Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 07:52 AM

Please take a look at how the 'stimulus' money is to be spent.

How does this stimulate the economy? How does this help people who have lost jobs? How does this help people buy groceries, pay their utilities, buy gas, pay rent or mortgages?

In order to "change" government we need to be involved at the local level first. Please join with others in your area to bring about "change".

Here's one example on the bill and I am assuming it is still there:

$800 million for constructing Federal Prison System buildings and facilities! *New Housing Development, Yippee!

Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today
Veronique de Rugy | February 13, 2009

"The final stimulus package is the final insult to taxpayers."

Veronique de Rugy is a columnist at Reason magazine and an economist at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University.

Full article and partial list here: http://www.reason.com/news/show/131694.html

Excerpt:

Quote:

It's a terrible bill, in other words, both on its face and in the details. For the reasons I detailed here, it won't stimulate the economy. It violates many of President Obama's promises. Most of the deals that created it were made behind closed doors, meaning that there is virtually zero transparency and no real way to track where, how, or why money is being spent. On top of that, the bill is still packed with items that any vaguely impartial observer would call pork.

*personal note

Carmen · 02-17-2009, 08:09 AM

That is so sad. I guess Obama oppointees were indicators of same ol---same ol stuff. Nothing new is spite of the great speeches

Humble Janitor · 02-17-2009, 11:37 AM

All I see is more "blah blah blah" from the obstructionist Republicans in Congress.

Either you do SOMETHING or you do NOTHING.

Suppose the Stimulus DIDN'T pass? Now what? More ******* tax cuts? We're past 8 years of tax cuts. Where are the jobs that were suppose to be created as a result of these tax cuts?

I'm getting sick and tired of some of the topics here. The stimulus is NOT an insult to taxpayers. The partisan attitudes of Republicans and their supporters is THE insult to Americans everywhere.

There will never be anything but partisan bickering and it should be made clear that Project Avalon and Project Camelot are NOT the places for such one-sided topics.

Since when did these sites become a hangout for Ron Paul/Free State Project cronies?

*edit- You'll have to excuse me. I'm just getting incredibly annoyed at the constant topics that criticize something but offer NOTHING as an alternative or they stick to the same old "solutions" that we've seen from the PTB over the years. *

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

Either you do SOMETHING or you do NOTHING.
Since when did these sites become a hangout for Ron Paul/Free State Project cronies?
*edit- You'll have to excuse me. I'm just getting incredibly annoyed at the constant topics that criticize something but offer NOTHING as an alternative or they stick to the same old "solutions" that we've seen from the PTB over the years. *

Blessings Humble Janitor,

What are you doing to "change" the world, SOMETHING or NOTHING?

You are obviously not familiar with Ron Paul's exasperated efforts to change this country for over 30 years. Finally, he is receiving some press and his message and SOLUTIONS are agreed on by millions of people not only in the United States, but across the globe.

He has offered plenty of alternatives to the present situation and many Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and Economists agree with him.

Peter Schiff just recommended that Obama forget what his advisors are saying and just ask Ron Paul.

I'm afraid you have been left in the dark if you have not investigated Ron Paul. He is a man of the people not of the corporations.

This is not about partisanship, this is about helping you and me, the people.

Get involved at your state level if you truly desire "change".

Humble Janitor · 02-17-2009, 12:21 PM

I am familiar but I am more frustrated that no one appears to be listening and that bothers me.

I'm talking about the higher-ups, the people who pull the strings.

And what's the point of getting involved at the state level if you can't make your voice heard? I am already a member of a State Commission on Native American Affairs. All I see at our meetings is bickering and the meetings go nowhere. I find it hard to raise my voice when everyone else is arguing about semantics. I feel ashamed because I joined that Commission to help other native peoples in my state and all I see is bickering.

I should have mentioned this but I am already trying to get involved and I find it highly frustrating.

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 12:39 PM

Well, the only person I see out there that is fighting for us and who is growing in popularity every day is Ron Paul. If more of us got behind him SOMETHING could happen.

