Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

I love how everyone bashes the first zeitgeist for the start? Why is it false? What makes any religion factual, where are any facts indeed that are not stories or beliefs that disprove his findings which mind you are based on Jordan Maxwell and Acharya S research? What he says is very true, that it is one gigantic story. And in the newest one he solidifies this. His work is based on the research of Jordan Maxwell. I challenge anyone out there to research as much as this man has done. Everyone is very quick to write off things that are outside of there belief systems and ideas of what is reality, this movie is asking you to look outside of these pathetic illusions we believe to be true and WAKE UP!! Religion is the biggest tool of divide and conquer and prays on the weak minded. What Joseph presents on religion, and what Maxwell's research has shown is no more nonfactual than all religious belief structures and what they preach to be right! Religion is a massive tool in what they plan to achieve, and if you cannot get your head around that...........well then you have a long way to go. He may not be right in all aspects of the religious story, but who the hell is??? Not even religious scholars can agree on anything!!!! Hence all of the wars and bloodshed!

[bennycog]

i am just trying to get my head around how this movie can actually be one of the most perfect i have seen that really would wake, well, everyone up who watches it.
now dont you think that these elite would have prior knoweledge of such a tool to wake up the masses. they did not interesect and still have not.
does this show that they are now dead in the water or they were never there at all?

[swordsmith]

Just want to say I briefly met Peter Joseph ( Zeitgeist 1&2 creator) in London and found him to be a very sincere and even humble person. He took the time to talk with me and my daughter , we spoke about mind control, chemtrails etc, and what he was going to do next. He was a good listener , too.
I am thrilled with how he has worked out how to reach people where they live in his latest film, ie MONEY and the big lie behind it all.This could just work. And how incredibly timely, too!

It's a fantastic job and I think Zeitgeist 1 is a wonderful introduction for people who know nothing of the conspiracy against us, but are willing to take a peak behind the curtain at the string pullers.

I'm going to send this to all the people who thought I was talking bollocks.
I am grateful TPTB are taking the **** with this orchestrated money collapse, finally we may get some sheeps turning into peeps.

BTW, I also love Peter Joseph's voice as well as Carl's, kind of like a mental massage.Whats wrong with that?

[elirien]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem

I love how everyone bashes the first zeitgeist for the start? Why is it false? What makes any religion factual, where are any facts indeed that are not stories or beliefs that disprove his findings which mind you are based on Jordan Maxwell and Acharya S research? What he says is very true, that it is one gigantic story. And in the newest one he solidifies this. His work is based on the research of Jordan Maxwell. I challenge anyone out there to research as much as this man has done. Everyone is very quick to write off things that are outside of there belief systems and ideas of what is reality, this movie is asking you to look outside of these pathetic illusions we believe to be true and WAKE UP!! Religion is the biggest tool of divide and conquer and prays on the weak minded. What Joseph presents on religion, and what Maxwell's research has shown is no more nonfactual than all religious belief structures and what they preach to be right! Religion is a massive tool in what they plan to achieve, and if you cannot get your head around that...........well then you have a long way to go. He may not be right in all aspects of the religious story, but who the hell is??? Not even religious scholars can agree on anything!!!! Hence all of the wars and bloodshed!

lumping religion all together into one cult is quite wrong factually. jordan maxwell has many deliberate errors which he refuses to correct (like the other persons who use his research like tsarion and icke). I'm not pro religion but pro fact.

I could direct you to some sites that have checked their evidence if you'd like and feel that you are ready.

I would appreciate your links elirien please. Thank you in advance.

[swordsmith]

oh, and just wanted to say, the mode of highspeed travel mentioned by the venus project is apparently already in existence/use in the deep underground military bases according to Phil Schneider and others.
What would jet lag be like from 4000 mph travel ?

Originally Posted by elirien

lumping religion all together into one cult is quite wrong factually. jordan maxwell has many deliberate errors which he refuses to correct (like the other persons who use his research like tsarion and icke). I'm not pro religion but pro fact.

I could direct you to some sites that have checked their evidence if you'd like and feel that you are ready.

Yeh but what is fact to you? Like i say, what is fact or fiction? They are all just beliefs. See beyond the mistakes Maxwell makes, and the belief structures and holy books in all religious structures, it just confuses everyone. Maxwell may be wrong about some "facts", but that's not the point, the point is that religion has been used to brainwash society dude, not help.

