Gun Protection

[thedarke]

With everything that is being discussed and the potential upcoming changes and events that are going to occur, would you recommend purchasing a gun or a weapon of some sorts.....or do you feel it would be pointless. I have been considering this with the current economy and news of changes occuring.

If a martial law scenario were to happen you would not want a gun. I got some pretty good advice from a martial law survival guide and it basically said to forget about guns and get 17% pepper spray from the net. In South America when people were found with guns they were shot with no questions asked.

The pepper spray is very strong and I think a good alternative.

[thedarke]

What was the name of the martial law survivors guide or book. do you have a link you could share with everyone? Would you recommend someone buys a a tazer gun?

[Excalibur]

personally I think you should consider getting a rifle or shotgun that could be used for hunting primarily and defensive protection second. if things deteriorate into the worst case scenario you will not be able to acquire food through the traditional channels, and there will be some desperate folks out there who's primary objective will be to take from those that have no ability to resist. I really hope it does not come to that but I think it is prudent to prepare for that scenario.

[Artificial Intelligence]

The only thing standing between us and the government is the fact that we have a Constitutional right to own guns. This is most definitely a plus for us.

[Morphious]

The main reason our four fathers made an amendment to Let every american carry a gun is to protect us from the powers that be. In other words They (the four fathers) Knew that there would come a time that great power would be givin to people with very bad intentions. More less to protect youeself from ANY person invading your home or proporty!! And The constitution is already in the bucket so to speak because not every american can own a gun ....like me..I have a felony , and that means i DO NOT have the right to protect myself ...Isnt that just fan-frikin-tastic ???? The felony is alchohol related BTW....Yea..I love my country...

[Equalitor]

If there would be chaos, you would optimize your survival chances by having a rifle and having trained a lot with it. Choose one with metal sights [the ones bolted to the rifle at the top front and the second closer to you], and a good scope, so that if your scope gets damaged you would have an extra chance. Pick ammo type after what is normal in your area and cheap, so you can buy lots. Never knows when the world is normal again. By choosing a popular ammo amongst other people you can also take their ammo if you need to! [I would only do that if they were dead, gone or bartered with me. One have to uphold morale].
Now, by rifle I do not mean the AR-15 thing, even though they would be good in close combat. Never having hold one I guess they are heavier and more troublesome at long distances, not to mention the magazine that sticks out so unconviniently. But there are many fans of these, especially in the US. Most normal hunting rifles have small magazines that would let you take down your target anyway, and half automatic ones are around. The normal ones are more reliable than machine guns, and easier to maintain. Also, having not so many but enough shots to take out big animals, you would not spray to much ammo on them, but learn to consider each shot carefully.

Monotony: If guns were to be banned for the civil, good for us really. Less people to think about with guns out there! But you [and I] would hide our guns away in a VERY safe place, perhaps out in the bush, where chances of survival would be best. With a small team of course, and hideout. We are stronger together, but not too many.

Morphious: Letting almost everyone own almost any gun in America for "self defense" sounds strange to me. Are not the ones you defend against robbers, criminals and crazy youth, who loves that the guns are so easy to get hold of? Most ones who are shot never carry the guns on themselves anyway, even if they are in their own house, making it pointless, because it is so easy to take civilians by surprise!
America has one of the highes murder rates in the world. That is not self defence. Look to Canada, where they are not so afraid to lock their doors at night. Let handguns be banned for the safety of all!
And also, the american government [and many more] don't want the best for their people. That is why we are here. They won't be bothered that their peoples are decimating, when it is mostly the poor people that gets shot.

BTW, I have never owned a gun but very soon will [legally] I have shot very little with hunting rifles but I know they are the right kind for this environment in Europe at least. And I love to read about the subject, finding peoples experiences all over the net.
Check out www.survivalistboards.com for almost any info you need for practical survival.

Edited some grammars

[Stinkhorn]

If there is martial law, the US gov will collect all firearms by force, look at new orleans, they had lists of gun owners, sought them out and took their weapons.