And yes many people are sleeping; they are drugged, they are victims of brainwashing, they watch TV, they read the manipulated mainstream media, they eat food with no nutritional value, they pop pharmaceuticals like candy and drink too much alcohol.

Some days I am ready to give up and just continue being a slave.

Today is not the day to do that and that is why I desire to inspire people through Ron Paul's efforts to stand up and fight for their rights.

It's the people's choice, fight or flight. Now is the time to decide.

Ron Paul and Peter Schiff were Right !!!!!!!

"When we make a mistake, it is the obligation of the people through their representatives to correct the mistake, not to continue it." Ron Paul

VIDEO (10:01): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbSCaL0Jukc&NR=1

Here are two other great videos just sent to me by a fellow Avalon member, who by the way refers to Ron Paul as an anti-politician:

Two versions; StephenWolf's
Monster #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfkpi...eature=related

Monster #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3L1uZ3Chtg

giovonni · 02-17-2009, 12:42 PM

I sense you both (peaceandlove and Humble Janitor) have more in common here than most> you both love America!
Such passion giovonni

Steve_A · 02-17-2009, 01:56 PM

Hi Humble Janitor,

I think I see a different picture than you do. I hope we're looking at the same page.

I'm neither Republican nor Democrat - I don't even like politics, it's a dirty game, but I am for common sense, and I'm sure you are which is why, between you and me, it gets so frustrating at times because we see what's really in front of us and the politicians care not to see, for political reasons (which is why politics is dirty), or just can't see because of common sense! They are only human after all.

In the case of Ron Paul, I don't beleive he is a whinging Republican. On the contrary, the other day he rippe into the last eight years of American Government like nothing I've ever seen. He has, as has Peter Schiff, as have the Republicans in general, offered an alternative solution, which was to let the markets play out their course naturally.

It will be more difficult in the short term, but in the long run things will work themselves out. In other words, some well known banks and companies will go to the wall and in the future, when the opportunity arrives, other new banks and companies will be created.

I think Ron Pauls' argument is that the current administration is trying to stave off what is inevitable and will spend money that it doesn't have to try and do it. When the inevitable happens, the Americans will be in a worse state because there willbe a depression, but added to that there will be the added national debt. It's like asking what's worse; a depression or a depression with a national deficit?

The economic problem wasn't created by tax cuts, it was created because the US bought more than it sold. You can have income tax at 0%, but if you still buy more than you sell you're still in for bankrupcy. Ask any business man. Balancing the books of the government is the same as balancing the books of a business, just a little more complex.

The biggest market in the world is in the US and the smallest player in this market is the US. So the US imports all that it needs, but doesn't produce enough for export to cover the cost of the imports and just prints money to pay for it. That basically is the gist of the problem. That and risky business by the banks (but that's more of a domestic thing).

Ron Paul and Peter Schiff have two distinct ideas of how to try and get through the mess with the minimum of damage and none of it comes through party lines, merely economical.

I sympathise with you about group meetings. I've been to a few and have had the urge to grab the mike to say what I really think, but of course didn't.

I know how you feel.

Best regards,

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

All I see is more "blah blah blah" from the obstructionist Republicans in Congress.

Either you do SOMETHING or you do NOTHING.

Suppose the Stimulus DIDN'T pass? Now what? More ******* tax cuts? We're past 8 years of tax cuts. Where are the jobs that were suppose to be created as a result of these tax cuts?

I'm getting sick and tired of some of the topics here. The stimulus is NOT an insult to taxpayers. The partisan attitudes of Republicans and their supporters is THE insult to Americans everywhere.

There will never be anything but partisan bickering and it should be made clear that Project Avalon and Project Camelot are NOT the places for such one-sided topics.

Since when did these sites become a hangout for Ron Paul/Free State Project cronies?