Got to see the big picture, not these pathetic little factual games. This is what divides people!! Hence my original post. I never said it was a cult, i said it was a tool, a system to control, much like the monetary system we live in. Just another tool! Money divides people into classes, and religion divides people "spiritually" not that it is spiritual at all. I don't need to see the evidence, what is their evidence based on? The bible? What they were told in school? Geee sounds like everyone else. I have seen the Jordan Maxwell debunked links, I've seen them all. No need for the links thanks.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem

Yeh but what is fact to you? Like i say, what is fact or fiction? They are all just beliefs. See beyond the mistakes Maxwell makes, and the belief structures and holy books in all religious structures, it just confuses everyone. Maxwell may be wrong about some "facts", but that's not the point, the point is that religion has been used to brainwash society dude, not help.

Got to see the big picture, not these pathetic little factual games. This is what divides people!! Hence my original post. I never said it was a cult, i said it was a tool, a system to control, much like the monetary system we live in. Just another tool! Money divides people into classes, and religion divides people "spiritually" not that it is spiritual at all. I don't need to see the evidence, what is their evidence based on? The bible? What they were told in school? Geee sounds like everyone else. I have seen the Jordan Maxwell debunked links, I've seen them all. No need for the links thanks.

YOU COULD HAVE SAID ALL THAT BY JUST POSTING :

"CANT HEAR YOU, FINGERS IN EARS"

Curse those pesky FACTS, always getting in the way of reality.

The burden of proof lays with the producer of Zeitgeist. If he wants to convince skeptics & change peoples minds, he is going to have to be accurate.
And before you get stuck into me, I LOVE both films but am not so blinkered as to ignore the errors in the first one.

[Reveling John]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

The burden of proof lays with the producer of Zeitgeist. If he wants to convince skeptics & change peoples minds, he is going to have to be accurate.

Burden of proof? Who's trying to prove anything?

If you do not already have some inward suspicion that what you have been trained to believe and the *way things work* is profoundly false, these movies will not prove a damn thing to you.

Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum are confirmations of what those who resonate with the films feel as an intuitive condemnation of our society. An *intuitive* and *experiential* wisdom that this is not the way things aught to be and that anyone who is attempting to preserve the relevance of existing institutions and societal structures, or of belief systems like *religion*, *scientism*, and *history*, is utterly and dismally out-of-tune with the current wave of reality.

Proof and corroborative evidence are paradigms of a past system of belief.
Experience, what you feel inside, is the new truth and it will necessarily be different for every single entity who has an awareness of this existence.

Down with materialism. Down with abstractionism.

Welcome Experientialism.

What do you FEEL is TRUE?

Very Nice Movie

I think it's i very good movie to awake people, because it's explained
pretty good for 'normal' people. I already sent the link to much of
my friends!

I'm very curious about the zeitgeist movement! Hopefully it
will be such a success as Project Avalon!!!

[RaKaR]

Good Vibes to you, Reveling John,

Watching Zeitgeist was like listening to your own dream being, somehow, told by a third person. It profoundly resonated with my entire Essence.
I just wanted to do something. Straight away.
The conviction which i always have, that is, that there is not such a thing like fatality, that we, Humans, are co-creators - that the reality and the World we live in are but the result of my choices, decisions and deeds - is utterly strengthened by that Experience.

After i read the testimony of the first member at the thread 'Zeitgeist: Addendum - interactive', i went on to send the link to all the addresses i have on my PC - including even those of compagnies by which i applied for work in a recent or far past!

It is indeed up to us. It is Time for a Change a Paradigm.

I would like, in this respect, to find a way to bring the Perspective of Zeitgeist, as a Global Vision, in the context of the Communities, the Ground Crew, we are now building at Avalon.
One idea is to open a list of Avalon Members willing to go the Path of Zeitgeist; to have, already here within this Forum, some thorough exchanges of ideas about the Practical Ways Forward and to join The Venus Project - when it get launched, Oct. 10th, indeed - as a Solid Crew, united by Will and Convictions.

Any suggestion in this sense would be highly appreciated.

Peace and Wisdom.

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

[RaKaR]

Originally Posted by Levi

Very Nice Movie

I think it's i very good movie to awake people, because it's explained
pretty good for 'normal' people. I already sent the link to much of
my friends!

I'm very curious about the zeitgeist movement! Hopefully it
will be such a success as Project Avalon!!!

