The Open Secret - For No-One

[dayzero]

I disagree with you most wholeheartedly!

Please to investigate further, especially Krishnamurti - Christ would approve.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by dayzero

I disagree with you most wholeheartedly!

Please to investigate further, especially Krishnamurti - Christ would approve.

Krishnamurti was not enlightened. Jesus was.

[Czymra]

Ah. This shall be another most excellent stand-off. My binoculars are picked.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

Krishnamurti was not enlightened. Jesus was.

If you expect to be taken seriously, I suggest a little more elaboration and debate rather than sweeping "doctrinal" statements - especially when bagging the likes of J Krishnamurti.

Mind you if you cannot understand or agree with what the original post was all about, then you probably wont understand this post either.

A..

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Anchor

If you expect to be taken seriously, I suggest a little more elaboration and debate rather than sweeping "doctrinal" statements - especially when bagging the likes of J Krishnamurti.

Mind you if you cannot understand or agree with what the original post was all about, then you probably wont understand this post either.

A..

Where is the doctrine?

You are defending Krishnamurti. Do you understand him? If so please elaborate.

[Wormhole]

Just a thought:
Realization is the dispelling of the illusion that we are disconnected, the lifting of our own fog; so to speak. The grip of our dissatisfaction comes from within and it is the lifting of our own self imposed illusion that sets us free. We are already realized beings, imbedded with light and the gift of all that is. The veil that keeps us from seeing is our own. We are already there to begin with. Unlearn.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

[dayzero]

Well said Anchor.

I'm loving the Tony Parsons audio files, absolutely fantastic [yeah it does sound like someone else, perhaps there'll be an enlightened version of Julie Burchill soon, although I fear not.]

Dagon you really must read the handbooks, go and download the first one and start reading! oh, go on!
You will find great writing on exactly what you are expressing......beautiful fragmented holographic parts of the whole.

I leave you with a quote from the beautiful Jiddu;

"there is the difficulty that one's brain functions in old habits, like a gramophone record playing the same tune over and over again.

While the noise of that tune, of that habit is going on, one is not capable of listening to anything new......."

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Wormhole

Just a thought:
Realization is the dispelling of the illusion that we are disconnected, the lifting of our own fog; so to speak. The grip of our dissatisfaction comes from within and it is the lifting of our own self imposed illusion that sets us free.

Agreed. But what is this fog? This inner dissatisfaction? This veil? Does it have substance? If so, it cannot be simply denied. It has to be acknowledged and identified. As a substantial part of our own being it must be dealt with in some way.

The 'fog' is not merely a miss-entrainment of the mind which fails to be present in the moment. It is not merely a mind untrained in the meditative art of focussing on the present.

The 'veil' is an 'energy-veil' also known as 'e-vil'. It is the 'fog' of negative energy - the lower vibrational energies of fear, hatred, resentment, a sense of injustice, self pity, vanity, jealousy, etc, most of which is subconscious - which distorts the personal energy field and blocks the soul's conscious realisation of the higher- Self. By acknowledging personal 'evil', rather than denying it's influence, i am acknowledging the concept of the 'quality' and 'value' of self created energy patterns. In order to transform consciousness our personal mental and emotional patterns need to be discerned and identified from the POV of spirit. In that way they can be excised, transformed and re-integrated in spirit.

In the process, the soul's job is to allow the spirit to perform it's perfect work of transforming the outer patterns which block deeper levels of realisation. Spirit will not transmute into light that which we fail to identify as darkness. The chakras and finer bodies are the 'vessels' of spirit and these must be 'cleansed' in order to better 'house' a greater portion of the higher- Self in all planes. The more harmoniously resonant the soul is (in matter) with the spiritual- Self (in spirit) the more it will magnetise spirit into matter. I've identified 'negative' energy or 'evil' in this equation because it's substance can be transmuted by spirit which flows in meditation over the arc of spiritual attunement. If we accomodate on any pretext the dark, negative aspects of the psyche we will not succeed in the realisation of perfect Oneness.

Personal energy is that quantity which flows through each lifestream and which we each impress with the patterns of our own mind and emotions. If that energy is qualified lovingly through a clear lens (a clear personal energy field) then it blesses all and rises back to it's spiritual origin as intended. If that energy is misqualified through a distorted personal lens then it remains in the material planes as personal karmic responsibility. So in some way we must deal with these negative energies that are acted upon by the gravitational pull of the lower planes and which keep us earth bound until they're balanced. These energies have substance and mass and all substance must be brought back into vibrational alignment with the spiritual source from whence it originates. The karmic state of an individual varies from person to person. One has a heavy karmic load while another is less burdened. Our personal sojourn in materiality determined this. What have we each made of our allotment of energy and consciousness? How distorted has the lens of personal consciousness (the chakras and subtle bodies) become as a result of misqualifying God's energy?