*edit- You'll have to excuse me. I'm just getting incredibly annoyed at the constant topics that criticize something but offer NOTHING as an alternative or they stick to the same old "solutions" that we've seen from the PTB over the years. *

THE eXchanger · 02-17-2009, 02:42 PM

imagine if there was
7.2 billion people divided by 800 billion
just how rich, all of us, could be ???

NOW, if it was divided equally
that, would have more, than just fix or stimulate the economy
IT WOULD have totally re_created everyone
and, given everyone a brand new start in life
which, would make a balanced & new economy

(this is just further truth,
that people with degrees in economics, and,
business & money, who are in the elected offices,
are, not only brainless, they, also do NOT a clue,
about how to right, a sinking ship,
nor, do they know, how to do the right type of thing,
to make changes, that, would help the people they elect)

i hope people show up to their local MPs / or elected officals offices,
and, make their voices known

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXchanger

(this is just further truth,
that people with degrees in economics, and,
business & money, who are in the elected offices,
are, not only brainless, they, also do NOT a clue,
about how to right, a sinking ship,
nor, do they know, how to do the right type of thing,
to make changes, that, would help the people they elect)

i hope people show up to their local MPs / or elected officals offices,
and, make their voices known

I hope you are not referring to Ron Paul, who is an avid supporter of Austrian Economics not Keynesianism.

Ron Paul statements:

• "In reality, this bill is just an escalation of a government-created economic mess. As before, a sense of urgency and impending doom is being used to extract mountains of money from Congress with minimal debate..... We are again being promised that its passage will help employment, help homeowners, help the environment, etc. These promises are worthless. This time around especially, Congress should know better than to pass anything of this magnitude without first reading the fine print."

• "At least $4 billion is allocated to expanding the police state and the war on drugs ... and the COPS program, both of which are corrupt and largely ineffective programs."

• "To help Big Brother keep a better eye on us and our children, $20 billion would go towards health information technology, which would create a national system of electronic medical records without adequate privacy protection." [To read a warning about this RFID-related threat to privacy check out The New American magazine online in a 2005 edition]

• "$79 billion bails out states that haphazardly expanded their budgets during the bubble years, but refuse to retrench and cut back, as their taxpayers have had to, during recession years."

• "$200 million expands Americorps. $100 million goes to “faith-and-community” based organizations for social services, which will further insinuate the government into charity and community service."

• "Of course the bill is rife with central planning projects."

• "This bill delivers an additional debt burden of $6,700 to every American man, woman and child."

• "There is a lot of stimulus and growth in this bill – that is, of government. Nothing in this bill stimulates the freedom and prosperity of the American people. Politician-directed spending is never as successful as market-driven investment. Instead of passing this bill, Congress should get out of the way by cutting taxes, cutting spending, and reining in the reckless monetary policy of the Federal Reserve."

Surial · 02-17-2009, 03:56 PM

The Stimulus deal is for those in control. Those in control do not want to give up their power. The economic system is developed to keep the population competing towards survival. This gives those in power leverage to do other things behind the scenes.

It is not natural to run a civilization in such a way. Although it is a familiar system of rule which is compared to the Roman Empire. The Romans eventually broke apart. It is history repeating itself.

We are entering a new age where old systems are falling apart. People are getting wiser. So embrace for a revolution on Earth. Because I think people are getting tired of being slaves.

It is interesting to think that we are the only planet in the galaxy that has to pay to live. We already have the technology and resources to solve all our problems. Unfortunately it is the greed of our human race that is keeping this planet a prison. We have been kept in isolation.

Until we learn to create a love based system for resources, the lesson of good and evil will still continue. There will be others that will move forward past this old way of thinking and go to the next lesson on the distribution of love.

But this nasty energy will have to play itself out. And we all know what that means. Those of you that are awake will shake your heads at the ignorance of those that are creating all these problems to learn the last lesson. And that lesson may destroy much in the process. The human experiment of good versus evil must come to an end.

