Abraxas has been enjoined and his group is closed Edited

[K626]

Originally Posted by Steven

I will send you the resume of the event in private mail. I prefere to keep it this way . I know you will understand.

Namaste, Steven

And me please Stefanus.

[THE eXchanger]

a member here, gets publically humiliated,
and, accused of one of the most serious things of all,
and, it is NOT to be made public ???

where is THE TRUTH, in that ???

[Steven]

Originally Posted by THE eXchanger

a member here, gets publically humiliated,
and, accused of one of the most serious things of all,
and, it is NOT to be made public ???

where is THE TRUTH, in that ???

I said it wasn't about Abraxassinas, but the ones behind the thuban material. I have not made humiliation, nor accused anyone here. It is my right to ask to keep this event private and it is totally relevant and understandable.

Just calm down Susan.

Namaste, Steven

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by THE eXchanger

a member here, gets publically humiliated,
and, accused of one of the most serious things of all,
and, it is NOT to be made public ???

where is THE TRUTH, in that ???

I have to agree with the idea that anonymous accusation is insane. I can't think of a more insidious way of attacking with impunity than through anonymous accusation. Anything can be done under that blanket umbrella.

People have a right to know "was an action just, or not".

[Céline]

people have a right to know what?

the name of the accuser? Have you seen how viral this topic has gotten??

wouldnt that now be like throwing her to the wolves?? if the community had responded with warmth can coppasion perhaps they would have come out of the perverbial closet themselves

Just try..try to look past your anger at me ..and all the things unsaid..

and just use compassion...

hate me or not...despise what i say or how i say it... WE are ALL here for ONE reason...

The same reason..the same goal MP2...

i love you.

[Myplanet2]

Her? From Richards original announcement "After receiving complaints of sexual harassment by several members of the forum against the user abraxasinas."

So now several members has become a her, and in the latest announcement in the restoration of the Q&A thread, it becomes some vague reference to Abraxasinas activities on this forum and some posting in the social group.

Is that rat smell in the air.

Well, you know what they say, No accuser...no crime. I guess it's time to bring Abraxasinas back, since nothing has really happened.

Bring Abraxasinas back. Bring Abraxasinas back. Bring abraxasinas back. (and on and on)

We can play villager too.

[Céline]

Stop nit picking..

it seems you love abraxas very much, i am glad..he needs it.

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by Céline

Stop nit picking..

it seems you love abraxas very much, i am glad..he needs it.

No. I neither like nor dislike abraxas. He's done nothing to attract my ire. But I loath injustice.

Unban him. or produce evidence. or listen to me squawk. or ban me. or ignore me. tons of options on the table.

[Céline]

my option..my choice is to love him..to love you..and to learn from my mistakes..

can you learn from your mistakes MP2?

[K626]

Ah...the moment before the moment....

[THE eXchanger]

pa/pc is first, and, fore-most

a research site

NOT a soap opera

~ if someone had accused you of this,
how would you feel, when you can NOT even speak,
to defend yourself

There is a good learning lesson, you know, in all of this

hunt for your answers within

if you play with fire, your fingers, can get burned

if you maliciously try to take another down,
with NO due cause, you will end up,
getting taken down yourself

the sooner, people learn,
to respect other peoples opinions,
and, state simply truth, as, truth actually is,
the faster, people will exchange,
and, they will learn

that is, the key to 'real' research

let the truth, be known

[Céline]

Originally Posted by THE eXchanger

pa/pc is first, and, fore-most

a research site

NOT a soap opera

~ if someone had accused you of this,
how would you feel, when you can NOT even speak,
to defend yourself

There is a good learning lesson, you know, in all of this

hunt for your answers within

if you play with fire, your fingers, can get burned

if you maliciously try to take another down,
with NO due cause, you will end up,
getting taken down yourself

the sooner, people learn,
to respect other peoples opinions,
and, state simply truth, as, truth actually is,
the faster, people will exchange,
and, they will learn

that is, the key to 'real' research

let the truth, be known

If you were at work...and your boss sexually harrassed you...would you be required to PUBLICALY tell everyone at work??