Are you willing to kill 12 to 30 US soldiers commanded to take your weapons? Are you capable to do so? I am sure if you resisted from your home, they would move in a tank or 2 and level your home. Hell, they could do it from 10 miles away.

Hide your weapons well, they will enter your home by force and take whatever they want. Some soldiers my disent, but the rest will follow orders blindly.

[Equalitor]

If they would want to take weapons at all in war or the like, even just hunting types, you could do several things to evade "legally" theft.
1. You could report your [extra] weapon "stolen" [rather long before you know about chaos] and hide it somewhere extremely safe, preferably in the deep woods. A friend could steal it for you, giving you a chance to have a good alibi.
2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
3. "Run to the hills, run for your life" before they come to you. Staying in a populated area is a deathtrap anyway, which most people live in. Never underestimate people in a desperate situation, even those you know.

As I live in Norway I think this never would happen, but you never know either. I hope the day will never come, even though I find it fun to organize and spreading the word!

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, Folks:

I've been reading this with interest, and thanks for all your thoughts and contributions.

I suggest the best way to approach this is as described by many Martial Arts masters, in various ways over the centuries.

It's as applicable now as it was in China 3,000 years ago.

[my paraphrase]

* If you use your weapon, then you've already lost the fight.

* A real warrior is a peacemaker... and always knows when to walk away.

And, from Gandhi:

* Be the change you want to see in the world.

For the record, these are our values at Projects Camelot and Avalon and are shared by thousands of people who write to us. We don't want to curtail any intelligent and informed discussion and there's no implied criticism of anyone here. But the above is my $.02 worth.

Very best to all, Bill

Just another tool in the well rounded kit, and another
skill to master. Important point this; your gear won't
save you but your skill set might.

At my local gun shop all the employees open carry holstered sidearms. The message is clear without
saying a word. In keeping with Bill's statement about
being forced to use one.

Another point. Never forget that weapons do not protect your food. Food protects your weapons.

Regarding confiscation. Refer to the point above and develop your caching skills. If they come to my
house I will be happy to give them the single shot .22 chipmunk in the gun cabinet

[feynman]

In Australia we had all our guns taken away from us.
All it took was a crazy Tasmanian walking into a resort
and killing a few score people.

We handed them over willingly.

When you Americans get forced to hand in your guns...
game over.

I agree that having a gun during martial law will be
v e r y d a n g e r o u s

Then again I wouldn't want to be in a anarchic America
without one.

In Australia its different. No guns.
Guns are for the criminals, police and a few clubs who
they let still let own guns.

I'm for gun ownership.
And I do worry about brutes roaming the land
when things get desperate.

I like the ideas presented above.

In Australia I fear invading Indonesian gangs
when there is no longer a navy to keep them out.
That terrifies me.

In Australia you can't buy a gun.
So I have no option.
I will learn how to make a hunting bow.

[thedarke]

I appreciate everyone's input here, and it all makes great and logical sense. I try to stay off the grid as much as possible and being on a list of being a gun owner, is not what I want. Eyes are opening wide, thanks again.

Originally Posted by feynman

In Australia you can't buy a gun.
So I have no option.
I will learn how to make a hunting bow.

G'day Blue,

There are always options. Always.

Look what your pommie cousin has done where they want to outlaw butter knives...

http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/homemadeammo.shtml

When the need arises the tools will be there. Or as Gary
Ray Hickman, former special forces medic, is so fond
of saying, "The best way to avoid a punch is to not be
there. But when push comes to shove I'll be shooting
what you're shooting in the morning..."

[Ceilidh_Madigan@yahoo.com]

[QUOTE=Equalitor;3866]
2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
/QUOTE]

i think we should also remember that this chaos has not ACTUALLY hapened yet, we still live in a system of laws, and suggesting people commit a felony, I think, isn't helpful.