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 04:04 PM

Welcome Back Surial, Messenger of Light

THE eXchanger · 02-17-2009, 04:10 PM

i think RON PAUL -- got all the brains

i love RON PAUL

i was referring to those, in congress, who don't know

he is one, of a small handful, that are waking up

peaceandlove · 02-17-2009, 04:31 PM

I didn't think you meant Ron Paul, the 'anti-politician'.

Here is the whole list linked at chrismartenson.com site. I can understand why no one in Congress had time to read it. Whew.

The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending
by Michael Grabell and Christopher Weaver, ProPublica - February 13, 2009 10:24 am EST

Feb. 13, 10:55p.m.: This post was updated to reflect that the Senate voted for the stimulus package.

The House approved the economic stimulus plan Friday afternoon with a vote of 246 to 183, followed by the Senate with a vote of 60 to 38. Want to know what's in it? You could read the 1,071-page gorilla that passed today. Or you could let us do the work for you. We’ve dissected the beast in two charts – one for spending below, and one for taxes.

List Here: http://www.propublica.org/special/th...st-of-spending

oldpaganfreak · 02-17-2009, 05:34 PM

the bill includes tax credits for purchasing golf carts???!!!
that's sure to delight poor folks struggling to feed their families..........sheesh!!

giovonni · 02-17-2009, 05:41 PM

I find it very refreshing, hearing all these very logical perspectives. Which logically, should remind us and bring us back to who and what is causing these barriers too real change? It's not the republicans nor the democrates or even the new world order advocates> its the greed, desire and total manipulation of a few for complete control of everything! They have and will continue too disease this world, as long as we go along with them?

This morning, I heard a spokeperson for the US auto industry, arguing why they need 13 billion dollars to stay in the auto making business.

This person continued to argue, how good the GM products have gotten!

Now that's wonderful news, but really irreverant, since Toyota surpassed them this past year, but can't even sell their products

Now, if this spokeperson, was to announce that GM was going to use some of this bailout money to convert its vast US manufacturing facilities and resources into (say) creating new high tech solar roofing components for environmentally friendly housing unit kits

then that would be a wonderful start!

Steve your simple but logical economic sense is right on as usual; And Susan (exchanger), well your idea makes too much sense!! The idea of distrubuting the money into the hands of those that need it most

Well that would really cos the politicians and bankers too really start

and

Now, what would the people do with it? Well some

would spend it of course! But ~ I have a feeling many (at least for the next few generations), would not repeat our generation's blind trust and mistakes.

Then hopefully, our grandchildren's children would have an opportunity to wakeup to a real 4D new world

Humble Janitor · 02-17-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surial

The Stimulus deal is for those in control. Those in control do not want to give up their power. The economic system is developed to keep the population competing towards survival. This gives those in power leverage to do other things behind the scenes.

It is not natural to run a civilization in such a way. Although it is a familiar system of rule which is compared to the Roman Empire. The Romans eventually broke apart. It is history repeating itself.

We are entering a new age where old systems are falling apart. People are getting wiser. So embrace for a revolution on Earth. Because I think people are getting tired of being slaves.

It is interesting to think that we are the only planet in the galaxy that has to pay to live. We already have the technology and resources to solve all our problems. Unfortunately it is the greed of our human race that is keeping this planet a prison. We have been kept in isolation.

Until we learn to create a love based system for resources, the lesson of good and evil will still continue. There will be others that will move forward past this old way of thinking and go to the next lesson on the distribution of love.

But this nasty energy will have to play itself out. And we all know what that means. Those of you that are awake will shake your heads at the ignorance of those that are creating all these problems to learn the last lesson. And that lesson may destroy much in the process. The human experiment of good versus evil must come to an end.

Great perspective and you know what? I agree!

As for Ron Paul and the markets, we need to stop depending on the markets. The markets are not reliable and right now, it would be a foolish thing to rely solely on them.

Humble Janitor · 02-17-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpaganfreak

the bill includes tax credits for purchasing golf carts???!!!
that's sure to delight poor folks struggling to feed their families..........sheesh!!

Where does it say that? It could just be hearsay.

oldpaganfreak · 02-17-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

Where does it say that? It could just be hearsay.

