Is this Forum elitist?

[astropsyche]

Is the Forum navel-gazing and elitist? I cannot help wondering how many people living below the 'technology poverty' line consider the things which are posted on this Forum. Could it be true that we are indulging in contemplating our collective, well educated and well-nourished navels as our world deals with catastrophes of many kinds - not least the global currency crime which is being inflicted upon us. The continent where the current holocaust is being generated by post-colonial manipulations of the original oppressors is Africa. Not every country in Africa it is true - still, I wonder how useful and beneficial the comfortable prognostications posted here are for the human beings who dwell in these countries. Have we all given up on NOW [and the vast majority of world citizens] as we seek to share the visions of how a chosen or self-selected few can make it into the future??
As comfortable dwellers of the West, some of us may well survive whatever devastation MIGHT occur at SOME POINT, and Ground Crews everywhere will no doubt feel utterly vindicated by their foresight in preparing so well in the face of an as yet unspecified catastrophe. But stop and consider this - IF the energy and vision we selfishly expend here on trying to ensure the survival of the very few [per the instructions of the manuals] was collectively focused on overPowering the iniquities and cruelties perpetrated on millions [who are NOT in a position to speculate and prepare to survive ] that we just might be able to harness sufficient Positive Strength to avert this impending [possible] disaster we spend hours here discussing! Are we in danger of acting like spoiled rich kids who have no time to spare for poor ignorant other folks?
My honest and considered view is that we all need to look to our collective responsibilities as members of the human race and carefully consider what is to be gained from this Forum - to not turn our gaze from the misery of 9/10ths of humanity who do not share our good fortune. Not to give up on the rest of humanity and assume we are the inheritors of the Earth - we are some of the most open to newness and positivity, educated and compassionate folk - or are we?

[AndyH]

Originally Posted by astropsyche

Is the Forum navel-gazing and elitist? I cannot help wondering how many people living below the 'technology poverty' line consider the things which are posted on this Forum. Could it be true that we are indulging in contemplating our collective, well educated and well-nourished navels as our world deals with catastrophes of many kinds - not least the global currency crime which is being inflicted upon us. The continent where the current holocaust is being generated by post-colonial manipulations of the original oppressors is Africa. Not every country in Africa it is true - still, I wonder how useful and beneficial the comfortable prognostications posted here are for the human beings who dwell in these countries. Have we all given up on NOW [and the vast majority of world citizens] as we seek to share the visions of how a chosen or self-selected few can make it into the future??
As comfortable dwellers of the West, some of us may well survive whatever devastation MIGHT occur at SOME POINT, and Ground Crews everywhere will no doubt feel utterly vindicated by their foresight in preparing so well in the face of an as yet unspecified catastrophe. But stop and consider this - IF the energy and vision we selfishly expend here on trying to ensure the survival of the very few [per the instructions of the manuals] was collectively focused on overPowering the iniquities and cruelties perpetrated on millions [who are NOT in a position to speculate and prepare to survive ] that we just might be able to harness sufficient Positive Strength to avert this impending [possible] disaster we spend hours here discussing! Are we in danger of acting like spoiled rich kids who have no time to spare for poor ignorant other folks?
My honest and considered view is that we all need to look to our collective responsibilities as members of the human race and carefully consider what is to be gained from this Forum - to not turn our gaze from the misery of 9/10ths of humanity who do not share our good fortune. Not to give up on the rest of humanity and assume we are the inheritors of the Earth - we are some of the most open to newness and positivity, educated and compassionate folk - or are we?

Good post. Although not all of us are in the west, it's reasonable to assume that we are all above the technological poverty line as you put it.
How do you propose we bring those people in on this?
For that matter, I wonder sometimes if perhaps some people who are far more independant than us will fare better regardless of whatever scenario pans out?

I suppose there is no answer other than to make sure that the doom and gloom prophesised never comes to fruition....somehow.