Hi, Honorable Levi,

I am utterly convinced that Zeitgeist/Venus Project will see the light.
The movement is already gaining some steady pace here, at Avalon.
In case you are not yet aware of it, there is a thread opened by Member Xammy, where the Practical Steps and the Emotional/ Spiritual Preparations towards this New Paradigm could be thoroughly discussed - 'What we are supposed to do' onder the section 'General Discussion'.

Behold The Future, it is within You.

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

[elirien]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem

Yeh but what is fact to you? Like i say, what is fact or fiction? They are all just beliefs. See beyond the mistakes Maxwell makes, and the belief structures and holy books in all religious structures, it just confuses everyone. Maxwell may be wrong about some "facts", but that's not the point, the point is that religion has been used to brainwash society dude, not help.

Got to see the big picture, not these pathetic little factual games. This is what divides people!! Hence my original post. I never said it was a cult, i said it was a tool, a system to control, much like the monetary system we live in. Just another tool! Money divides people into classes, and religion divides people "spiritually" not that it is spiritual at all. I don't need to see the evidence, what is their evidence based on? The bible? What they were told in school? Geee sounds like everyone else. I have seen the Jordan Maxwell debunked links, I've seen them all. No need for the links thanks.

First of all, if you don't like facts then you're entitled to your oppinion. i don't get mad at that idea. it's a ride. everyone doesn't have to search for fact and truth.

Although if you'd like to open up a little bit more and check out some christian guy's research which is not bible based but fact based then i can redirect you to these links (I didn't check them all out):


NTR - William (Bill) Cooper Debunks Jordan Maxwell

http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/en...3_45-07_00.mp3

http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowhere...%20maxwell.wmv

"Astro-Theology" is ********

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtmO36tmuT0

Nowhere To Run - Evidence for the Existence of Jesus

http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowhere...ntr_062108.mp3

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=36830437

Nowhere To Run Zeitgeist Challenge responds to Acharya S

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...54934404709290

NTR - The Nicaea Myth Debunked

http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/en...6_21-07_00.mp3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmS90DPa6cw

Zeitgeist debunking links
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com
http://ct.grenme.com/index.php/Zeitgeist_Part_I
http://www.preventingtruthdecay.org/...tpartone.shtml
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jes...ilarities.html
http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/compon.../catid,2/id,8/
http://educate-yourself.org/lte/zeig...dacharya01aug0...
http://www.zeitgeistresponse.info/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63630528394775
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPXc1QcmYDY
http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.p...on=com_content...
http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/.../zeitgeist-of-...
http://www.christian-forum.net/index...t=ST&f=15&t=14...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread286883/pg1
http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/compon...ret/Itemid,32/
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/is-j...d-aar-afb2.htm

source: http://www.conspiracyclothes.com/now...un/index1.html
http://nowheretorun.podomatic.com/

note: I couldn't care less if Chris White is wrong on his claims. Actually it would be quite nice if you could prove him wrong since that would further the debate.

Here you go guys.

[Zelphael]

Elirien,

When are you going to let go of the shackles you keep yourself in, and finally be free?

[Heretic]

from the similarities between the Jesus figure and many other figures found in theo-mythological texts alone, one can see that the Jesus story is not an account of the man who we base Jesus on but a superimposed character. These similarities should shock and alarm people concerning Jesus

these proofs are in the public domain and are simply a part of history which predates Christ, it is rather undeniable when compared to these mythological figureheads that the Jesus figure is a composite character

I have yet to see any explanation brought forth from the Christian community that can explain away the shocking similarities between the Jesus story and countless others that are near xerox copies of themselves

looking at proofs written by people desperately clinging to a beautiful belief structure that they refuse to let go of, will do nothing because the basic proof of the similarities of the Jesus story with older stories told over and over are absolutely undeniable

Although

lets not forget that the message the Christ myth brought us is very profound and has merit all on its own. We can certainly learn alot from it if we simply cut out the parts that require blind obedience and submission.

Do not turn your back on religion altogether simply because some of it is regurgitated rhetoric spoken from a priesthood of control. There is great wisdom to be found there and many great secrets rest in religion, especially the ancient ones.

peace

elirien....
Have you watched this:

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version - 111 min - May 5, 2007

Google Video Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67390173&hl=en

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

elirien....
Have you watched this:

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version - 111 min - May 5, 2007

Google Video Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67390173&hl=en

oh yeah man. wonderful film. I don't know if I had exactly watched the director's authorized version (it was last year i think). thanks for the recommendation. You should watch "The Corporation" if you still didn't old dood. It's like an introduction into these matters. man, if just the other forums were open we could have posted these as individual topics so people could have written comments.