On the tax side of the package, the tax credit for golf carts was retained, along with $300 million for Federal Employee Company Cars. And despite the role that home buying played in putting the economy into recession, the conference report also includes tax credits—up to $15,000—for buying new homes.

this is from the article in the initial link in the thread. (italics and bolding mine)

http://www.reason.com/news/show/131694.html

it blows me away......think they're thinking about the poor and disadvantaged. next, they'll allow deductions for country club memberships.

peaceandlove · 02-18-2009, 12:26 AM

'Stimulus': In The Long Run, We're All Broke
by Mytheos Holt

SOURCE: http://www.caivp.org/article/tax-ref...were-all-broke

The final draft of the by-this-point infamous economic stimulus bill has been released to the public, and as even the infamously liberal New York Times concedes, it's a mess. Reading more like the poorly written term paper of a drunken college student than an actual bill, the bill has been reportedly marked repeatedly with under-the-radar last-minute changes, all written in the untidy scrawl of overzealous legislators.

Unfortunately, unlike a marked-up essay, some of these untidy scrawls will end up costing hundreds of millions of dollars and adding even more unnecessary debt onto the bloated bill, which will already cost each individual American family thousands of dollars.

Article Continues at link above.

Anchor · 02-18-2009, 04:28 AM

"We're all broke". Yup agrees with my judgement that nothing that is done, stimulus or no-stimulus will save the economy.

Brining the economy to its knees is a painful process but it has to happen. It will accomplish two things:

1) make lots of progress with the de-fanging of the dark forces

2) make people who have not already realise it, realise that pretty much everything they ever knew was a lie and that they have been manipulated and exploited at almost every level of thier lives. They will be faced with a choice.

The days of darkness are nearly done, light dawns in greater amounts, but the death throws of that evil beast are going to need all the grounded love and light we can come up with as a collective of lightbringers to stop really bad "unforseen circumstances".

Even if we do manage to ameliorate these man made things, there are some Earth changes that will still need to be accomplished and they are happening whatever we do know, so even if a "George Green" style WW3 is averted you are still going to need to know how to survive in peaceful communities and with limited availablity of technology, food and water.

A..

02-17-2009, 11:37 AM	#3
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today All I see is more "blah blah blah" from the obstructionist Republicans in Congress. Either you do SOMETHING or you do NOTHING. Suppose the Stimulus DIDN'T pass? Now what? More ***** tax cuts? We're past 8 years of tax cuts. Where are the jobs that were suppose to be created as a result of these tax cuts? I'm getting sick and tired of some of the topics here. The stimulus is NOT an insult to taxpayers. The partisan attitudes of Republicans and their supporters is THE insult to Americans everywhere. There will never be anything but partisan bickering and it should be made clear that Project Avalon and Project Camelot are NOT** the places for such one-sided topics. Since when did these sites become a hangout for Ron Paul/Free State Project cronies? edit- You'll have to excuse me. I'm just getting incredibly annoyed at the constant topics that criticize something but offer NOTHING as an alternative or they stick to the same old "solutions" that we've seen from the PTB over the years. Last edited by Humble Janitor; 02-17-2009 at 11:41 AM.

02-17-2009, 12:21 PM	#5
Humble Janitor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,201	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today I am familiar but I am more frustrated that no one appears to be listening and that bothers me. I'm talking about the higher-ups, the people who pull the strings. And what's the point of getting involved at the state level if you can't make your voice heard? I am already a member of a State Commission on Native American Affairs. All I see at our meetings is bickering and the meetings go nowhere. I find it hard to raise my voice when everyone else is arguing about semantics. I feel ashamed because I joined that Commission to help other native peoples in my state and all I see is bickering. I should have mentioned this but I am already trying to get involved and I find it highly frustrating.