[eaglespirit]

IF the energy and vision we selfishly expend here on trying to ensure the survival of the very few [per the instructions of the manuals] was collectively focused on overPowering the iniquities and cruelties perpetrated on millions [who are NOT in a position to speculate and prepare to survive ] that we just might be able to harness sufficient Positive Strength to avert this impending [possible] disaster we spend hours here discussing!

Hi Astropsyche, How are You?

IF the energy and vision we unselfishly expend here on trying to ensure the survival of the most...around mother earth

I believe that most of us here on this site ARE doing what I just stated above in my edited sentence...at least those here I am in touch with and those in my life in front of me that are "unselfishly" tuning into unconditional love are doing. Sending "healing and loving and oneness" energy all around mother earth by simply sending healing and loving and oneness energy in and with everything they think and feel and do in front of them and consciously sending these heartfelt intentions to EVERYONE on Mother Earh!

[LaRosa]

In South America, I know a lot a citizens are so low in technology, they have not a single clue about what a forum is. Never heard about Illuminati or stuff that is discussed here. Guess what? They are already prepared for whatever changes lays ahead and ready to fight for their survival. If they happens to be living in a safe zone, the might even be ignoring about the worldwide changes. I think the right thing to do is to educate one another. Between cultures and classes.
I give tech, you give grow, she give energy, different levels, same planet. Diversity, the best survival quality. Cheers!

[Rareheart]

The beauty of free will is that we all get to look at any situation in any light we choose. If you elect to see this gathering as elitist, then so be it. The number of opinions expressed here is only limited by the number of members.

Each opinion has as much value as any other.

This question is an excellent example of how each of us are guided by our own free will. Astropsyche...the question itself reveals you...just as any question anyone might ask speaks of who they are at any given time. Please ask more questions of this depth...well done.

Each question we ask tells great things of us.
Thanks for partaking of this forum.

All Love.

[Peer]

Originally Posted by LaRosa

In South America, I know a lot a citizens are so low in technology, they have not a single clue about what a forum is. Never heard about Illuminati or stuff that is discussed here. Guess what? They are already prepared for whatever changes lays ahead and ready to fight for their survival. If they happens to be living in a safe zone, the might even be ignoring about the worldwide changes. I think the right thing to do is to educate one another. Between cultures and classes.
I give tech, you give grow, she give energy, different levels, same planet. Diversity, the best survival quality. Cheers!

La Rosa, I think you have a very good point there and I was thinking the same about Africa.
In Africa most people are used to living on <parc< or on nothing at all or on what they can scratch from the trees around the village.
These circumstances have been caused by the greed of the few.
When that greed disappeares (for instance by a worldwide disaster) the africans are most likely better prepared for the living outdoors and having nothing but still surviving than we.
With this I don't mean to say we are not responsible for their poverty now because we are.

[Steve_A]

Hi Peer,

I totally agree. It's similar in the rural parts of Brazil, where the people live on 'next to nothing'. When the great economic meltdown really kicks in, what will they lose? Nothing. We can learn a lot by watching and copying these people.

On the other side of the coin, and this will highlight what I was saying earlier about our differences and realities, I saw a post on survival equipment. One of the items was a portable toilet! Figure that one out.

So we can see that we are all different with different needs and ideas.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Peer

La Rosa, I think you have a very good point there and I was thinking the same about Africa.
In Africa most people are used to living on <parc< or on nothing at all or on what they can scratch from the trees around the village.
These circumstances have been caused by the greed of the few.
When that greed disappeares (for instance by a worldwide disaster) the africans are most likely better prepared for the living outdoors and having nothing but still surviving than we.
With this I don't mean to say we are not responsible for their poverty now because we are.

