Hey Dope Heads, Give it a Break!

[AussieG]

The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?

[Machinamentum]

Drugs are illegal because society is more controllable that way. That's all.

Drugs are a very powerful tool for those who know how to operate drugs properly. Entheogenic drugs can instantly open the minds eye to realities that takes many many years of meditative practice to achieve.

They use bad drugs to make the good drugs look bad.

Originally Posted by AussieG

The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?

1- Because Big Pharma has been unable to synthesise the active ingredient THC despite repeated and costly efforts.

2- Big Pharma and the Alcohol Industry primarily. Big Pharma through it's attacks on medical marijuana gets to push more toxic drugs and the Alcohol Industry because in my experience people who are smoking marijuana drink a lot less. And the governments of course because of the huge taxes they impose on legal drugs.

3- TPB ultimately because there's a lot of money in it and people on drugs do not make an effective opposition to them. The "work hard play hard" ethic doesn't leave much room for waking up and smelling the coffee. Control is most definitely a prime concern- look at how opium was used by the British govt against China in the 1800s.

4- TPB ultimately, both through taxes on the legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco to the various governments and the illegal international drugs rings primarily operated by the CIA and MI6. All that money goes to the banking families one way or another. Everything does eventually.

Zeddo's point about Afghanistan is spot on- the Taliban would not allow people to grow the poppys, but since the UK and US military was sent in opium output has skyrocketed. CIA/MI6 again, and all paid for by us.

Machinamentum is also correct about certain drugs / plants being here to teach us. Psychedelics / teacher plants (when used properly) can open the mind and soul to new possibilities and can increase our awareness of the innate connection to the divine that we all possess. That could well be the main reason than psilocybin, fly agaric, marijuana, salvia divinorum etc have come under such sustained attack from TPB. The LAST thing they want is a humanity conscious of its own divinity and power.

[Rainchild]

Originally Posted by AussieG

The questions I ask is
Why is it illegal?
Who benefits?
Who is generating a society where escapism is promoted?
Where is the money going?

Believe it or not making marijauna illegal actually benefits the drug cartels because there is more demand for it in that situation. This is simple supply and demand. By decriminalizing marijuana it becomes part of the market and can be more easily suppressed because it's out in the open. This is why the war on drugs is failing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd_3H...e=channel_page

[alyscat]

late coming to this thread. Whether you buy weed or not, the killing will continue. I have friends who have moved out of Nuevo Larado, not because they're drug running, but because the crimelords are now having a great time with kidnapping. Her daughter was nearly dragged off the street by a kidnapper. It's not just drugs, it's greed.
alys

[Machinamentum]

Originally Posted by alyscat

It's not just drugs, it's greed.

BINGO

[Argante]

First of all... what an insulting, small minded, obviously baiting title for a thread.... especially from a moderator. I know we all have our opinions, but most try to avoid such insulting, immature posts.

Secondly, please feel free to write your elected Representatives and express your concern about this matter. I am sure the Brazil Government would be more than happy to listen to you seeing that they are the Country that your taxes go to.

There are many marijuana smokers that never buy or sell. They grow their own, thereby avoiding every slanted claim you have made in your op. Prohibition did not, and does not work. It's the making the substance illegal that brings in the criminal element.

By using your own logic... I will say that most of these murderers, kidnappers, and drug runners are males. Perhaps we should accuse all men of being drug lords and criminals. Perhaps we should have a law that makes it illegal for men to buy or own weapons, drive a vehicle, or be within fifty miles of the border. I am sure that would clear up the problem.

This OP is so obviously filled with anger and bias... I'm not even going to waste my time on it anymore. [/QUOTE]

[Iceman]

[Humble Janitor]

Actually Steve_A, the problem is NOT the drug cartels or violence but rather the mere fact that drugs are illegal in the first place.

Legalize drugs and the black market will dry up.

[cantaloupe]

The most serious problems are being caused by the meth labs that have moved south of the border due to the fact that raw materials are more tightly controlled here. We have outsourced one more industry and it's biting us on the ass. Though I agree that we can affect change by altering our habits it's not often easy with meth. Pot is only a small part of that problem because it is so abundantly produced right here at home.

[Dantheman62]

HaHa Steve A you got bashed hard dude! LOL, but he deleted it.