02-17-2009, 12:39 PM	#6
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today Well, the only person I see out there that is fighting for us and who is growing in popularity every day is Ron Paul. If more of us got behind him SOMETHING could happen. And yes many people are sleeping; they are drugged, they are victims of brainwashing, they watch TV, they read the manipulated mainstream media, they eat food with no nutritional value, they pop pharmaceuticals like candy and drink too much alcohol. Some days I am ready to give up and just continue being a slave. Today is not the day to do that and that is why I desire to inspire people through Ron Paul's efforts to stand up and fight for their rights. It's the people's choice, fight or flight. Now is the time to decide. Ron Paul and Peter Schiff were Right !!!!!!! "When we make a mistake, it is the obligation of the people through their representatives to correct the mistake, not to continue it." Ron Paul VIDEO (10:01): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbSCaL0Jukc&NR=1 Here are two other great videos just sent to me by a fellow Avalon member, who by the way refers to Ron Paul as an anti-politician: Two versions; StephenWolf's Monster #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfkpi...eature=related Monster #2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3L1uZ3Chtg Last edited by peaceandlove; 02-17-2009 at 02:31 PM.

02-17-2009, 12:42 PM	#7
giovonni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: within my heart Posts: 1,209	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today I sense you both (peaceandlove and Humble Janitor) have more in common here than most> you both love America! Such passion giovonni

02-17-2009, 02:42 PM	#9
THE eXchanger Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spiritual eXplorer-Canada Posts: 4,915	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today imagine if there was 7.2 billion people divided by 800 billion just how rich, all of us, could be ??? NOW, if it was divided equally that, would have more, than just fix or stimulate the economy IT WOULD have totally re_created everyone and, given everyone a brand new start in life which, would make a balanced & new economy (this is just further truth, that people with degrees in economics, and, business & money, who are in the elected offices, are, not only brainless, they, also do NOT a clue, about how to right, a sinking ship, nor, do they know, how to do the right type of thing, to make changes, that, would help the people they elect) i hope people show up to their local MPs / or elected officals offices, and, make their voices known

02-17-2009, 08:09 AM	#2
Carmen Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 992	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today That is so sad. I guess Obama oppointees were indicators of same ol---same ol stuff. Nothing new is spite of the great speeches

02-17-2009, 03:56 PM	#11
Surial Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 120	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today The Stimulus deal is for those in control. Those in control do not want to give up their power. The economic system is developed to keep the population competing towards survival. This gives those in power leverage to do other things behind the scenes. It is not natural to run a civilization in such a way. Although it is a familiar system of rule which is compared to the Roman Empire. The Romans eventually broke apart. It is history repeating itself. We are entering a new age where old systems are falling apart. People are getting wiser. So embrace for a revolution on Earth. Because I think people are getting tired of being slaves. It is interesting to think that we are the only planet in the galaxy that has to pay to live. We already have the technology and resources to solve all our problems. Unfortunately it is the greed of our human race that is keeping this planet a prison. We have been kept in isolation. Until we learn to create a love based system for resources, the lesson of good and evil will still continue. There will be others that will move forward past this old way of thinking and go to the next lesson on the distribution of love. But this nasty energy will have to play itself out. And we all know what that means. Those of you that are awake will shake your heads at the ignorance of those that are creating all these problems to learn the last lesson. And that lesson may destroy much in the process. The human experiment of good versus evil must come to an end.

02-17-2009, 04:04 PM	#12
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today Welcome Back Surial, Messenger of Light

02-17-2009, 04:10 PM	#13
THE eXchanger Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spiritual eXplorer-Canada Posts: 4,915	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today i think RON PAUL -- got all the brains i love RON PAUL i was referring to those, in congress, who don't know he is one, of a small handful, that are waking up

02-17-2009, 04:31 PM	#14
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today I didn't think you meant Ron Paul, the 'anti-politician'. Here is the whole list linked at chrismartenson.com site. I can understand why no one in Congress had time to read it. Whew. The Stimulus Plan: A Detailed List of Spending by Michael Grabell and Christopher Weaver, ProPublica - February 13, 2009 10:24 am EST Feb. 13, 10:55p.m.: This post was updated to reflect that the Senate voted for the stimulus package. The House approved the economic stimulus plan Friday afternoon with a vote of 246 to 183, followed by the Senate with a vote of 60 to 38. Want to know what's in it? You could read the 1,071-page gorilla that passed today. Or you could let us do the work for you. We’ve dissected the beast in two charts – one for spending below, and one for taxes. List Here: http://www.propublica.org/special/th...st-of-spending Last edited by peaceandlove; 02-17-2009 at 11:12 PM.