[unloadedgunn]

It is clear that both Astro and Worlds agree that the forum is elitist at best and a waste of time/energy at worst. I have a suggestion: leave. It is very simple really. It always seems like the pragmatists while they might bicker slightly over semantics usually post helpful and realistic yet hopeful posts. The peacenicks who think we can love our way through the troubled times ahead...well we can all see from their posts HERE what we get from them. I have a VERY positive attitude about my future and the future of mankind, but I know we won't get through this thing with just positive intention alone. It will take that to be sure, but without food, and small insular communities, there will be no pockets of humanity left (if some whistle-blowers are right). I have OLY ONE problem with the Avalon Forum, and that is threads like this which contain NOTHING but idle rumination about inconsequential drivel.

However as a HOPEFUL guy, I am sure that after wading through the constant mindless banter, pathetic prognostification, and paranoid claims that the forum has been "highjacked", I will find some pearls of wisdom, and perhaps even *gulp* someone ready to DO MORE THAN JUST TALK, and who wants to get out of the system before it implodes.

Here's hoping that when the "clean up" happens here at Avalon,, threads like this one hit the dustbin first.

Originally Posted by unloadedgunn

It is clear that both Astro and Worlds agree that the forum is elitist at best and a waste of time/energy at worst. I have a suggestion: leave. It is very simple really. It always seems like the pragmatists while they might bicker slightly over semantics usually post helpful and realistic yet hopeful posts. The peacenicks who think we can love our way through the troubled times ahead...well we can all see from their posts HERE what we get from them. I have a VERY positive attitude about my future and the future of mankind, but I know we won't get through this thing with just positive intention alone. It will take that to be sure, but without food, and small insular communities, there will be no pockets of humanity left (if some whistle-blowers are right). I have OLY ONE problem with the Avalon Forum, and that is threads like this which contain NOTHING but idle rumination about inconsequential drivel.

However as a HOPEFUL guy, I am sure that after wading through the constant mindless banter, pathetic prognostification, and paranoid claims that the forum has been "highjacked", I will find some pearls of wisdom, and perhaps even *gulp* someone ready to DO MORE THAN JUST TALK, and who wants to get out of the system before it implodes.

Here's hoping that when the "clean up" happens here at Avalon,, threads like this one hit the dustbin first.

Hi unloadedgunn,

I think perhaps you might have misinterpreted some of my comments.. but certainly my intention...

I'd respectfully ask you to read some of my other posts on this forum, before rushing to judgement, or making such derogatory/dismissive comments quite so quickly...

I'm not at all the person you seem to have judged me as being!

No matter what my thoughts/feelings, I'm entitled as everyone else here to express my views, even if they do not exactly mirror your own. At least I aim to do so without any hint of personal attack/verbal nastiness...

I dont wish to enter into any argument with you (or anyone else!) but would just say that what might be judged "idle rumination about inconsequential drivel" by you, is actually quite important for me personally, and is, for me, part and parcel of the whole concept of 'acting' and 'doing' something positive for humanity.

When you say you wish "threads like this one hit the dustbin first"... that's not only closing down/dismissing other people's input/ideas/views, but, for someone who says they have "a VERY positive attitude about my future and the future of mankind", well, you seem to have made a pretty negative post here.

I dont want to fight, or have an ongoing discussion about it, am just trying to explain where I'm coming from a bit more.. as I think you're labelling me/judging me a bit harshly!

in peace,

[unloadedgunn]

I don't wish to argue either. My previous post expresses MY opinion, period. If you don't agree, that's OK. I hope that someday before TSHTF that this forum will be used to its potential, to establish community and give people the physical means to "opt out", until then... well I don't know whether we're elitist or alarmist, but we are like so many; afraid of real change and of taking responsibility for our actions.

As an aside if you are aspiring towards humanitarian aid on other continents, I would suggest the UNICEF, Heifer Project, Peace Corp, etc. websites. If you take this approach there will be MORE SUBSTANCE here for the casual observer. I am personally afraid that a first time viewer of this site might be immediately disillusioned or disgusted by the irrelevance of most of the posts and move on. This could literally cost lives... chew on that for a while.

Originally Posted by unloadedgunn

..) but we are like so many; afraid of real change and of taking responsibility for our actions.