[Machinamentum]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

HaHa Steve A you got bashed hard dude! LOL, but he deleted it.

I can't believe he did that!

That was a proper bashing.

[Dantheman62]

HaHa yeah Machinamentum,he should've left it, Steve's a big boy he can handle it.

[recallone]

Arm-chair quarterbacking and knee-jerk solutions that don't take into consideration all the facts really chap my ass.

'The War on Drugs' was manufactured as a means of making money. American C130s were flying cocaine into the U.S. out of Panama for a very long time. They provide a means of getting the drugs into the country so that they can have jobs to address the problem. This is 100% true, by the way.

The cure for cancer and aids ? They already exist. But there's no money in cures...only in research. Or 'wars'.

If it grows out of the ground, back the f#ck off and let a human commune with his planet in his or her own way. What's happening in Mexico is manufactured, same as so many other things. See through the headlines and rhetoric.

[Steve_A]

Hi Argante,

I took the liberty to replace your message in its' entirety. They say that first thoughts are the most honest and candid. I appreciate that. As dantheman62 said I am a big boy now and can handle my own.

In reply and with all due respect, I didn't think that the post was insulting nor immature. It was offering and leaving open for discussion a possible solution to the serious problem that is taking place on the US / Mexican border towns.

I was sent on a drugs awareness course when I worked as a projects manager for NACRO (National Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders) in the UK back in the 1980s and have seen so many excuses to justify use of skank, from "It doesn't give you a beer belly" to "It helps me reach my spirituality" more recently.

As we can see from almost all the posts in this thread, no-one is ready to give up their toke for a week or so in support of an idea, whether the idea is good or not, or will produce positive results or not.

For example, last Saturday was energy awareness day and the whole world was to turn off their electricity energy for one hour. Will this act change the face of the Earth? Probably not. Since then I haven't seen any great change. Have you? However millions of energy users did without to send a message.

When Live Aid was strong, people did without something to be able to donate money to the cause. Did that act change their lives? I imagine not much. However the important thing is they took part to make a statement.

There are millions of blood and organ donors that give up their body. Does that change their lives. No. But also they are saying something important.

If a consumer does not agree with the politics of a company they stop buying that companys' product and will buy from another company, even if it isn't the same product. They are taking a stand and are beginning to change the way commerce sees the world.

The list is endless.

However this thread, far from being childish is searching for the willingness to find solutions to problems.

It is not for me to comment too much about the replies to this thread, other readers will draw up their own conclusion.

My job has been done in opening the subject for discussion.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Argante

First of all... what an insulting, small minded, obviously baiting title for a thread.... especially from a moderator. I know we all have our opinions, but most try to avoid such insulting, immature posts.

Secondly, please feel free to write your elected Representatives and express your concern about this matter. I am sure the Brazil Government would be more than happy to listen to you seeing that they are the Country that your taxes go to.

[Argante]

You had no right to replace a message that a user deleted or removed. Then to add insult to injury... you wrote your words into my post so that others think I wrote something I did not! You had no right to alter my post with your own words.... so not only did you reinstate it against my wishes, you rewrote it too!! WTF!!

This is why Avalon is ridiculed by other forums... the inexperience, partiality, and immaturity of it's moderators who throw their weight around for their own satisfaction instead of for the good of the forum.

That you are moderating a thread in which you are posting is unheard of on such a large site, and goes against the first BASIC rule of moderating...

DO NOT MODERATE YOUR OWN THREAD

I removed my post because I found it to be too angry. I knew if I took the time to cool down and rewrite it, I would present my reply far more clearly. It was my choice... not yours. It is only your EGO that makes you think I removed my post for you... I know we have never really gotten along, but for you to use your moderator advantage to push your own point of view is, in my opinion, proof that you need more instruction on how to moderate.

Does anybody on this forum even follow Project Camelot anymore? The interviews are barely discussed. The Major Announcements are not even commented on. The Witness area is a joke. Instead it has become a forum for "news of the weird" or money making "gloom and doomers".

WAKE UP AVALON!!

DON'T LET THESE YAHOO'S MODERATE THEIR OPINIONS DOWN YOUR THROAT.

It is so sad what Avalon has become. Does anybody even remember what Avalon was supposed to be?

