Internet ad tracking to put spy camera in millions of homes!

Jacqui D · 03-11-2009, 10:55 PM

How do you feel about your privacy being invaded another BIG BROTHER tactic or would it be a good idea to track the more seedy side to internet browsing!

Internet ad tracking system will put a 'spy camera' in the homes of millions, warns founder of the web
By Sean Poulter
Last updated at 7:19 PM on 11th March 2009

Comments (-) Add to My Stories
The British inventor of the internet has launched a damning attack on plans by BT and other communications firms to spy on the web-surfing habits of up to 11million households.
Sir Tim Berners-Lee said he is 'embarrassed' to be British because this country - unlike the USA - has failed to block the 'Big Brother' move.
He warned the proposals are far more sinister than intercepting letters or tapping telephone conversations.
And he suggested the technology was even worse than allowing companies to install TV cameras in the homes of the nation to snoop on how people live their lives.
BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media are all considering launching a system known as Phorm, which would track the internet pages that their 11m customers look at.
Web founder Sir Tim Berners-Lee believes the entire integrity of the internet is at risk with BT and other communications firms considering plans to spy on the web-surfing habits of up to 11million households

The system creates an anonymous profile of a surfer's interests which is then used by retailers and others to target them with relevant adverts.
The technology is potentially lucrative for the internet firms and website operators who are vying to grab slice of a global internet advertising market worth £28billion a year.
However, Sir Tim said the snooping risks destroying the public's trust in the internet and called for new legal controls.
He said: 'We had laws to deal with highwaymen... When the Royal Mail was instituted there were rules that you were not allowed to interfere with Her Majesty's mail, similarly there are rules that you are not allowed to snoop on people's telephone conversations.
'Those same protections must apply to the internet. We must not snoop through the internet.'
The technical term for monitoring the details of individual's web surfing is 'Deep Packet Inspection'.
Sir Tim said this kind of activity provides unprecedented information on an individual.
'It reveals huge amounts about people's lives, their loves, their hates and fears. People use the web when they are in a crisis.
'It is very important that you can use the internet without a thought that, when we click, a third party will know what we clicked on in a way that might effect how our insurance premium changes, whether we can get life insurance or another job.'
He said: 'To allow somebody to snoop on your internet traffic is like allowing a company to put a television camera in your room, except that it will tell them a whole lot more.
'I feel that the act of using the internet is something that we must be allowed to do without any interference or snooping.'
Sir Tim said: 'Once information is collected it can be used later either by the company or an insider.
'It might be information about the browsing record of a Member of Parliament, it might be used by a foreign power to attack Britain by finding key people, finding out what they have been doing and blackmailing them.
'There are all sorts of nasty things that might happen. Even a sexual predator might be able to use it to stalk a victim in incredible detail.'
Sir Tim described firms that want to develop and use the technology as the 'villains in the middle of the network'.
He said: 'I am embarrassed as a British citizen that this is happening while the US has drawn a very firm line to stop this.'
The internet guru was speaking at a Houses of Parliament event attended by MPs and peers who are considering what if any changes to privacy laws are needed.
The comments will heap pressure on BT, Virgin and Talk Talk to abandon plans to adopt the Phorm system.
Dame Wendy Hall, professor of computer science at University of Southampton, told the meeting: 'Snooping on the internet is akin to opening our private letters.
'Monitoring our conversations on the internet, through social network and other sites, is akin to tapping our telephones.
'This is about who we are and what is private to us in the digital era. Governments need to think about protecting that.'
BT has conducted three customer trials with the Phorm system, including secretly profiling the web browsing of thousands of its customers in 2006.
The 'stealth' pilot was carried out without the consent of the customers so may have been illegal under EU law.
Phorm insists it is far less intrusive than the existing tracking and profiling of surfers that is carried out by internet search engines like Yahoo and Google.
It says there is nothing to link a name or address to the profile. At the same time, there is no database of users that is sold to advertisers. Customers can also choose to opt out.
Phorm's chief executive Kent Ertugrul(correct) rejected the attacks as neo-Luddite and claimed that Sir Tim and other critics do not understand how the technology works.
Mr Ertugrul said: 'There have been suggestions that something dark and evil has been deployed that gathers up what everybody is doing. But that is exactly how our system does not work.
'We have created something that reconciles the need for privacy... and the need for commerce.'
Mr Ertugrul said his technology would allow websites to become commercially viable through offering targeted advertising.
Phorm insists its system is far more secure than existing tracking through popular web browsers.
Mr Ertugrul said: 'I agree there is a problem with privacy today. But the answer is not to go into a sort of neo-Luddite retrenchment but to create a technological fix for the problems that exist. That is what we believe we have done.'

