erosion of civil liberties

do you not see where you are the cause of all these problems
(i am generalising) if i could i would address this to all these gang members scroats and crack heads............but they'd tell to
f*** o** then pop a cap in my ass

this brings me to another little point .......................................
I would not know where to buy drugs hav'nt got a clue
similarly with guns have not a clue...........
So who makes them available to all these gang members ?
I have my theories .... But that is all they are and would make sense to me as it is all part of the great plan

as an owld fart with very bad arthritis we are totally relient upon the generation of today..........if you could (generalising again) stop look listen educate yourselves and listen to the likes of the good people who write in these forums we might stand a bit of a chance.

On a completely different note is it me being paranoid (i don't wish to sound alarmist) has anybody else noticed in the past couple of days how everything seems to have gone into an uneasy quiet ..... Like the calm before the storm ... It might just be me but it feels so uneasy like something is about to go off
does anyone else feel this if not i am sorry for sounding alarmist


if this was a circus we would be having the roll of drums right now!!!!

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by blastawaycas

andyh totally agree with your last statement, and i too am sorry for ranting on about todays youth.......i do know that there are some good kids out there my own two are good but seemingly like the rest of todays generation they seem to be aimless and say some damn stupid things
don't also forget that the powers that be thatcher blair bush clinton brown reagan nixon wilson heath kennedy ect ect are a completely different breed to us normal people they are driven by greed and these people are puppets managed by puppet masters (the higher echelons of the illuminati)
but as a people we have made all this policing us fairly easy as david icke points out problem... Reaction... Solution
problem is ......gang culture knives access to drugs access to guns and ammo murder rape ect ect ect
reaction......do something about it mr brown mr bush
solution......id cards cctv erosion of civil liberties

do you not see where you are the cause of all these problems
(i am generalising) if i could i would address this to all these gang members scroats and crack heads............but they'd tell to
f*** o** then pop a cap in my ass

this brings me to another little point .......................................
I would not know where to buy drugs hav'nt got a clue
similarly with guns have not a clue...........
So who makes them available to all these gang members ?
I have my theories .... But that is all they are and would make sense to me as it is all part of the great plan

as an owld fart with very bad arthritis we are totally relient upon the generation of today..........if you could (generalising again) stop look listen educate yourselves and listen to the likes of the good people who write in these forums we might stand a bit of a chance.

On a completely different note is it me being paranoid (i don't wish to sound alarmist) has anybody else noticed in the past couple of days how everything seems to have gone into an uneasy quiet ..... Like the calm before the storm ... It might just be me but it feels so uneasy like something is about to go off
does anyone else feel this if not i am sorry for sounding alarmist


if this was a circus we would be having the roll of drums right now!!!!

Would agree with all the above except for this bit-
"problem is ......gang culture knives access to drugs access to guns and ammo murder rape ect ect ect
reaction......do something about it mr brown mr bush
solution......id cards cctv erosion of civil liberties"

The problem is not gang culture for the solution you presented.
The UK govt has always previouslymaintained that id cards and erosions of liberty have been the solution to muslim terrorists.

I've noticed a "war on knives" in the UK media recently which might perhaps be linking the above to what you mention (ie starting to state that the loss of liberties is actually for crime prevention). I wouldn't have seen that of course as I haven't been living there for a few years now

So to summarise...perhaps there is now this "new" solution being presented as being for chavs when it was in fact for terrorists to begin with after 9/11 ?

[AndyH]

Actually I'm not in Dublin, I'm in S.W Cork. A real backwoods middle of nowhere place
The long hours driving are a pain but it's well worth it aye.