---kinda spoiler---
Anyways, very good film starting with the federal reserve system and ending well like... Zeitgeist The Movie
---kinda spoiler end---

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Heretic

from the similarities between the Jesus figure and many other figures found in theo-mythological texts alone, one can see that the Jesus story is not an account of the man who we base Jesus on but a superimposed character. These similarities should shock and alarm people concerning Jesus

these proofs are in the public domain and are simply a part of history which predates Christ, it is rather undeniable when compared to these mythological figureheads that the Jesus figure is a composite character

I have yet to see any explanation brought forth from the Christian community that can explain away the shocking similarities between the Jesus story and countless others that are near xerox copies of themselves

looking at proofs written by people desperately clinging to a beautiful belief structure that they refuse to let go of, will do nothing because the basic proof of the similarities of the Jesus story with older stories told over and over are absolutely undeniable

Although

lets not forget that the message the Christ myth brought us is very profound and has merit all on its own. We can certainly learn alot from it if we simply cut out the parts that require blind obedience and submission.

Do not turn your back on religion altogether simply because some of it is regurgitated rhetoric spoken from a priesthood of control. There is great wisdom to be found there and many great secrets rest in religion, especially the ancient ones.

peace

just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.


note: Sorry for all the individual posts but I couldn't find a + quote button that would merge them all together.

Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.

[RaKaR]

Originally Posted by EpiphaMe

Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.

Absolutely correct, EpiphaMe, and discussions around particularly the Future oriented(solution) of 'Zeitgeist: Addendum' are currently held at the thread 'What we are supposed to do' by Xammy and the thread 'Zeitgeist: Project Venus Pioneers' (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=4658; http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=46230.

Your contribution would be highly appreciated.

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

[elirien]

Originally Posted by EpiphaMe

Excuse me, but this thread is about ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM, not the first Zeitgeist film (about religion). It's is not about Beliefs, it's about the FRACTIONARY MONETARY SYSTEM, explained in an easy to understand manner, the origins of the monetary crisis we find ourselves in....then goes on to talk about solution.

I'm writing this gentle reminder because after I had passed the link on to my friends the very day it was released, a few wrote back that they'd already seen it, assuming I was talking about the first Zeitgeist.

The discussions above indicate that you've lost track of the thread's title.

So talking about the films perspective on belief which was detailed in the first film has nothing to do with the film it self. Wow. Sorry but you sound like people that use the sentence: "I think god meant to say...".

It is a piece of the film. I think debating the details of a film is a indication that you liked it.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by elirien

just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.

I agree that Acharya's book was interpretive as far as trying to UN-define Christ, in fact it was a dreadful read and difficult. Yet that isn't the evidence that has most people scratching their heads. It is the near blatant similarities between the characters she claims he was based off of.

She really doesn't even have to do alot of convincing here for me. The mythologies hold their own weight. I have checked many of your links and none do any more than nit-pick on dates and minor discrepancies that in no way challenges the similarities as a whole. Most make a subjective attempt to pick on enough minor issues to cause doubt, and then cry foul because there are some minor discrepancies.

If it were just Horus, Dionysus, or Mithra and the similarities that border on exact matches on a couple maybe...but there are sooo many that it is undeniable that there is an existing blueprint out there that has been used over and over again. You can even remove Christ from this entire puzzle and still the the footprints remain of an archetype used over and again.

In fact if you read them all as one and it is a remarkable story. They kind of flesh each other out into to one big story. The rest of this is just semantics for me because most of it based on interpretation and conjecture that is relied upon just as bad as Acharya used in her own work. It's no wonder there are thousands denominations of Christianity. I think there is a spiritual crisis going on in this world for a very good reason.

Yet I am open to being wrong here, in fact that would be cool because this issue has alot of people asking questions. Screw all of the other literature on why anyone is or is not correct, the focus can stay only on the mythology to solve this riddle in my eyes. I would LOVE to understand more why the similarities are so remarkably alike amongst so many figures of worship in our ancient past, so I remain open to further proof along these lines only because the rest is just a quagmire of rhetoric that even the scholars cannot agree on.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I agree that Acharya's book was interpretive as far as trying to UN-define Christ, in fact it was a dreadful read and difficult. Yet that isn't the evidence that has most people scratching their heads. It is the near blatant similarities between the characters she claims he was based off of.