As an aside if you are aspiring towards humanitarian aid on other continents, I would suggest the UNICEF, Heifer Project, Peace Corp, etc. websites. If you take this approach there will be MORE SUBSTANCE here for the casual observer. I am personally afraid that a first time viewer of this site might be immediately disillusioned or disgusted by the irrelevance of most of the posts and move on. This could literally cost lives... chew on that for a while.

Hi again

oh dear. I'm not sure whether to reply or just leave it alone to be honest, as I sense your tone is quite hostile towards me.

Anyroads, I do already take GREAT responsibility for my actions. And am no "aspiring" humanitarian.. I'm just me, and I already actively support and do my bit for several global and local causes, including ActionAid, Shelter, Water Aid and SOS Children's Villages, amongst others. I already do as much as I can, with limited time, energy and resources.

OK, I think perhaps we have to just leave our differences as differences... as we seem to be at some kind of impasse, even though seemingly aiming for the same ultimate purpose... SAVING LIVES!

in Peace,

[sammytray]

Originally Posted by AndyH

Good post. Although not all of us are in the west, it's reasonable to assume that we are all above the technological poverty line as you put it.
How do you propose we bring those people in on this?
For that matter, I wonder sometimes if perhaps some people who are far more independant than us will fare better regardless of whatever scenario pans out?

I suppose there is no answer other than to make sure that the doom and gloom prophesised never comes to fruition....somehow.

We are to focus on the WHOLE, individuals make up the whole so therefore are included in the whole. We must be "thinking" for the planet and humanity, the rest will fall into place through synchronicity. We also must be careful stepping into ANY victim/victim abuser role. Self responsibility is the "key" and the "key" is for unlocking humanity/planets cage.

[eaglespirit]

Thank You All!

As You can see..if Astropsyche did not start this thread...we probably would not have energized the antithesis of elitism and shown how we can ride the stream of change that will "feed" the world with love...in synchronistic exponentiality as more of Us than ever are getting together in loving consciousness in the now!
...
Everything Is Energy...Everything Is Alive!

Your Own Energy of Aliveness is fueled by Your Own Awareness and Feelings and Thoughts and Actions!

Hunger is a living being that we feed.
Prejudice is a living being that we feed.
Jealousy is a living being that we feed.
Hate is a living being that we feed.
Politics is a living being that we feed.
Greed is a living being that we feed.
War is a living being that we feed.
The 'powers that be' are a living being that we feed.

Stop feeding them and make a conscious decision to evict them all from our planet...your planet.

You each are of the loving power to do this... so just do it.

Embrace your own power of love instead of "allowing" those living beings of discord to feed off of you.

These living beings of disharmony will either change to love or leave...pronto!

[jaby]

Originally Posted by Worlds Beyond 2

Hi unloadedgunn,
I dont want to fight, or have an ongoing discussion about it, am just trying to explain where I'm coming from a bit more.. as I think you're labelling me/judging me a bit harshly!

The fact of the matter is that you have done your fair share of 'judging' in this thread...so you shouldn't be too surprised to be challenged. What goes around, comes around.

Originally Posted by unloadedgunn

I am personally afraid that a first time viewer of this site might be immediately disillusioned or disgusted by the irrelevance of most of the posts and move on. This could literally cost lives... chew on that for a while.

Again...you have hit the nail on the head. I like your forthright approach. And what you say is true about first time viewers...and this is why the forum clear out is a good idea. Active aggression AND passive aggression directed at this forum and the majority of genuine members...is a waste of everyone's time..........No matter how 'sweetly' it is presented........