Originally Posted by Steve_A

Hi Argante,

I took the liberty to replace your message in its' entirety. They say that first thoughts are the most honest and candid. I appreciate that. As dantheman62 said I am a big boy now and can handle my own.
<snip>
Steve

[Steve_A]

Hi Argante,

I'm really sorry that you are upset because of your experience in this thread, it certainly wasn't my intent, nor the intent of Project Avalon.

However, I feel it important to advise you that legally, once a message is posted in the forum, it becomes part of the forum, deleted or not (every forum uses the same policy Avalon, ATS, Open Minds etc.).

Check out the FAQ page about editing messages. "Administrators and moderators may also edit your messages".

I only reinstated your message, nothing more. There is nothing more I can add as the code doesn't allow me.

In my reply I cut most of what you put to keep the text to a minimum.

Others on the forum had already seen your comments so the comments were no secret. If you're going to call a spade a spade, call it.

As for moderating my own thread, I am allowed to do so. What I can't do is remove text of others to reinforce my point or to sway the opinion of others.

If you are not satisfied with the service by me, or others of this forum, enter in contact with site admin. They are here for this sort of thing.

The forum is used not only and exclusively o discuss Project Camelot inerviews. Once again you are invited to read the FAQ page of the forum.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Argante

You had no right to replace a message that a user deleted or removed. Then to add insult to injury... you wrote your words into my post so that others think I wrote something I did not! You had no right to alter my post with your own words.... so not only did you reinstate it against my wishes, you rewrote it too!! WTF!!

[Argante]

On my message, at the bottom you wrote...

"that's exacting what i was thinking......you guys do realize that Mexico is one the biggest suppler of coke, heron, Meth,,,,,I don't know in you guys ever smoked mexican weed before but it is not very good so l don't really see much of a market for it...but what do i know"

I did not write it... and you say you didn't... so who did?

[Argante]

I am very aware of the TOS Steve... that you are moderating your own thread to suit your whims, that you are posting words in my post that I did not write. is just wrong.

I know that you are wrong, you know it too... why should I go running to the Collin about this when IT IS YOUR JOB TO MAKE IT RIGHT! You already know where you screwed up, you already know what needs to be done to fix it... it's just that you never could admit that you screwed up. Instead you manipulate the members posts and hide behind the TOS to cover up your mistake.

I watched you do this to members who disagreed with you when I was a moderator here. It is one of the main reasons why we never got along. I am sure you find your type of moderating as creative... I find it manipulative, immature, and dishonest. Unfortunately... you also represent Avalon.

[Steve_A]

Hi Argante,

Once again your message was already in public domain. Have I not the right to see it as it was commented on and directed to me and relevant to the discussion?

You will notice that the end of your message has the [/quote] sign. The other text is not mine. With all due respect, my English is a lot better than that. I will remove it right away. I will also look for the source.
If the terms of service allow me to edit posts I am NOT doing anything wrong.
I'm sorry if you feel so.

I have never made any editions of people who do not agree with me. Ever. I have merely openly discussed our differences. It's for the onlooker to arrive at their own conclusions. I don't need to edit posts to justify my argument.

What is the point of a forum for discussions if there is no discussion?

Unfortunately if people don't agree with my opinions they tend to take cheap shots as their side of the argument. What can you do?

I respresent proudly the Avalon forum. You're right.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Argante

I am very aware of the TOS Steve... that you are moderating your own thread to suit your whims, that you are posting words in my post that I did not write. is just wrong.

I know that you are wrong, you know it too... why should I go running to the Collin about this when IT IS YOUR JOB TO MAKE IT RIGHT! You already know where you screwed up, you already know what needs to be done to fix it... it's just that you never could admit that you screwed up. Instead you manipulate the members posts and hide behind the TOS to cover up your mistake.

I watched you do this to members who disagreed with you when I was a moderator here. It is one of the main reasons why we never got along. I am sure you find your type of moderating as creative... I find it manipulative, immature, and dishonest. Unfortunately... you also represent Avalon.

[recallone]

This is just plain embarrassing that anyone should have to explain this to you, but here goes..

"...has been agreed on both sides of the border, by politicians, police and public alike"
You're a moderator on a website that regularly uncovers the lies of politicians, police and the media and you're standing on a soapbox about their merits?! Are you for real?