On that note, I'm starting to think the pepper spray thing would be ideal for self defense in urban areas. If you live in an urban area, if martial law is declared city houses may be searched but I doubt rural areas will get the same scrutiny. In any case, when it comes to living it ruff, many native peoples could hunt competently without guns. Perhaps research trapping techniques. Ultimately everyone should follow their conscience, and be prepared however they feel necessary. Lets just not try to end up in jail BEFORE it all goes down, as that's definitely the last place you wanna be...

[Equalitor]

[QUOTE=Ceilidh_Madigan@yahoo.com;17338]

Originally Posted by Equalitor

2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts..
/QUOTE]

i think we should also remember that this chaos has not ACTUALLY hapened yet, we still live in a system of laws, and suggesting people commit a felony, I think, isn't helpful.

On that note, I'm starting to think the pepper spray thing would be ideal for self defense in urban areas. If you live in an urban area, if martial law is declared city houses may be searched but I doubt rural areas will get the same scrutiny. In any case, when it comes to living it ruff, many native peoples could hunt competently without guns. Perhaps research trapping techniques. Ultimately everyone should follow their conscience, and be prepared however they feel necessary. Lets just not try to end up in jail BEFORE it all goes down, as that's definitely the last place you wanna be...

I understand your concern. If I was about to get unlegal weapons, the situation would be VERY close to being critical and I stood without a huntingweapon. I don't think that will happen. If I was told my weapon was to be taken in [probably they would just knock on my door and ask for it] I would of course take off to the woods at once. But I would not be the first to be searched in that case, and some media would find out what was going on. Eventually I could be warned by friends.
If there was to be war here, they would not take guns, but arm as many as possible against invading enemies.

How would pepperspray be for defending/scaring against a pack of robbers in the city you think? They actually organize smart too: In groups! It would make them far angrier and hunt you for a lifetime, if you got away from the bullet rain and having wounded one. You could really dream of a pump action shotgun then. Oh mama.. Staying away from cities are the smartest anyway, and store anything useful out of town.

And how to take down a large moose with snares, or even a [cross]bow in a windy, dusk, quite thight forest at 150 meters [450 ft]? Not to think about a deer in the same situation. Remember that you would want a meal of meat more than once a month if you run out of shelf food... and something other than mice and occacional fish only.

It's nothing personal. Just that I would not accept such conditions for myself, and are interested in others opinions.

You get credit for wanting peaceful solutions, but it is not the weapon who decides your actions. If you do not want to kill people in self defense, just shoot them in the feet/legs/arms then. That is somewhat just as difficult as spraying them enough to drop their weapons, and having a WAY better reach. This is more easily done with a shotgun, as you can imagine. What if your attackers wear facemasks for defending against such things as pepperspray? If they wear bulletproof vests you would at least have tried, and with most normal vests they really feel it if they are hit at 3 meters anyway. Guess they would breake a rib bone, or two. The feet and arms are always unarmored. Those options gives you a second chance to knock them out any way you want, when they feel shock and pain by being shot somewhere.

Just my little word.
-Eq

[Anti-Ignorance]

I honestly believe in this day and age, and the times we are facing, we must exercise every single right we still have left. They are slowly stripping away the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and they have been trying for decades to take the guns from the people. I think it is a crime if you DO NOT own a gun in America.

It is the knowledge that there is a gun, the threat, which is the real advantage when it comes to defense. You learn to fight so you don't have to. It will also be helpful for hunting purposes.

I already owned a handgun, and I recently purchased a rifle. I live in Texas, so they practically sell them in those little candy machines. But owning one is not good enough, you need to be experienced with it, learn to take it apart, practice proper safety, educate others, use it, fire it often, clean it. Be smart with it, hide it, especially when **** hits the fan, and only show it or use it when ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. The art of deception is the greatest tactic in any type of combat or competitive situation. Appear weak when you are strong. Appear dumb when you are smart, and vise versa.