She really doesn't even have to do alot of convincing here for me. The mythologies hold their own weight. I have checked many of your links and none do any more than nit-pick on dates and minor discrepancies that in no way challenges the similarities as a whole.Most make a subjective attempt to pick on enough minor issues to cause doubt, and then cry foul because there are some minor discrepancies.

I don't think that these are minor issues if someone claims something and it is not based on fact but on opinion. Which mythologies have you read and of which similarities do you speak? I know of Horus that he was conceived by Isis who was impregnated by Osiris in the land of the dead (nothing virgin about her. You could even claim she was one sick **** lol).

Originally Posted by Heretic

If it were just Horus, Dionysus, or Mithra and the similarities that border on exact matches on a couple maybe...but there are sooo many that it is undeniable that there is an existing blueprint out there that has been used over and over again. You can even remove Christ from this entire puzzle and still the the footprints remain of an archetype used over and again.

Yet I am open to being wrong here, in fact that would be cool because this issue has alot of people asking questions. Screw all of the other literature on why anyone is or is not correct, the focus can stay only on the mythology to solve this riddle in my eyes. I would LOVE to understand more why the similarities are so remarkably alike amongst so many figures of worship in our ancient past, so I remain open to further proof along these lines only because the rest is just a quagmire of rhetoric that even the scholars cannot agree on.

I can understand that. But the main problem here is not what religion is but what Zeitgeist thinks religion is. As far as I have seen the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Quran are not solar deities that Acharya S, Zeitgeist and Jordan Maxwell (as well as the people that reference him like David Icke) claim he is. At least not on a historical, theological level and of course factual level. Once again, I'm not claiming anything but that these claims are proven to be false and must be corrected.


By the way, I totally agree with Alex Jones on his analyses of the second film. The Venus project just smelled centralization on the first watch and that is not a good thing for me. Someone in the David Icke forum mentioned that even before Alex had posted his comments. There are alternatives to what Zeitgeist and The Venus Project present for energy production and monetary solutions. I need to analyze marx and engels approach more to comment further.



These are my opinions which have nothing to do with the topic but I think I have to share:

I have people proving me that masonry, satanism, mormonism and many other conspiratorial beliefs are in their core luciferianism. Now why the hell would that be important to people that are very intelligent and do many occult rituals? Why do many conspiracy researchers abhore christianity, make these false claims that they can't prove and don't admit that they are wrong and that they can make errors (like any normal human being)? That messes up their credibility in my opinion and casts big shadows on their other works and sources.

It makes christianity look holier then ever in my opinion (and I'm not a christian) since it is being battled with such ferver to no success. I see the same thing with these unjust wars against the muslims that are raging on for years now. these people probably have some very important truth which is trying to be slandered and disguised for years.

[Reveling John]

Originally Posted by elirien

just check the info out my friend and especially acharya s. claims. there is no historical fact pointing to that as far as I have seen and if you got one get your butt over to zeitgeistchallenge.com and get your money of these dudes and please post your conversation with these people containing all info you have shared. I can't get myself to trust just Maxwell/Massey/Acharya S. rhetoric of existing evidence which I can't see.

I feel quite blessed by your informed skepticism, Elirien. It will only make the truth more clear for everyone. It is especially appreciated because of the heat you have to take from those who are still unsure of their own truth, and therefore attempt to bully you into believing (is this not what all religions do?).

Having said that, have you read this statement from the zeitgeist movie site?

(1) There are many in the religious community making films and posting websites denying the relationship of prior religions' influence on Christianity and maintain the disposition that Horus and others do not share the attributes the film claims. What is your response to this?

All Part 1 "debunkers" do one or more of the following:

(1) They attack / marginalize the messengers:
I have read countless posts where rather than reading any of the knowledge produced by a particular scholar, they simply dig up or invent some "flaw" in regard to that person and dismiss their work based on that association. For example, Thomas Paine, an American founding father, who was intimately aware of the Solar Nature of Jesus Christ and the fraud of Christianity, wrote about true Christian origins during his life. However, from the biased debunkers point of view, he was just a "Freemason" and therefore he must have some "Anti-Christian" bias and cannot be taken seriously. This is absurd. From another angle, people will marginalize certain scholars as "fringe" due to the fact that their information isn't "well known" and therefore not to be taken seriously. Little do they understand that the most important discoveries of our time always come from the minority. Historically, the majorities belief's have almost always been proven to be wrong over time.