I know that everybody watching this thread is shaking their head at your back-pedaling and complete oblivion to the obvious factors involved in this topic, so let me explain it real slow for you - politicians are compensated financially to pass laws that give big business leverage in making more money with almost complete disregard for the rights and safety of the population.

Your point about the electric car went straight above my head. To me it made absolutely no sense to the topic in this thread. will you explain it in another way?

The reason why I mentioned the electric car and the oil industry was to illustrate for you how big business and government are in cahoots with one another. You're repeating what you must have picked up on Fox news or something about how marijuana is the root of the problem that Mexico is facing, and therefore we must divide ourselves further by alienating these deviants that are okay with people dying for their little recreational toke, as you so aptly put it. Does that sound about right to you? Or has it occurred to you that the war on drugs is just another excuse to ramp up the military industrial complex? Hmmmmmmmmmm?

Have I suggested that home growers are responsible for the Mexico problem? I don't think so.

No, you just issued a blanket statement to include ALL who use.

Is the wasteful killing worth it for a toke? Are the users so egoist to let people die for their little high?

I don't have the time to provide you with a list of links to show you how the 'Drug War' is financed by the same people that fight it, but maybe someone else with more patience will enlighten you. I don't have any left at this point.

Once again, I'm really suprised that pot smokers defend themselves to the bitter end, even those who have nothing to do with the subject matter in hand. Must be the paranoia that cannabis gives one after prolonged use.

Don't you think your little back-handed accusations and insults are transparent? They are to me, and I'm embarrassed to see you employing the same kind of tactic the PTB uses in swaying people's opinions - not with fact, but with innuendo. Whether or not I, or anyone else discussing this topic smokes marijuana is besides the point. If you don't think people have a right to smoke what they can grow from the ground, that's your opinion. But trying to lay the responsibility of all that suffering at the feet of pot smokers is about as laughable as jet fuel bringing down the twin towers.

I'm done.
Peace

[Steve_A]

Hi recallone,

Far from being embarrassing for you to try and explain things to me, your reasoning for your colocations are based on paranoia and double standards.

Just as you accuse me of labelling ALL users for the problem in Mexico, you use the same argument suggesting that ALL politicians, ALL police and ALL media are bare faced liars.

How do you know that everybody is shaking their head? Are you trying also to sway their opinion? Have you read all the posts?

I know perfectly well what lobbyists and politicians do behind the scenes, but we're talking about an 'illegal' activity open for anybody to take up. It would be the simplest thing in the world for politicians to make new laws and 'license' companies to grow the magic herb for a backhander. Unfortunately, pressure from the church and companies with conflicting interests at the moment won't let this happen. You really are stating the obvious at this point.

The case of the electric car was a purely commercial one, nothing to do with government, so much so that electric cars are popping up all over the world. Someone invents something interesting, a company buys that invention and if it isn't convenient to produce that invention at that time, they keep it on the shelf.
I'm from the music industry and I know only too well how this happens. But I won't wander off the point too much. However, you really will need to learn how commercial industry works before you come up with accurate reasoning.

Also I know who finance the drug wars, but that wasn't the theme of my first post. I'm not exactly sure from which hat you pulled that rabbit. You really do need to read the post again and understand its' point.

I base my reasoning on fact. If I don't have the facts I do research, from both sides of the argument. It really is good therapy. You should try it some time.

Inuendos? You really will have to point them out to me.

I see that Ron Paul is against recreational users of drugs. Send him an e-mail won't you. I never said that I was against them or for them. I always say this; They are free to do and decide what they want.

I'm sorry if my reply appears terse, but there you go.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by recallone

This is just plain embarrassing that anyone should have to explain this to you, but here goes..

"...has been agreed on both sides of the border, by politicians, police and public alike"
You're a moderator on a website that regularly uncovers the lies of politicians, police and the media and you're standing on a soapbox about their merits?! Are you for real?

I know that everybody watching this thread is shaking their head at your back-pedaling and complete oblivion to the obvious factors involved in this topic, so let me explain it real slow for you - politicians are compensated financially to pass laws that give big business leverage in making more money with almost complete disregard for the rights and safety of the population.