02-17-2009, 05:34 PM	#15
oldpaganfreak Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: great northern boreal forest Posts: 440	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today the bill includes tax credits for purchasing golf carts???!!! that's sure to delight poor folks struggling to feed their families..........sheesh!!

02-17-2009, 05:41 PM	#16
giovonni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: within my heart Posts: 1,209	Re: Here's What $800 Billion Buys Today I find it very refreshing, hearing all these very logical perspectives. Which logically, should remind us and bring us back to who and what is causing these barriers too real change? It's not the republicans nor the democrates or even the new world order advocates> its the greed, desire and total manipulation of a few for complete control of everything! They have and will continue too disease this world, as long as we go along with them? This morning, I heard a spokeperson for the US auto industry, arguing why they need 13 billion dollars to stay in the auto making business. This person continued to argue, how good the GM products have gotten! Now that's wonderful news, but really irreverant, since Toyota surpassed them this past year, but can't even sell their products Now, if this spokeperson, was to announce that GM was going to use some of this bailout money to convert its vast US manufacturing facilities and resources into (say) creating new high tech solar roofing components for environmentally friendly housing unit kits then that would be a wonderful start! Steve your simple but *logical economic sense* is right on as usual; And Susan (exchanger), well your *idea* makes too much sense!! The idea of distrubuting the money into the hands of those that need it most Well that would really cos the politicians and bankers too really start and Now, what would the people do with it? Well some would spend it of course! But ~ I have a feeling many (at least for the next few generations), would not repeat our generation's blind trust and mistakes. Then hopefully, our grandchildren's children would have an opportunity to wakeup to a real 4D new world

02-18-2009, 12:26 AM	#20
peaceandlove Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Turtle Island Posts: 2,776	'Stimulus': In The Long Run, We're All Broke 'Stimulus': In The Long Run, We're All Broke by Mytheos Holt SOURCE: http://www.caivp.org/article/tax-ref...were-all-broke The final draft of the by-this-point infamous economic stimulus bill has been released to the public, and as even the infamously liberal New York Times concedes, it's a mess. Reading more like the poorly written term paper of a drunken college student than an actual bill, the bill has been reportedly marked repeatedly with under-the-radar last-minute changes, all written in the untidy scrawl of overzealous legislators. Unfortunately, unlike a marked-up essay, some of these untidy scrawls will end up costing hundreds of millions of dollars and adding even more unnecessary debt onto the bloated bill, which will already cost each individual American family thousands of dollars. Article Continues at link above.

02-18-2009, 04:28 AM	#21
Anchor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 2,280	Re: 'Stimulus': In The Long Run, We're All Broke "We're all broke". Yup agrees with my judgement that nothing that is done, stimulus or no-stimulus will save the economy. Brining the economy to its knees is a painful process but it has to happen. It will accomplish two things: 1) make lots of progress with the de-fanging of the dark forces 2) make people who have not already realise it, realise that pretty much everything they ever knew was a lie and that they have been manipulated and exploited at almost every level of thier lives. They will be faced with a choice. The days of darkness are nearly done, light dawns in greater amounts, but the death throws of that evil beast are going to need all the grounded love and light we can come up with as a collective of lightbringers to stop really bad "unforseen circumstances". Even if we do manage to ameliorate these man made things, there are some Earth changes that will still need to be accomplished and they are happening whatever we do know, so even if a "George Green" style WW3 is averted you are still going to need to know how to survive in peaceful communities and with limited availablity of technology, food and water. A..