So it is more than brainwaves we seek to transcend. A fall in consciousness has happened to virtually everyone who incarnates on earth and it has snowballed into a downward spiral for aeons to the point where now only a trickle of spiritual energy flows through each individual lifestream, more or less according to the degree of individual self discipline and self awareness. This state of poverty consciousness is indeed an illusion and it can be proven so. But to do so we must acknowledge the illusion as the energetic effect of abusing the flow of God's energy through us. Ignorance is a created effect which can be uncreated by the perception of it's cause.

To 'lift' this self imposed illusion (as you put it) we must allow the spirit to 'lift' the vibrationally fallen aspects of the psyche. That means surrendering the aspects of lower consciousness we've identified. To do that we must re-establish conscious awareness of the inner-Self and surrender to IT. Meditation is an important way to let go of the attachment to the mental and emotional distortions which are constantly thrown up by the subconscious regions of the personal energy field. In the stillness the arc is re-established between the soul and it's spiritual source and spiritual light energy can flow into the dark distortions of consciousness and transform them.

Originally Posted by Wormhole

We are already realized beings, imbedded with light and the gift of all that is. The veil that keeps us from seeing is our own. We are already there to begin with. Unlearn.

Human beings are multidimensional and are embedded with the spiritual 'circuitry' to realise spiritual-Selfhood but most have not. Yes a part of Self is already there and yes the 'energy veil' is self created. But we must not confuse the goal with the path of Self- realisation. We must prove it with every step.

[Czymra]

The 'veil' is an 'energy-veil' also known as 'e-vil'. It is the 'fog' of negative energy - the lower vibrational energies of fear, hatred, resentment, a sense of injustice, self pity, vanity, jealousy, etc, most of which is subconscious - which distorts the personal energy field and blocks the soul's conscious realisation of the higher- Self. By acknowledging personal 'evil', rather than denying it's influence, i am acknowledging the concept of the 'quality' and 'value' of self created energy patterns. In order to transform consciousness our personal mental and emotional patterns need to be discerned and identified from the POV of spirit. In that way they can be excised, transformed and re-integrated in spirit.

Wait a second. Rather, let me ask this (and I promise it's the last time guys):
You say that a 'clean lens' is a lens of 'positivity' while a 'distorted lens' is 'negativity'. Am I getting this right?
If so, where has the balance gone? Is it just transmuting the negative in us into positive and here we go?
It still just doesn't seem right to assume that the divine is only accessed through the positive spectrum. (Not that I like accessing it through the negative... then again how would I know.)

[Wormhole]

Perhaps the entire idea of "positive and negative" is a veil unto itself?
Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

[dayzero]

Well posted Josefine!

Perhaps some of you should do as she's done and actually listen to the audio, as that's what i intented the post to be about - i find he's a very good speaker and have been listening quite a bit on my mp3. truly hilarious [so often the case when one encounters 'truth']

[recallone]

I’m probably going to ruffle some feathers here, but truth needs to be encouraged – not suppressed.

From milk and honey: The spiritual Self is really saying "This is WHO I AM. Attune to My Vibration and Guidance and I Will draw thee (up in vibration) unto Me". This means that the soul must seek to be guided by higher Will and be prepared to take direction from spirit. The Christ Presence will lead each soul uniquely according to personal karma which is different for everyone.

So, let me get this straight - the answers are outside of you, then? Salvation is through another, outside of yourself? I'm sorry, but I don't concur.

And by the way, you missed the point altogether when you quoted Josefine - 'Time is an illusion, and without time there is no distance and no separation.'
You nailed it right on the head, Josefine. The people who aren't understanding that little gem, however - are the same ones that are attached to religion by way of ego. Fear of being wrong.

From Milk and Honey - "They are illusions because they can be changed by the transforming power of the inner- Christ. If they are not changed the soul will continue to labour under the illusion. The changing of the garments of consciousness -- exchanging the tatty old illusions of hate, fear etc for the wedding garment of light -- is a the 'great work of the ages'. It is 'the path'. We actually need cycles of time to accomplish this 'great work'."

So much of what you're offering is from a place of polarity - polarity that exists as a matter of necessity to enslave you (me, us). You see, there is no time in which this needs to happen because there is no time. Our concept of time is flawed. What Josefine was trying to communicate is what any quantum physicist will confirm - the true nature of time. We view it as a linear arrangement. The past happened before the present, immediately before the future. Not so. When we fully understand that it's ALL happening simultaneously, the whole notion of there being a process that takes time goes flying out the window ... at a high rate of speed! Discard old ideas. Completely!

I've seen so many conversations on here (Avalon)that attempt to figure things out using the egoic mind and they almost always digress into moral judgments of right and wrong, 'balanced' and 'unbalanced' labels, 'low vibration', negative aspects', such and such says...etc. Just about all of it was information acquired, instead of intuited from within. Most are oblivious to the fact that the very foundation of the arguments they employ have served to strengthen the chains that hold them to this dimension.

I refuse to kneel before my superior...for I have none! The idea that a benevolent God in the clouds will guide me implies that I am separate from him and that I require such assistance. Not so. The obstacle that prevents me from realizing that I am that god is the very idea that I am not. As greater truths are uncovered, we must be ego-less enough to discard the concepts that no longer apply.
Example: Are we all connected? (I hope the answer is a resounding YES!)
If so, exactly what is it outside of us that we're hoping to draw wisdom from?