The reason why I mentioned the electric car and the oil industry was to illustrate for you how big business and government are in cahoots with one another. You're repeating what you must have picked up on Fox news or something about how marijuana is the root of the problem that Mexico is facing, and therefore we must divide ourselves further by alienating these deviants that are okay with people dying for their little recreational toke, as you so aptly put it. Does that sound about right to you? Or has it occurred to you that the war on drugs is just another excuse to ramp up the military industrial complex? Hmmmmmmmmmm?


No, you just issued a blanket statement to include ALL who use.


I don't have the time to provide you with a list of links to show you how the 'Drug War' is financed by the same people that fight it, but maybe someone else with more patience will enlighten you. I don't have any left at this point.



Don't you think your little back-handed accusations and insults are transparent? They are to me, and I'm embarrassed to see you employing the same kind of tactic the PTB uses in swaying people's opinions - not with fact, but with innuendo. Whether or not I, or anyone else discussing this topic smokes marijuana is besides the point. If you don't think people have a right to smoke what they can grow from the ground, that's your opinion. But trying to lay the responsibility of all that suffering at the feet of pot smokers is about as laughable as jet fuel bringing down the twin towers.

I'm done.
Peace

[Phtha]

I normally stay far away from personal issues on forums but I feel the need to pipe in here.
I find what Steve_A said to be insulting and incredibly ignorant about both drugs and the drug war in general. I think you should really look into the reason why cannabis is illegal. If you seriously think that a plant was made illegal because they were concerned about our own safety and health, then well, I don't know where to start. How about try reading labels in the grocery store next time your shopping, and comparing the chemicals with those found in cannabis...

I can post link after link proving cannabis has never caused a disease and cures many forms of other diseases...

The only reason you think it is harmful is because you were told it was by bureaucrats who want to harm you....

I am also posting because I want everyone to know that not all of us here reflect the views of the moderators or other members. Steve I'm sure is a great guy and means well, and has proven so by being helpful many times.
We are all at different stages in this grand show.

[Steve_A]

Hi Phtha,

Leaving the insulting and ignorant to one side, my original post was nothing to do with looking in to why Cannabis is illegal.

Nor did it treat the subject of chemicals in foodstuffs that resemble those natural properties of Cannabis.

Nor did I state any opinion about health and safety of users, I don't know where you got that from.

Nor if the drug causes illness, I think however, I mentioned that it does cause paranoia if used over a prolonged period of time.

http://mentalhealth.about.com/od/che...thcyale604.htm

I personally was told this on a training course back in the 1980s I took about drug awareness. Of course the course tutor could have been lying.

We must read the original post to understand what I was saying. It appears that many people in this thread are defending the use of the drug. Rights for using drugs was also not the point of the thread. I don't particularly care if you are or if you are not a user.

Thank goodness some people in the thread did understand what I was saying.

It's clear that not everybody has the same opinion or thoughts that I do. Being a moderator doesn't make me the owner of the truth, just as it doesn't limit me as to what I can say when I dissagree in the forums.

I merely edit posts when rules are broken in the forum (racist, sexist, threatening remarks etc.).

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Phtha

I normally stay far away from personal issues on forums but I feel the need to pipe in here.
I find what Steve_A said to be insulting and incredibly ignorant about both drugs and the drug war in general. I think you should really look into the reason why cannabis is illegal. If you seriously think that a plant was made illegal because they were concerned about our own safety and health, then well, I don't know where to start. How about try reading labels in the grocery store next time your shopping, and comparing the chemicals with those found in cannabis...

I can post link after link proving cannabis has never caused a disease and cures many forms of other diseases...

The only reason you think it is harmful is because you were told it was by bureaucrats who want to harm you....

I am also posting because I want everyone to know that not all of us here reflect the views of the moderators or other members. Steve I'm sure is a great guy and means well, and has proven so by being helpful many times.
We are all at different stages in this grand show.

[oldpaganfreak]

man, all i can say is that a LOT of people need to smoke a dube and chill out.
steve, chances are that the dude that taught you about pot, in the 80's, was lying.
my experience with 'drug awareness programs' is that they are not aware at all.
this is always a hot ticket issue, as pot smokers want to defend their use, and anti pot smokers want to condemn it. this is nothing new.
so, i'm sparking a dube and cracking a beer, as it's that time of the day.
chill out folks.......'ere' ....have a toke!!