Intrigued, fascinated, shocked...but where is the hard evidence?

[Ruach]

I stumbled across PC a few months back and it literally shocked me with the interviews I watched and read. I've had to come to the realization, if what the whistle blowers on PC are saying is correct, that my world has been literally turned upside down.

However, I consider myself to be a scholar and academic (my schooling taught me this) and I must say that aside from the wonderfully fascinating interviews that are on PC, I don't see much in the way of hard evidence. Evidence meaning, documents, photos, leaked footage, letters, artifacts, etc.

I understand it is not the responsibility for PC to come up with evidence. However, it bugs me, nags me, and pesters me, that nearly all of the whistle blowers on PC don't produce hard evidence of any kind. If you've ever been to another credible site, Wikileaks, you know the type of hard evidence that I'm talking about. The evidence on Wikileaks is free for download by all to analyze, read, and interpret.

I understand a certain element of faith and trust must be involved here but there has to be more than just some guy/gal SAYING something unbelievable. TALKING about some super secret stargate buried in a pyramid or some ancient colony on Mars that has been existing for millenia sounds interesting but I'm not convinced.

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Leunamros]

blurring ufo photos and videos, that´s all the evidence there is..... funny, isnt it?.

Conspiracy theory is about gullibility, like any other religion. as a matter of fact is about connecting dots to make you think there is indeed a conspiracy goin on. It seems, but, Maybe, or maybe not.

It SHOULD be the responsability of Camelot to come up with evidence to back up its claims that this world is so screwed up. However, it fails, as any other website pretending so.


So, in the end, this conspiracy theory trend seems to be a conspiracy in itself: the conspiracy of apathy; they astonish you to make yourself so overwhelmed that you dont move a fingertip to change anything, just devouring the tons and tons of info available on the internet to make you entertained, because that´s the trap for those more "intelligent" than the average, more "awaken", than the average.

They give you the supposed truth that makes you feel as a decent person in this world, even then, you dont even know the reliability of thos supposed truths. The love for truth, truthseeking is a double edged sword.

We are more than just truthseekers. We have an eye we should keep open, more than we ever imagined.

[lightblue]

thera are no proofs
and they are not needed

this isn't a court room

you you disbelieve, just drop your further reading, just like evrything else in life, make your choices..

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Ruach

However, I consider myself to be a scholar and academic (my schooling taught me this) and I must say that aside from the wonderfully fascinating interviews that are on PC, I don't see much in the way of hard evidence. Evidence meaning, documents, photos, leaked footage, letters, artifacts, etc.

I understand it is not the responsibility for PC to come up with evidence. However, it bugs me, nags me, and pesters me, that nearly all of the whistle blowers on PC don't produce hard evidence of any kind. If you've ever been to another credible site, Wikileaks, you know the type of hard evidence that I'm talking about. The evidence on Wikileaks is free for download by all to analyze, read, and interpret.

I understand a certain element of faith and trust must be involved here but there has to be more than just some guy/gal SAYING something unbelievable. TALKING about some super secret stargate buried in a pyramid or some ancient colony on Mars that has been existing for millenia sounds interesting but I'm not convinced.

So, is there any? Where is it? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I don't understand quite what you are asking for. Since Camelot is focused on whistleblower testimony, that's what you are going to get. Testimony. It is pretty much up to you to look at it and decide what to accept. Look at what is going on in the news, observe the trends that are happening (e.g., loss of civil liberties, more and more security cameras). Find out who is getting rich from all the junk going on. Use that academic mind.

My interest has been leaning towards the ET presence, and in that regard I highly recommend the book "Disclosure" by Dr. Steven Greer. Also, the books by Richard Dolan on "UFOs and the National Security State" are excellent. If you want to see UFOs for yourself, hook up with CSETI or ECETI. If your own eyes don't convince you, nothing will. If you want to open your mind to other possibilities, the Dolores Cannon books are excellent. Once you see the same answers coming at you from lots of different directions, a better understanding will start to emerge.

The last thing I would do is rely on Camelot as some sort of infallible information source. The sort of stuff you are asking for, documents, photos, leaked footage, can all be faked. There are also numerous clever story tellers out there. There's a reason it's called truth "seeking".