[Elephant Man]

Hi, I have read some of the posts here but not all, forgive me if I repeat something.
I live in denmark, a very rich country, very! I dont consider myself wealthy, I'm a gardener, my wife a nurse. Not exactly high income, but we have 2 cars, own our own house, can afford to visit my country of birth (uk) whenever we feel like it, we eat well and have a very comfortable life. I do not feel guilty about having access to information that others do not and I dont feel elitist. In denmark just about every household has at least 1 pc and internet access, but if you try and talk to most of them about this kind of info, they dont want to know. Basically people have just got too much luxury and politically no one wants to rock the boat or make waves, cos they are too busy enjoying yet another flat screen t.v, mobile phone, cd, dvd player etc... virtually every person I talk to about NWO, media control, al gores climate fairy tale etc... just dont want to know, they have access to info and choose not to look at it, I used to get frustrated and even angry, but now I just think - ok your choice if you want to ignore it, fine. So this is the other end of the scale, the very wealthy choosing to ignore whats really happening, as opposed to poorer people who have no access to info.

read this link to see how a whole nation is being brainwashed, the writer really hits the nail on the head. btw I have lived here for 21 years.

http://www.rense.com/general83/dk.htm

peace

[sammytray]

Originally Posted by Elephant Man

Hi, I have read some of the posts here but not all, forgive me if I repeat something.
I live in denmark, a very rich country, very! I dont consider myself wealthy, I'm a gardener, my wife a nurse. Not exactly high income, but we have 2 cars, own our own house, can afford to visit my country of birth (uk) whenever we feel like it, we eat well and have a very comfortable life. I do not feel guilty about having access to information that others do not and I dont feel elitist. In denmark just about every household has at least 1 pc and internet access, but if you try and talk to most of them about this kind of info, they dont want to know. Basically people have just got too much luxury and politically no one wants to rock the boat or make waves, cos they are too busy enjoying yet another flat screen t.v, mobile phone, cd, dvd player etc... virtually every person I talk to about NWO, media control, al gores climate fairy tale etc... just dont want to know, they have access to info and choose not to look at it, I used to get frustrated and even angry, but now I just think - ok your choice if you want to ignore it, fine. So this is the other end of the scale, the very wealthy choosing to ignore whats really happening, as opposed to poorer people who have no access to info.

read this link to see how a whole nation is being brainwashed, the writer really hits the nail on the head. btw I have lived here for 21 years.

http://www.rense.com/general83/dk.htm

peace

It seems those with "money", "wealth" ,- comfortable etc... will be the last to wake up. For those who do not "know", why would they want to when everything "seems" hunky dory. I have found that those with less pay attention MORE! I think there is a scripture that states "The meek shall inherit the earth".

[jaby]

Originally Posted by Elephant Man

Hi, I have read some of the posts here but not all, forgive me if I repeat something.
I live in denmark, a very rich country, very! I dont consider myself wealthy, I'm a gardener, my wife a nurse. Not exactly high income, but we have 2 cars, own our own house, can afford to visit my country of birth (uk) whenever we feel like it, we eat well and have a very comfortable life. I do not feel guilty about having access to information that others do not and I dont feel elitist. In denmark just about every household has at least 1 pc and internet access, but if you try and talk to most of them about this kind of info, they dont want to know. Basically people have just got too much luxury and politically no one wants to rock the boat or make waves, cos they are too busy enjoying yet another flat screen t.v, mobile phone, cd, dvd player etc... virtually every person I talk to about NWO, media control, al gores climate fairy tale etc... just dont want to know, they have access to info and choose not to look at it, I used to get frustrated and even angry, but now I just think - ok your choice if you want to ignore it, fine. So this is the other end of the scale, the very wealthy choosing to ignore whats really happening, as opposed to poorer people who have no access to info.

read this link to see how a whole nation is being brainwashed, the writer really hits the nail on the head. btw I have lived here for 21 years.

http://www.rense.com/general83/dk.htm

peace

Thanks for all that...and the link. Just read it. Very interesting...

[iamhearing]

Some may think they are elitist perhaps? and enjoy to intellectually analyse things to death, then physically do nothing.Yet i think we would all be surprised to discover that the majority of us do actually use the information constructively and by the universal ripple effect, vital information is shared, by simple word of mouth.