For God's sake people...take this "formula" off the forum for a second..imagine your sister..your wife..your friend...your self in this position??

Would you want to be thrown to these dogs...??

You people would rip her to shreds!!!

Such a lack of compassion from so many wise caring people...makes me very very sad.......

[THE eXchanger]

people should think, before they act

[Céline]

And Talk...


can you answer me exchanger? would a victim in real life be forced to come out of the pervebial closet? as you so demanded?

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by Céline

If you were at work...and your boss sexually harrassed you...would you be required to PUBLICALY tell everyone at work??

For God's sake people...take this "formula" off the forum for a second..imagine your sister..your wife..your friend...your self in this position??

Would you want to be thrown to these dogs...??

You people would rip her to shreds!!!

Such a lack of compassion from so many wise caring people...makes me very very sad.......

if it was truthful, that the occurence really did occur,
it wouldn't just be telling people at work,
it would be A PUBLIC RECORD

everyone would know,if they wished to research it

if it is NOT the real truth,
why on earth, should someone be able to accuse another of such
awful things, and, then, be allowed to just disappear,
and, to just fade into the background,
that does NOT sound like 'full disclosure' or 'truth' to me

it could be sad, that, people who act this way,
don't need to be thrown to the dogs, they are 'the dogs'

discovery of truth, and, the ownership of ones actions,
does have consequences,
it kind of puts a spin on the phrase
deal in truth, or, face the consequences !!!

THESE ARE PUBLIC POSTING BOARDS

love is the end result,
certainly, compassion is a part of truth

frankly, speaking, we would NOT feel a great deal of compassion
for someone who knowingly, passed about lies, about us,
as, that wastes, a great deal of time,
for, if they, simply dealt in the truth,
to begin with, NONE of THIS, would have transpired,
NOW WOULD IT !!!

the best lessons in life, are always the toughtest ones

the divine male/and, divine female - are both already inside of us

it isn't necessary, to go to others, to mine for your own answers

search within, you already have the answers,
and, you do NOT need anyone else, to give you 'the answers'

personally, we feel, it is best, for all of us,
to likely disattach, from all others,
and, find our selves !!!

For there, deep within, there will be, many answers !!!

You are all heading, into a place, that is way beyond this 3D world

your own higher self, essence, and, monad,
is there, to help you/and, to lead the way

the real answers, will come, when you are ready, your self/thru your selves
to hear them, there is NO other way !!!

[Céline]

Originally Posted by THE eXchanger

if it was truthful, that the occurence really did occur,
it wouldn't just be telling people at work,
it would be A PUBLIC RECORD

everyone would know,if they wished to research it

if it is NOT the real truth,
why on earth, should someone be able to accuse another of such
awful things, and, then, be allowed to just disappear,
and, to just fade into the background,
that does NOT sound like 'full disclosure' or 'truth' to me

it could be sad, that, people who act this way,
don't need to be thrown to the dogs, they are 'the dogs'

discovery of truth, and, the ownership of ones actions,
does have consequences,
it kind of puts a spin on the phrase
deal in truth, or, face the consequences !!!

THESE ARE PUBLIC POSTING BOARDS

love is the end result,
certainly, compassion is a part of truth

frankly, speaking, we would NOT feel a great deal of compassion
for someone who knowingly, passed about lies, about us,
as, that wastes, a great deal of time,
for, if they, simply dealt in the truth,
to begin with, NONE of THIS, would have transpired,
NOW WOULD IT !!!

the best lessons in life, are always the toughtest ones

the divine male/and, divine female - are both already inside of us

it isn't necessary, to go to others, to mine for your own answers

search within, you already have the answers,
and, you do NOT need anyone else, to give you 'the answers'

personally, we feel, it is best, for all of us,
to likely disattach, from all others,
and, find our selves !!!

For there, deep within, there will be, many answers !!!

You are all heading, into a place, that is way beyond this 3D world

your own higher self, essence, and, monad,
is there, to help you/and, to lead the way

the real answers, will come, when you are ready, your self/thru your selves
to hear them, there is NO other way !!!