I apologize if any of my delivery was abrasive, but as we realize greater truths that have absolutely nothing to do with old-school religion, the very notion of trying to validate the old information with the new is just silly to me and I get a little impatient sometimes. This is about realizing individually that we are all we need. The glory is inside. The freedom is inside. The everything . . . is inside. I applaud those of you intent on rediscovering that truth.

As always, I wish all of you peace.
recallone

[RedeZra]

Parson is advocating his version of Advaita Vedanta which is an ancient Indian philosophy on nondualism
He often quotes Nisargadatta Maharaj

"There cannot be no person that is Self-realized"

Fine he tells truth as he sees it and if it resonates with you fine
But why go around bashing other peoples believes
Why so sure my truth is better than your truth

Both religion and spirituallity have thousands of branches
Why try to saw down the ones youre not sitting on

Be as you are
If you feel to sit and wait for truth fine
If you feel to investigate truth fine
If you dont bother about truth fine too

[recallone]

Mind Hasn't a Clue is spot on. I'm anxious to listen to more.
Thanks for this, dayzero.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

Parson is advocating his version of Advaita Vedanta which is an ancient Indian philosophy on nondualism
He often quotes Nisargadatta Maharaj

Fine he tells truth as he sees it and if it resonates with you fine
But why go around bashing other peoples believes
Why so sure my truth is better than your truth

Both religion and spirituallity have thousands of branches
Why try to saw down the ones youre not sitting on

Be as you are
If you feel to sit and wait for truth fine
If you feel to investigate truth fine
If you dont bother about truth fine too

Not sure if this is purely a defense of free conscience (i think so) or is directed specifically my way RedeZra but if so i'm not trying to bash anyone's beliefs. If a discussion brings dissagreements i see nothing wrong with that. I'm not referring to you here but if people don't like their views being discussed then a forum is the wrong place to present them.

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by milk and honey

Not sure if this is purely a defense of free conscience (i think so) or is directed specifically my way RedeZra but if so i'm not trying to bash anyone's beliefs....

Yes you think right lol

As the saying all roads lead to Rome all paths lead to God
Some longer more bumpy with more sidetracks
A path right for me might not be right for you
And down the road maybe we meet and walk together
And then another crossroad

So it goes this homeward journey
The pilgrim and the path till they meet and blend with the Shrine

Who can say what happened there who can see beyond the horizon
So we walk on and on and maybe next step will take us there
And quench our thirst for truth and confer peace of mind

Maybe there are all the answers to our questions
behind this hill inside this cave in our heart

In a vision i saw the Buddha stooping down to pick a flower

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

Yes you think right lol

As the saying all roads lead to Rome all paths lead to God
Some longer more bumpy with more sidetracks
A path right for me might not be right for you
And down the road maybe we meet and walk together
And then another crossroad

So it goes this homeward journey
The pilgrim and the path till they meet and blend with the Shrine

Who can say what happened there who can see beyond the horizon
So we walk on and on and maybe next step will take us there
And quench our thirst for truth and confer peace of mind

Maybe there are all the answers to our questions
behind this hill inside this cave in our heart

In a vision i saw the Buddha stooping down to pick a flower

Ah you've done it again RedeZra. Beautiful.

[recallone]

Dude...exactly how many books have you read that your ego can't possibly bear to take the passengers' seat? I can't even get all the way through your replies. There's so much malice and justification in your words. I see you patting yourself on the back with every reply. This isn't about being right. It's about finding the truth. Even if that truth involves dismissing what your ego has spent a lifetime accumulating.

"Mind Hasn't a Clue" is one of the audio tracks, by the way. You just read the phrase and decided to start attacking it. Have you listened to a single one of those tracks?

The new understandings that people in here are trying to discuss doesn't come from agenda-laden religions. It comes from within. And you're going to have a really hard time getting there so long as your ego is holding the reins. It sounds like you're extremely well read, m&h - but that's not where you're going to find it.

Peace

[Czymra]

My hat off to you milk and honey and happy 200th postday.
I shall not judge whether you do service or disservice for service it is and I applaud your standing tall against so many.

I knew this was going to get good.
Can I some day pick a thread and invite my favourites to discuss it out? Just kidding.

(Just to make sure, not trying to make fun of you.)

[milk and honey]

Course you can Czymra. Thanks for the birthday wishes and all round goodwill.

[dayzero]

"There's so much malice and justification in your words. I see you patting yourself on the back with every reply. "

Well spotted.

[dayzero]

"I shall not judge whether you do service or disservice for service it is and I applaud your standing tall against so many."

Hmm.

Thank you for the link Dayzero. It led me to Conscious.tv which has some marvelous video interviews. There are three sections....healing, consciousness and psychology which each have several videos!

Just a thought.... who is to say who is enlightened and who is not? Not I....a mere mortal.

[dayzero]

> Krishnamurti was not enlightened. Jesus was.

I refer you to my previous post!

[dayzero]

p.s. - it's not a competition! lol