Oh, and most importantly:

[Leunamros]

Books have no answers at all on what people really are asking to see, books are only moneygetters. And many people are really tired of this conspiracy "world" of no proof at all and then leave and move on to center on other more productive tasks on their lives: one believer less each time.

when "blowerwhistlers" focus on getting money to let us know, that it will help the truth get out there, giving just ridiculous excuses to convince us, i think of them very bad.

And many of them focus on money too much for me to accept. Somehow they dont know how to handle the "truth" well untill you give them money to do so.

It´s easy for the stablishment to label conspiracy theorists as nutcracks as often as they want to. So its like those labeled ones serve a major purpose they aren´t aware of.

[lightblue]

when "blowerwhistles" focus on getting money to let us know, that it will help the truth get out there, giving just ridiculous excuses to convince us, i think of them very bad.

And many of them focus on money too much for me to accept.

if it doesn't ring true to you, just give it a miss..you don't have to read what you don't believe..

nobody is charging you to read Camelot .Nobody is charging you to air your opinion here either. it's all on a take it or leave it basis.

best wishes

[Leunamros]

Originally Posted by lightblue

if it doesn't ring true to you, just give it a miss..you don't have to read what you don't believe..

nobody is charging you to read Camelot .Nobody is charging you to air your opinion here either. it's all on a take it or leave it basis.

best wishes

That´s not what i wanna emphasize. Did you got the point of my message?.

It´s not about mental ringings, that´s for sure....

The world of ringings is another history, im talking about hardcore objetive reality. Not intuition. We have to be careful on how we use our intuition, not to let it cloud our entire mind on it´s behalf. Just be balanced.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Leunamros

Books have no answers at all on what people really are asking to see

Neither do internet forums. I don't know why anyone would waste their time on one.

[Starlah]

Originally Posted by Jnana

Neither do internet forums. I don't know why anyone would waste their time on one.

_______________________________________


Bingo!!
__________________________________________

[orthodoxymoron]

Where is the hard evidence that there are no unidentified flying objects, no extraterrestrials, no spirits, no souls, etc? Someone please tell us gullible folk what's really going on in this world and universe. Inquiring minds want to know. Give it your best shot!

Namaste

[Leunamros]

the absence of evidence, it´s not the evidence of it´s absence, yeah, im aware. But, if you choose either side you are gullible.

From my perspective, humilty is the best answer to our situation in the cosmos. So we can feel better what is goin on.

You know something?, we have to feel ourselves tiny, to perceive the grandeur of what´s around us.

And, the truth be told, we are VEEERY tiny, very tiny.

[Moxie]

Going inward toward infinitely small, tiny.

The numerous whistleblowers and then some hard evidence (such as http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm) is utter evidence (to me)
that we are all mind controlled, THE biggest issue of all.

Valid question your thread. Pertinent, grounding!
I've invested a great deal of time (and money) researching links...
and getting not much of anywhere.... but as I've said before,
it IS entertaining.

[tone3jaguar]

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see"

[Ruach]

Leunamros, I couldn't agree more. It is funny. Reminds me of the Sasquatch myth. The only "proof" we have is a 35mm film video from two guys who supposedly spotted one in California in the 60's.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.

[ewhite]

I think the questions you ask about the lack of "hard" evidence is a normal one. You have to remember where you are though and maybe ask a bit differently.

I have lurked on many different forums on my quest for gnosis and these posts are always generally the same. I would suggest to you my friend that you ask these normal questions during your development in a more thought/ heart filled way. There are many great minds on this forum more so than any other forum like this (which is why I decided to settle in here), many of these members have been working on themselves for years, have studied and read everything we can get our hands on and have meditated on our findings. The "truth" the "hard evidence" is within you. If it does not resonate than it will in time.

The lack of evidence to the contrary of the claims expressed in this forum and others like it, can be viewed as evidence itself. An open and compassionate heart will lead to an open and compassionate mind and that brother is the key.

We have all been indoctrinated our entire lives to believe that the World runs a certain way. Breaking down those barriers provides the path to the evidence you seek. As those barriers fall, more questions will be answered, but even more will be asked.