NO IT WOULD NOT BE PUBLIC RECORD

Laws protect victims if they so choose to remain anonymous...

Are you saying that law is unfair ?

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by Céline

NO IT WOULD NOT BE PUBLIC RECORD

Laws protect victims if they so choose to remain anonymous...

Are you saying that law is unfair ?

it would be public record-on the sex offender - if it was truth

when it is NOT the full/or real truth

should it NOT be public record - on the accuser ???

aren't we here, to deal in "truth" ???

[Céline]

Originally Posted by THE eXchanger

it would be public record-on the sex offender

when it is NOT the full/or real truth

should it NOT be public record - on the accuser ???

aren't we here, to deal in "truth" ???

It would be public record after the trial and the victims name would NOT be devulged...

[Céline]

The Nature of Sexual Harassment

[Excerpted from Chapter 1 of the Ontario Women's Directorate's Employer's Guide: A Time for Action on Secual Harassment in the Workplace. (Toronto, ON: Ontario Women's Directorate, 1993) To order, see Publications]

A hostile or offensive workplace for women 'is created by repeated subtle, yet, unwelcome harassing behaviour. This is sometimes called the "poisoned'' work environment.

Sexual harassment is a pervasive workplace problem. It permeates both large and small workplaces in Ontario, and affects all employment sectors. In Canada, the first national survey showed that 49% of women in the workforce have experienced at least one type of unwanted sexual attention.(1)

The Ontario Human Rights Code states that "harassment means engaging in a course of vexatious comment or conduct that is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome."(2) Examples of sexual harassment include unwelcome leering or suggestive looks, sexual remarks, teasing or insults, subtle or crude sexual hints and pressures, and unwanted physical or sexual contact.

Sometimes sexual harassment is obvious. Overt harassment includes threats (a poor performance appraisal, or preventing a training opportunity) for failing to comply with the harasser's sexual solicitations or advances. It can take the form of suggestions of workrelated rewards (a good performance appraisal, or consideration of promotion) for complying with those demands. But it has been estimated that overt harassment makes up only 5% of workplace sexual harassment problems. Most often, the problem is more subtle. A hostile or offensive workplace for women is created by repeated subtle, yet, unwelcome harassing behaviour. This is sometimes called the "poisoned" work environment.(3)

Sexual harassment generally takes place in the worksite in the office, factory or on work property but can also take place in other locations, such as at meetings or conferences away from the regular workplace, while employees are travelling on workrelated business, or at office parties and informal gatherings. Employers are obligated to address harassment in any work-related environment.

An abuse of power

Sexual harassment is an abuse of power in working relationships. It was first defined as "unsolicited nonreciprocal male behavior that asserts a woman's sex role over her function as worker. It can be any or all of the following: staring at, commenting upon, or touching a woman's body; requests for acquiescence in sexual behavior; repeated nonreciprocated propositions for dates; demands for sexual intercourse; and rape; ... an act of aggression at any stage of its expression, and ... contributes to the ultimate goal of keeping women subordinate at work".(4) Research shows that the vast majority of workers who are sexually harassed are women, and that the vast majority of harassers are men.(5) The harasser can be an employee, employer, supervisor, coworker or customer. Sexual harassment is a form of sexual discrimination. Often, its presence signals a gender-based abuse of power in the workplace.

Studies have also shown that some women are particularly vulnerable to multiple forms of harassment. Aboriginal women, women of colour, and women in religious minorities may be subjected to combined racial, religious and sexual harassment in the workplace. Women with disabilities are also at risk for multiple workplace harassment. Women are also more subject to other forms of harassment related to their age, family and marital status. In work situations, genderbased abuse of power intertwines with other forms of power abuse. It is important to remember that employers are obligated to prevent all kinds of harassment in the workplace.

Sexual harassment is part of a continuum of violence against women. It is an attack on a person's self-esteem, integrity, personal security and economic well being. Whether violence takes place in the home, on the street, or in the workplace, the problem needs to be addressed seriously. Those who argue against solving these problems use the same arguments to deny that the problems exist, try to blame women for these problems and sometimes even suggest that accusations are false. Statements such as, "Look how she was dressed, she was asking for it," exemplify arguments which blame the victim. In fact, incidents of sexual harassment and sexual assault are generally underreported.