Best wishes

[norman]

Originally Posted by iamhearing

Some may think they are elitist perhaps? and enjoy to intellectually analyse things to death, then physically do nothing.Yet i think we would all be surprised to discover that the majority of us do actually use the information constructively and by the universal ripple effect, vital information is shared, by simple word of mouth.

Best wishes

I AM HEARING. You sure are ! ,,,,,,,,,,and in 3 lines too!


Is this forum "elitist"? ,,,,nnnNo, a better word would be "graced".

"Sharp shooting paranoid grubby middle class survivalist" would be far too unkind, and that would exclude most of the more influential members anyway.

"Build it and they will come" is a tad biblical and smacks of fictional heroism.

"Lead, follow or get out of the way" is N.A.T.Z.I. in long hand.

"Predictive excellence" just wouldn't apply.

"community building" sounds sweet until it gets trolled by common sense.

"Multi user programmable spiritual arrival". Now that's............. Naah, unless I'm missing something here.

HELP ! !

!

Nope. "Graced" is the word I pick. We're all very fortunate and the word adequately covers all of us.

[eaglespirit]

Originally Posted by norman

Is this forum "elitist"? ,,,,nnnNo, a better word would be "graced".

Nope. "Graced" is the word I pick. We're all very fortunate and the word adequately covers all of us.

With Ya, Norman : )

Sooooooo, Let's grease up our wing-joints with "grace" so that we may "act" as though 4th density love is here and now and it will "be" here and now and then we may come to have full use of our "graceful" wings to smoothly ride the loving winds into the 5th density of loving lightfulness! : )


The 4th(love) and 5th(love&light) are here, "Embrace With Grace!"

Hello all...

I want to come back to this thread to say something.. though I realise am in danger of re-highlighting a post that appears negative.. and I dont want to re-start any clashes.. with anyone!!

I'm here to say I'm really sorry if I offended anyone by my posts in this thread. Even though the essence of the points raised by Astropsyche did/do resonate with me personally in a certain sense ... I'm not sure if my feeling/intent was the same as how it came across.. as I was truly not meaning to 'attack' anyone here.. nor as a general 'attack' on this forum! I really didn't mean my comments to be taken as a blanket statement about PA/PC, nor all its mods/members, which I realise is how it might have looked. Yes, I was unhappy with a certain mod who behaved less than civilly to me last week, but that wasn't why I came back to Avalon to post nor what I was orignially trying to convey.

I really didn't mean to cause any offence or upset, and I'm sorry if I did folks. I considered (yesterday) editing my posts, but felt that was in some way evading responsibility or might appear like trying to hide something ?? .. so I left them alone and instead taken time to think about the whole thing and examine my conscience/self before posting here now.

my wording wasn't quite as calm or clear as I felt/intended.. (sometimes I wish email/writing could be HEARD as well as read, as our 'tone' can so easily be misread!) ... and yes, possibly subconsciously I was still feeling a tad upset/unfairly treated and shocked by what had happened with my posts/one of mods the previous week... I felt that whole thing was harsh/unreasonable and felt like I was being 'lumped in' with others who were seemingly being classed as 'troublemakers' or having some personal axe to grind against PA/PC.. which absoutely wasn't the case with me at all.. .

I have no connections with ANYONE on PC/PA, nor any other forum or site, nor any axe to grind or personal agenda. I truly joined here last month with an open & happy heart, to learn / share / grow like anyone, and relieved to have found somewhere discussing the issues that mean a lot to me.

As Astropsyche said in his/her last post, I too was including myself in the 'maybe we're all sat here navel-gazing too much' train of thought.. I had been seriously questioning myself about sitting here on PA/PC (and internet in general) so much, when there's so much to be done out in the 'real' world... I know I personally question myself LOTS on how much time/resources I spend doing things for 'ME' vs 'OTHERS'... especially as i am mostly unable to physcially get out and about to actively 'DO' things due to health (or lack of it! lol) .... and truth is, I had (after last weeks events) been feeling/wondering if PA/PC was a bit like a closed/cliquey "club" in some ways.... maybe also because I'm new to Forums/internet chat in general ?