It is a wonderful journey, I wish you well brother.

[lightblue]

in response to LEUNAMROS

I think, im convinced there is some external intervention here but i can´t figure out it´s nature, that´s all.

You put it you are CONVINCED - how can that be when you insist on hard proof? What's your hard proof that makes you CONVINCED? Just curious...

It´s about that whenever you want to travel around everything that it is, that it seems to be, or that is yet created to be, in my own opinion, you have to use paradoxes as the fuel.

Humans here in this planet are trapped because they need a father to use as an excuse to refuse their own power.

They feel ashamed of what they are: beings more powerful than the more powerful being they have ever imagined.

If you wanna really feel the love the universe has to offer you, let it embrace you, as it has to be bigger than you in your mind. BUT, sadly, you have to see something that convinces you of that, really, you have to see real hardocre evidence, or you will dismiss all of this.

I didnt have found any technique to do this, as it seems there isn´t anyone to do such a thing. I have only realized we are pathetic beings, and that, it all starts from there. From stopping being so sophisticated, and just more human, vulnerable, mortal, lovely, only under those critical conditions.

Again< I am not so sure what point are you trying to make..but if it is about feeling ashamed for beiing human - plese speak for yourself..I certainly don't feel like it..and we don't know about other people..when making general, sweeping statements just do so in your own name..

best wishes

[Leunamros]

i insist on asking for hard proof, and im not ashamed on being convinced there seems to be external intervention... that´s my part on being gullible.

At least, it seems, after profound study on how the humans are, under my opinion, i think there are external influences, or, there are humans that know, light years ahead of you all, what we are, and use that to persuade all of you to believe you are an slave inside a matrix of control.

PERSUADE.


You are now hosts of a body, so astonishing, you could die of it; death by astonishment, sounds cool, isn´t it?..

[lightblue]

At least, it seems, after profound study on how the humans are, under my opinion, i think there are external influences, or, there are humans that know, light years ahead of you all, what we are, and use that to persuade all of you to believe you are an slave inside a matrix of control.

do you not count yourself as one of us?

[Leunamros]

Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know. I feel convinced because my heart tells me so, but.... that´s not entirely valid, you know; it´s just the 50%.

I ask for the other 50%, what the hell.

[lightblue]

Im just talking objetively. You can ask in a clearer way about what you wanna know.

it's probably best for me to pull out of this excnhange..I fail to understand what are you objective about ..

all the best in you quest, whatever it may be

[Leunamros]

Originally Posted by lightblue

it's probably best for me to pull out of this excnhange..I fail to understand what are you objective about ..

all the best in you quest, whatever it may be

im open to any questions about me, no problem man. Hope you are not rude doing so...

[Agape]

But ETs still exist despite all the arguments above, why not ask them to provide us with some hard core proofs and why they don't do it..

Is it maybe that those who've seen them do not require more proofs

There's lots of people who have seen 'something ' already, few who had seen solid object and are 100% sure it was not of earthly origin.

Some of those who are 'abuctees' too would tell you that what they had seen was very solid and real.

It's not easy to believe it all without own experience. I was very skeptical towards this subject , especially as it carried huge stigma of insanity ,
before I knew and had seen it's real .

It's transcending our reality and not always fitting to it as we 'd need, many ways..

Ufologists can be fooled too but most I've observed are hard core skeptics .

The difficulty as I can percieve it is that we'd need to deploy the best of our human capacities to do more research in to the phenomenon of ET contact.

Love and respect

A

[Jnana]

All I have is the evidence of my eyes. I know what I saw. Other people have seen the same things with me. Some of these things have been captured on video. There is a DVD with Greer's new book "Contact - Countdown to Transformation". I was present for one of the sightings on that DVD. I'll be the first to say that if you are of a skeptical bent, then these videos won't be convincing to you. Video just doesn't capture the full impact of the first hand experience.

If you have seen such things first hand, if you have seen an intelligent reaction to your thoughts manifested as a display in the sky, sometimes rather close up, below cloud cover, then it makes a major impact. I have a history of such sightings, where the intelligence I am interacting with shows a memory of past interactions. Do I absolutely know who or what it is making these displays? No. But, I'm darned sure they're not from around here, and I am in telepathic contact with them. 99.99999999....% of the universe is extraterrestrial, so I don't have a hard time with the concept that something could be of extraterrestrial origins. Call it interdimensional if you like, it's still not from around here.