Like other forms of violence against women, sexual harassment in the workplace hurts, destroys and costs. But while the problem is pervasive and costly, it can be stopped. It is the employer's responsibility to free the workplace from this form of violence against women. It is in the employer's interest to ensure a healthy working environment for all employees.

Differing perceptions

Different people have different reactions when they first think about sexual harassment in the workplace. Those reactions can be influenced by whether you are a woman or a man, an employer or an employee, and many other factors. But different people do have different perceptions. That is why, when preventive actions are developed in an organization, these points should be kept in mind:

* employers often perceive their risks differently than do judges;
* human resource personnel may perceive lower risks than workers;
* men may perceive low or no risk even while women in the same workplace are being sexually harassed;
* men and women tend to underrate the additional risk faced by women and men who are aboriginal, of colour, or persons with disabilities.

Some people claim that it is impossible to tell the difference between sexual harassment and flattery, or sexual harassment and romance. But the differences are not really mysterious. Women (and men) who mutually welcome the interactions do not wish they would may stay away from work to avoid stop. Women (and men) who are harassed want it to stop.

Does this mean that sexual harassment is just a matter of opinion? No. While opinions about harassment are shaped by different life experiences, we can develop some common understandings. Sexual harassment is unwelcome sexual attention in the workplace. Employers are obligated to take action to prevent sexual harassment in their workplace. It is to the employer's advantage to learn more about what sexual harassment costs and to take necessary actions to avoid these costs.

Sexual harassment costs

Experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace is traumatic for victims. Their economic wellbeing is threatened and harmed. This has a serious impact not only on the employee, but also on her family. As well as causing economic hardship, sexual harassment creates severe workrelated stress. It becomes difficult for the employee to concentrate on her work or to complete work tasks efficiently. Often, she suffers increasing mental anguish, selfdoubt and depression as her selfesteem as a productive worker is attacked. The psychological and physical health toll is high. An employee who is harassed may stay away from work to avoid the stress, and chronic stress related illnesses frequently result from workplace sexual harassment. Many victims reluctantly quit their jobs when the employer' takes no effective action.

The immediate costs to employers, such as, decreased efficiency, loss of productivity, high absenteeism, and disruptions from frequent and longerterm sick leaves all harm the employer. The organization must spend unneccessary money for avoidable problems. Profits are weakened by higher costs for employee benefits, by high workforce turnover, by the loss of trained and effective workers, and by the resulting increase in human resource costs. Obtaining legal counsel for the resolution of formal complaints or human rights commission investigations can add even greater costs as can any legal orders brought against the employer for failure to take appropriate actions.

Doing nothing can be the most expensive option for everyone concerned. Employer actions that are too little, too late, harm the complainant, the alleged harasser, and the organization's bottom line. Preventing sexual harassment is not just the right thing to do. It is also the employer's legal responsibility and makes good business sense.

Notes

1 Canadian Human Rights Commission. Unwanted Sexual Attention and Sexual Harassment: Results of A Survey of Canadians. Ottawa: Minister of Supply and Services Canada, 1983 (page 5).

2 Ontario Human Rights Code, 1981, Section 9 (f).

3 Louise Fitzgerald's New York Times article, cited in "The Nature of the Beast" by Anita Hill. Ms., JanuaryFebruary 1992, Volume 11, Number 4 (page 33).

4 Lyn Farley, Sexual Shakedown: The Sexual Harassment of Women on the Job. New York: McGrawHill, 1978.

5 Canadian Human Rights Commission. Harassment Casebook: Summaries of Selected Harassment Cases. Ottawa: Minister of Supply and Services Canada, 1991. See also the Ontario and Canadian Human Rights Commissions'Annual Reports.A

[fr66ajc]

Not wishing to butt in here.. but I will.