I've always been passionate about injustices/helping others in this world who are suffering or being mistreated, that's my own journey, if that makes me an "aspiring humanitarian" (or anything else) in someone else's eyes, that's ok.... maybe I come across as too intense when trying to put forward my views.. ? possibly too many years being so political or active/vocal in trying to 'change the system' ?!

I know PA/PC is not about humanitarian/aid/charity work.. but in some strange way, to me these issues are not unlinked/disconnected from the overall purpose of PA .... or the coming events!!! I feel such a strong sense of injustice and indifference in this world to the plights/suffering of so many others (the 'out of sight, out of mind' mentality of so many).. just as I feel same way about the way the PTB/controllers of this world treat all us 'minions' etc... for me, the coming events/ascension/whatever is going to happen, is about people coming together/helping others, be it global scale or local... we just all have differing perceptions of what it is we feel we need to do I guess...

for me, I really do sometimes sit and wonder to myself 'who the hell am I to be sat around thinking/reasearching about 2012, or whether I get taken out by a global flood, or earthquake, or whether UFO's will land, or Spirit will walk the earth, or if it'll be the 'nightmare scenario' some folks think.. when there's millions of folks with no food to eat today or tmorrow, nor a glass of clean water to drink, let alone a safe place to sleep?'.... I really DO question myself about these things. Lots. But please understand.... thats just MY own path, MY stuff, MY experieince and MY personal feelings/thoughts. I'm NOT saying it has to be yours !!!!

I get myself through my worst days (in terms of health/pain/symptoms) by reminding myself that there's so many suffering in MUCH greater ways than me.. and finding reasons to feel thankful to at least be alive/on this earth to see another day. Point is, I never ever meant to guilt-trip or lecture anyone else at all... we all have reasons to feel grateful, and we do all have our own paths to tread... this is just mine.

I try to share my thoughts/views in here, not impose them.. I realise I tend to write a lot, and also I write down exactly as my thoughts/feelings happen.. (old habits die hard I guess!) .. so it can be a bit like a 'stream of consciousness' as opposed to pre-planned/edited highlights of what's running through my mind! I also often have great difficulty writing/typing due to my condition, so it can take a LONG time for me write a post and by time I've finished writing I'm sometimes not feeling great (pain) so just hit "Submit Reply" without re-reading what I've written...Not an excuse, but does explain a bit! It's just how I write.. I suppose it either makes for interesting reading, or is a great cure for terminal insomnia, depending upon your personal view!!

Anyway, I certainly didn't mean to be judgemental or demeaning to anyone here in expressing how I was feeling/thinking since last week. I HAD been questioning myself and my own navel-gazing, as well as whether or not to return to PA after last weeks events ... and when I looked in and saw someone else voicing what I'd been mulling over.. and I just jumped in feet first!

Anyroads.. I just wanted to apologise if I upset anyone. I tried to say in my posts that I was not referring to all here... but maybe I didn't take enough care/time over wording what I was trying to say, and ended up giving a skewed impression, of my point of view, and of myself. Certainly I seem to have elicited quite a strong reaction from some folks, and whether all their comments/views about me/what sort of person I am are warranted or justified is not for me to say/judge...

but I will take more care in future about how I share my feelings/views here !

Humble apologies



p.s. Astropsyche.. why not give it another shot? There's soom good folk, and well intentioned folk in here.. and possibly like me, what you were trying to say in your thread didn't come across quite as intended?? Up to you!

[371]

.

[unloadedgunn]

Well astro, if I understand what you are saying. It boils down to something like "don't we all have a lot of gall to be contemplating these deep issues, when the 3rd world, which can not even hope to have its collective physical needs met hasn't the time, energy or capacity to ruminate like us fat and happy westerners"

I will attempt to convey my 2 cents about this...here goes.