Anyone who says that you will be killed for owning a gun, guns are dangerous, etc... well you have already lost the battle, because you have given in to fear. I heard a quote from William Cooper, (this may not be completely accurate) “The truth is, in a town where everyone owns a gun, and everyone else knows it, there is no crime.” You do whatever it takes for your survival, and if you have the right to own a gun, it will greatly increase your chances for survival. However there are things that are much more important, much more powerful weapons to get you through the difficult times ahead, LOVE and POSITIVE THOUGHT being the strongest. You cannot put your faith in physical possessions alone. Also remember the saying “live by the sword, die by the sword”. There is an inherent risk associated with gun ownership, but the military is not your only enemy in a time of chaos. A crazed man will laugh at your chants for love and peace when he is trying to find food to feed his children, but may think twice when he hears the cocking of a shotgun in his face. When you have been forced from your home, you are hungry and roaming in the wilderness and see a nice fat boar or a deer, you would be wishing you had a rifle.

I highly recommend getting a gun as part of a preparation plan, but honestly it is just a useless hunk of metal if you don’t know what to do with it, and yes, it could possibly even get you killed in certain circumstances. You must get informed enough to avoid those circumstances, and understand that it should only be used as a last resort for safety or survival.

[Xmen442002]

I don't believe that they will be able to confiscate the weapons. They will be too busy breaking up riots and trying to restore order if they even obey orders to do so. Remember, it won't be local law enforcement officers conducting martial law. Do you think they are going to sit idle while weapons are taken from them also.
If this scenario plays out on the grand scale, I can guarantee that the majority will not give up their fire arms. Too many people know how important this is to allow this to happen.

Xmen

[MMe M]

Originally Posted by Stinkhorn

If there is martial law, the US gov will collect all firearms by force, look at new orleans, they had lists of gun owners, sought them out and took their weapons.

Are you willing to kill 12 to 30 US soldiers commanded to take your weapons? Are you capable to do so? I am sure if you resisted from your home, they would move in a tank or 2 and level your home. Hell, they could do it from 10 miles away.

Hide your weapons well, they will enter your home by force and take whatever they want. Some soldiers my disent, but the rest will follow orders blindly.

Then I shall die a hero's death in the resistance, better a tank than a gas chamber or worse. Ill take as many as I can with me that would violate the sacred rights of all human beings. Dont think I cant or wont.

[Myplanet2]

I feel America is in a somewhat unique position. A big part of this global drama is being played out there, and it's precisely BECAUSE Americans have maintained their rights to own and bear arms that the game is not already over.

The US military can never disarm America without her consent. That would be the most lopsided battle in history.

Don't be afraid. Don't plan on using your weapons. But don't give them up. Your possession of personal arms in America might be the only thing PREVENTING martial law.

And the PTB have been trying to remove that obstacle for many years.

[Kahunamahalo]

And recently the Supreme Court upheld that law.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Artificial Intelligence

The only thing standing between us and the government is the fact that we have a Constitutional right to own guns. This is most definitely a plus for us.

Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.

[John aka#404]

One of my favorite quotes...

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind - M. Gandhi

[Pinktip]

Luke 22:36 "Sell your cloak to buy a sword"

The most important ammendment to the US constitution is the 2nd.....without it, the others do not matter. Throughout history, gov'ts have feared an armed public.

For survial, have a .22 for food and a 12 ga pump for defense. If you think the gov't is going to knock on your door to confiscate your firearms, make sure they and you are not there. You can't fight the gov't, but you can defend yourself against others....disappear if you can.....02c

[ramallamamama]

Great posts.

After Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc., grabbed all the guns it didn't work out too well for the citizens.

I like the idea of having a gun or two for self defense. Not a big fan of FEMA camps or RFID chips. The Goobermint does not have my best interest at heart.

Caching weapons and ammo is important. My pick would be an AK-47. They always work, no matter what. Ammo for the AK is still relatively cheap, stack it deep. Buy a lot of extra magazines too. Get trained with one. The value of good training could be priceless.