(2) They do no real research:
Based on what I have seen, 95% of all "debunkers" who claim the information in Part 1 is unfounded have never opened anything other than the Bible and an Encyclopedia. 10,000 yrs of religious history is not going to be represented in any Encyclopedia beyond the most superficial assessments. (For instance, Horus had many permutations during the thousands of years he was portrayed, as opposed to the singular definitions one would find in an Encyclopedia) The other 5% have blindly read Establishment, Apologist literature on the Internet and nothing more. I have yet to be contacted by a single person who has, for example, read the total works of Egyptologist Gerald Massey or Egyptologist E. A. Wallis Budge on the subject and can argue any specific point. It must be understood, for example, that in regards to the Egyptian religion specifically, it wasn't until the late 1700s that the hieroglyphics where correctly interpreted to a high degree. This is important because for many centuries prior, this information was lost.

(3) They blindly ask "Where are the 'Primary Sources'?"
or ancient original texts. These individuals declare that 'If we cannot see it in the original texts, then it cannot be known as true'. Well, even though we do have many of the original texts from the Egyptian religion, many other religions have no available primary sources, and the information comes down through analysis of traditions that each religion practiced, as recorded by historians. The idea that the "original" must be available in order to prove truth is absurd and a double standard. Where are the original manuscripts of the Bible? And why are just four gospels used when it is well known that many dozens existed? Which does one believe? And what are the "primary sources" upon which the Bible stories were created? Who actually wrote them? Why isn't there any other historical documentation or supporting evidence? Is the whole species supposed to just believe one single book without any critical analysis or confirming evidence?
The bottom line is that analysis of religious ideas is not confined to what is "on paper" as all religions are slowly evolving structures where 'Tradition' is just as important as 'Scripture'. Many early religions did not have official texts but communicated their beliefs through traditional practice. The historians' documentation that account for these practices are all we have in certain instances. This should not be dismissed and should rather be taken in with everything else to reach a logical, cumulative understanding. Collectively, the primary sources that are available, coupled with the historian documentation, present an overwhelming amount of evidence to support the argument that Judaism, Islam and Christianity specifically, are manifestations of a gross misinterpretation of prior mythology. This mythology is rooted in the Solar and Stellar cults of the ancient world.

(4) They projected their own subjective interpretation of a piece of information by using "semantic manipulation". Rather than making an objective assessment about presented information in context, situations are narrowly defined and adapted to the debunkers cause by redefining the terms by which the meaning is extrapolated. This is classic religion. Seeing things that are not there, or only that which fits the dogmatic belief system, is a staple of the interpretive mess, self projecting "believers" maintain.

Anyone who questions any part of Part 1 should first go through the Interactive Transcript and then begin reading the sources. I also highly recommend Acharya's Companion Guide which elaborates on the Egyptian aspects more thoroughly. She has also produced
a Video Response.

Maybe this little bit should be posted amongst all the debunker forums so that they can adequately respond.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by Reveling John

I feel quite blessed by your informed skepticism, Elirien. It will only make the truth more clear for everyone. It is especially appreciated because of the heat you have to take from those who are still unsure of their own truth, and therefore attempt to bully you into believing (is this not what all religions do?).

Having said that, have you read this statement from the zeitgeist movie site?

Maybe this little bit should be posted amongst all the debunker forums so that they can adequately respond.

Thank you for your kind words Reveling John. Believe me, I'm just trying to further the debate. I mostly can't get bothered with posts that don't add anything to the debate. Although it sometimes saddens me to see the type of posts that you pointed out. Loved your opinion on religious behavior by the way

I've read that section of their site. I was quite 'enchanted' during the times when I first watched Zeitgeist and that was the time when I read that section.

On that:

- -This is just my opinion- The style in which the q&a is written is awful. I mean it just smells ego and non-debatability. What are these words? They blindly ask "Where are the 'Primary Sources'?". Let's move on.

- Well we had this very good debate with TranceAM about Thomas Paine right here on this forum: http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...?t=1700&page=2

- I'm not sure about Massey. One of his books was thrown before me as 'evidence' but I didn't have time to read what this individual wrote. I could use some input on this one since the refutal people have quite the books on this subject (which are non-biblical and some are written by pagan-roman historians). I will check his stuff later on. His wikipedia page doesn't look promising but let's be unbiased.

By the way I found this site (which I had the time to only read briefly). Very interesting stuff on this very subject:

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/art...geist/part-one

Take care. Will look into this tomorrow. It's too late for research