1) We have ALL had our collective struggles NO MATTER what our ethnicity. I personally am Scottish, and not only have my clansman been persecuted and displaced generally by the Crown, but my clan SPECIFICALLY was marked by certain royals for total genocide...TWICE. Name and ethnic group (never mind I will) that hasn't been effected adversely by the PTB... um, I can't really think of one so I will list the ones who HAVE been screwed over.

The Native Americans, Aztecs, Aborigines, Africans, Central and South Americans, Eskimos, Hawaiians, Tibetans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Jews, Germans, Pretty much all the Slavics, Iraqis, Muslims, Palestinians, Maoris, Timorese, Serbs, Philipinos, Albanians, Indians, etc. So just because our status TODAY places us above worrying about our day-to-day needs and affords us the opportunity to dwell on the issues discussed herein...well that brings me to item 2.

2) IF YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ HERE, ASTRO, THEN YOU BELIEVE THAT OUR TURN IS COMING! How many of the whistleblowers do you have to listen to before you believe that in all likelihood the next MAJOR war will occur on AMERICAN soil? Perhaps we have enjoyed a few years of relative peace, but we may yet pay for it in the end. Relative peace brings me to item 3.

3) Our ancestors arrived here as early as around 1600 and STRUGGLED to eke out a living. I am still awestruck by the vast stretches of pasture here in New England with all of the stone walls. I am in awe of it because this was done by back breaking labor, blood, sweat, and tears...um and maybe an oxen or two. The early settlers worked 18 hour days to get us where we are today. THEN came the Revolutionary War, then the Civil War, the mass slaughter which was WW II, then Korea, then Viet Nam, the Grenada, then Gulf War I, then Bosnia, then Afganistan, then Gulf War II, now we have the ugly specter of a potential conflict with Iran looming on the horizon, and I personally think we WILL be seeing Chinese and/or Russian troops HERE with 2 years.

4) On a more personal note; my mom was a single parent raising 4 children with no child support, before that, during the Depression, my uncle had to "jack" deer in order to put food on the table. WE ALL pull ourselves up from whatever our environmental conditions to become what we are (MAYBE) See if you believe any of the metaphysical ***** you read on this site, then you believe that we make a choice to incarnate into whatever situation we now find ourselves in. I'm guessing the poor African baby who dies of an easily curable condition like diarhea, gets where its going a lot quicker than you and me, fat and happy as we are.

5) If we, who have the time energy and the computers to study this stuff, and hopefully DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, don try, who will???

If you ask me if we are elitist (meaning me) I would have to say "no". You on the other hand...

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

Is a peace corps volunteer elitist by bringing new knowledge and new ways of doing things? Perhaps.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Instead of pontificating, how about rolling up your sleeves and getting some community building done. That IS
what Avalon is all about.

There is much work to do and little time. Action talks BS walks. I'm typing this by kerosene lamp light. Why?
So I know how. My Dave Gingery metalshop series just arrived. It is my intention to build my own metal lathe and Savonious Rotor. Why? So I know how, and can teach YOU when the time arrives.

I am looking for serious action minded people to help us research for Avalon. We are looking for a cadre of people all over the world to form a nucleus for the radiant zones. Help us to help you. Trolls need not apply.

[THE eXchanger]

probably close to 80% of the world,
will NEVER show up online,
you know, the ones, that make less than $5/day,
and, some of them, even less $2/day

maybe, they are the free ones !!!

they make what they need in a day
invest, part of that into tomorrow
and, then, they repeat the process

if you travel around the world
into places like mainland china
you will meet some of them

they are happy
and, seem to be quite fulfilled
with NOT a lot of stuff/or stuffing

i will bet, that they keep the collective consciousness
quite well balanced, since, they do NOT know
what it means, to line up at a bank
nor, to get beyond tomorrow,
they live, in this day

they play simple games, they tell storys,
they don't have a clue, what a credit bureau is,
and, probably do NOT have some sort of
strawman/id #

and, they live very close to the earth !!!

someday; i would love to go around the world
and, create a documentary,
about the "real people"

brightest blessings
susan
the eXchanger