If the accused is guilty... hang them out to dry.
If the accusers were stiching the accused up then hang them out to dry.

However if the accusers were truthfull then they should have the right to annonymity should they so wish.

That's my take anyway.

The difference in this scenario though is the 'court' is not open and public. There is no jury of '12 good men/women' so this, I think, is where some of the distrust and frustration is coming in. The public cannot view the proceedings because we are not mods.

So, given the nature of the case and the way forums are run, we have to wait and see what info we get from the 'closed' court and trust the fact that the mods are good people and will do what is right for those involved.

That's how I see things anyway.

93 93/93
Love is the Law, Love under Wiill

[Céline]

Originally Posted by fr66ajc

Not wishing to butt in here.. but I will.

If the accused is guilty... hang them out to dry.
If the accusers were stiching the accused up then hang them out to dry.

However if the accusers were truthfull then they should have the right to annonymity should they so wish.

That's my take anyway.

The difference in this scenario though is the 'court' is not open and public. There is no jury of '12 good men/women' so this, I think, is where some of the distrust and frustration is coming in. The public cannot view the proceedings because we are not mods.

So, given the nature of the case and the way forums are run, we have to wait and see what info we get from the 'closed' court and trust the fact that the mods are good people and will do what is right for those involved.

That's how I see things anyway.

93 93/93
Love is the Law, Love under Wiill

Theire right to anonymity does not reside on whether or not the accused is guilty..the right to anonymity is given so women dont FEAR coming forth...

And this thread...this battle is a PRIME example why women do NOT come out and do something about it...and why the laws are there to PROTECT these any women who wish to come forth...

i am dumbfounded why some cant see that

1 mistake + i mistake does NOT equate Growth...

[SteveX]

Originally Posted by Céline

Theire right to anonymity does not reside on whether or not the accused is guilty..the right to anonymity is given so women dont FEAR coming forth...

And this thread...this battle is a PRIME example why women do NOT come out and do something about it...and why the laws are there to PROTECT these any women who wish to come forth...

i am dumbfounded why some cant see that

1 mistake + i mistake does NOT equate Growth...

Quite right `ere `ere.

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by Céline

Theire right to anonymity does not reside on whether or not the accused is guilty..the right to anonymity is given so women dont FEAR coming forth...

And this thread...this battle is a PRIME example why women do NOT come out and do something about it...and why the laws are there to PROTECT these any women who wish to come forth...

i am dumbfounded why some cant see that

1 mistake + i mistake does NOT equate Growth...

And if some spiteful, vengeful woman puts some man who jilted her in jail on false charges, what has this bleeding heart approach to justice done then. This has happened lots of times.

Some laws are laughably stupid. anonymous accusation is one of them. Is that even a law in the jurisdiction where Avalon falls? I"ve noticed you quote Canadian references.

[Céline]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

And if some spiteful, vengeful woman puts some man who jilted her in jail on false charges, what has this bleeding heart approach to justice done then. This has happened lots of times.

Some laws are laughably stupid. anonymous accusation is one of them. Is that even a law in the jurisdiction where Avalon falls? I"ve noticed you quote Canadian references.

it was pure;ly to make a point to exchanger...who yes is canadian


If that is the thruth then it is an argument for the COURT ..not for us.

[fr66ajc]

Originally Posted by Céline

Theire right to anonymity does not reside on whether or not the accused is guilty..the right to anonymity is given so women dont FEAR coming forth...

That is a very good point, but I really wasn't suggesting we should know before hand, only after the results and only if the 'accusers' were truthful and wish to reveal themselves. Anonymity should be guaranteed unless the accuser is proven false. If the accuser is proven truthful and chooses not to remain anonymous then that is up to them.

Granted men are not sexually harassed nearly as much nor as vilely but I would stand by that for us too. If I accused a woman of sexual harassment just to get her into trouble and it was proved I lied in court, I wouldn't expect any protection from the press as I stepped out of court and into the wagon taking me to prison.

I hope I made myself clear there as I had no intention of defending the idea that the accusers should be exposed if the accusations were truthful.

93 93/93
Love is the Law, Love under Will