I've studied T. Townsend Brown enough to know that our understanding of physics is incomplete and field propulsion is indeed possible. Plus, I've seen what those guys can do up there. That's some hot piloting. I've looked at various esoteric energy device and recognized common threads in the ones that work, enough to convince myself there is something to it. You can't just look at one video, or one observation of something weird. Like many things it's a matter of fitting puzzle pieces together and only keeping the parts that fit.

Once you begin to understand what they are capable of, then some of the more far out parts of certain experiences, like passing through walls, can be recognized as just a capability of a very advanced technological race with high intelligence and a higher level of consciousness.

I've met a number of people who have seen much, much more than I have. Because of my own experiences and my impression of what kind of people they are, I'm inclined to believe them.

I don't offer proof, only my opinion that there are ETs visiting the earth, and the one's I'm familiar with are very generous about showing up when I ask. They've even shown up to cheer my up when I'm down. Make of it what you will. You can see for yourself if you are sufficiently motivated to seek the experience.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

His books and websites do contain some of the things you are asking for - documents, memos, photos, videos. I would say these constitute evidence, not "proof". Even in science, a theory is not "proven". Experimental evidence is accumulated and a theory is eventually accepted or not, but it is an inductive process and there is no such thing as absolute certainty.

If you want to look into a case which is rather well documented, I highly recommend looking into the Phoenix Lights. Decent photos, credible investigator (Dr. Lynn Kitei), lots of corroboration. One thing to remember is that if even one of thousands of documented UFO cases is true, then they exist and they can get here.

[mandroid]

Originally Posted by Ruach

Leunamros, I couldn't agree more. It is funny. Reminds me of the Sasquatch myth. The only "proof" we have is a 35mm film video from two guys who supposedly spotted one in California in the 60's.

On a different note, Steven Greer is a good starting point for evidence but again, his "proof" consists of "expert testimonies." Again, more supposedly credible people SAYING unbelievable things. Where are the documents, photos, memos, etc. Steven?

I am making a point here. Let me be clear that I'm not the guy who still wouldn't believe even if an ET walked up to him and shook his hand. I'm not looking for every possible reason TO NOT believe. However, I'm also not looking for every possible reason TO believe either. I'm trying to keep my biases out of my research and want to concern myself with evidence only.

Trust me, this is something that the UFO/ET community needs more of because it can be turned into a "religion" of sorts. People blindly and whole-hardheartedly "believe" and have "faith" because they want to believe and nothing will change their minds. There isn't anything wrong with having "faith," I have faith. But this topic demands evidence of some sort and there should, I might point out, be A TON of it available if what the thousands of whistle blowers, government officials, etc. are saying is true. On a side note, 9/11 was clearly not what the government told us, there IS an enormous amount of hard irrefutable evidence directly contradicting what the commission members told us.

My hope here is to get others to think about what they believe in and why they believe it AND offer up evidence other than blind faith.

hello rauch,i guess the only way you will get any hard evidence is if you see something undeniable yourself,for someone to have an experience is the only way they would really believe these things.the cia and other factions are
extremely good at disinfo/covering up ect..although i would have thought myself some undisputeable evidence should have turned up by now....

i have seen ufo craft close up on two occasions,thats why i found my way to this forum,if i had not had any experiences,then i would probably not
be interested in ufos e.c.t at all,or would probably be asking for more proof as you yourself are.


bottom line, you know things arn,t right in the world ,thats why your here looking for possible answers...

a.

[Ruach]

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts. Again, my goal is to think critically about this issue and to analyze it at every angle however hard it may be. Let me also say that I do not, under any circumstances, discount anyone's experiences related to UFO/ET phenomena. I myself have seen a UFO. I'm just trying to get at the root, I suppose, of the "how" and the "why" we all believe what we believe.

The skeptics will always be skeptical, the believers will always believe. But for the rest of us in the middle, we continue to discriminate, research, learn, and explore this subject without bias or assumptions.