Steve_A · 03-11-2009, 11:14 PM

Hi Jacqui D,

There is absolutely nothing new in this idea, except for the fact that it is electronically done.

It's called Household Marketing.

The simplest form is when many small shop keepers keep records of their clients to inform them of new items that have come in to the shop, or to wish them happy birthday to remind them that they exist.

But in the more complex world, everything you do as a consumer is stored in data banks being sold by marketing companies. Each time you use your credit card, every time you enter in a competition at your local supermarket or take advantage of that offer by that famous brand name you like so much where you have to send them a witty slogan.

They record your name, your address, postal code, telephone number, even what you purchase was.

Even if a family member enters in a competition in a competitors supermarket or takes advantage of that offer where they have to fill in a coupon, everything is noted.

Then the serious marketers who buy this information can cross reference and get a pretty good idea of you and your family (how many family members, their ages, names, een you most recent purchases etc.) simply by referencing things like your postal code, your surname, or other information that they deem interesting.

That's why we get special offers popping through the door from time to time.

They know which neighbourhood you're from, more or less how much the family income is, if you have a car etc.

It can get quite complex, depending on how much these companies are willing to spend for the information and their need for the information.

It's been going on for years, so don't worry and njoy the show!

Best regards,

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacqui D

How do you feel about your privacy being invaded another BIG BROTHER tactic or would it be a good idea to track the more seedy side to internet browsing!

Internet ad tracking system will put a 'spy camera' in the homes of millions, warns founder of the web
By Sean Poulter
Last updated at 7:19 PM on 11th March 2009

Comments (-) Add to My Stories
The British inventor of the internet has launched a damning attack on plans by BT and other communications firms to spy on the web-surfing habits of up to 11million households.

Jacqui D · 03-11-2009, 11:45 PM

Hi Steve this is more than just a marketing tactic, they are going to actually look into your movements on the net, they will be able to see what your surfing, buying i guess and private mail.
This for me is nothing more than spying on individuals, soon your most private messages will not even be safe.
I'm all for keeping the more seedy sites clamped down but this is taking it to far!

Anchor · 03-12-2009, 12:22 AM

Encryption will be the best answer to those affected - its so hard to do this consistently though, but if many people start to need it, then a solution will be found.

A bit like when you use https to access this site instead of http.

A..

Steve_A · 03-12-2009, 12:24 AM

Hi Jacqui D,

Once again, this is nothing new.

Google 'cookies' then 'keyloggers', 'site trackers'.

My site can identify visitors (by their IP address), I can identify e-mail addresses, I know when someone receives a message, when they open the e-mail, their geographical location etc. etc. the really long list goes on....

It already makes up part of internet marketing. What they want to do in this case is mix the two so they can reach you in both virtual and real worlds.

Best regards,

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacqui D

Hi Steve this is more than just a marketing tactic, they are going to actually look into your movements on the net, they will be able to see what your surfing, buying i guess and private mail.
This for me is nothing more than spying on individuals, soon your most private messages will not even be safe.
I'm all for keeping the more seedy sites clamped down but this is taking it to far!

Czymra · 03-12-2009, 02:21 PM

Yes, I agree. This is already there. The question is just how the information is then circulated to create global profiles of your behaviour. It's a legal privacy issue that it seems, can only be fought for in the courts but never really enforced.

P.S.: I think we should open a thread that teaches people how to be anonymous and deactivate their webcams etc. I'm rather concerned myself. I know proxy surfing is possible but without paying somebody for the proxy it seems to be a real pain in speed just for the sake of 'anonymity'.

03-11-2009, 10:55 PM	#1
Jacqui D Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent,England Posts: 1,267	Internet ad tracking to put spy camera in millions of homes! How do you feel about your privacy being invaded another BIG BROTHER tactic or would it be a good idea to track the more seedy side to internet browsing! Internet ad tracking system will put a 'spy camera' in the homes of millions, warns founder of the web By Sean Poulter Last updated at 7:19 PM on 11th March 2009 Comments (-) Add to My Stories The British inventor of the internet has launched a damning attack on plans by BT and other communications firms to spy on the web-surfing habits of up to 11million households. Sir Tim Berners-Lee said he is 'embarrassed' to be British because this country - unlike the USA - has failed to block the 'Big Brother' move. He warned the proposals are far more sinister than intercepting letters or tapping telephone conversations. And he suggested the technology was even worse than allowing companies to install TV cameras in the homes of the nation to snoop on how people live their lives. BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media are all considering launching a system known as Phorm, which would track the internet pages that their 11m customers look at. Web founder Sir Tim Berners-Lee believes the entire integrity of the internet is at risk with BT and other communications firms considering plans to spy on the web-surfing habits of up to 11million households The system creates an anonymous profile of a surfer's interests which is then used by retailers and others to target them with relevant adverts. The technology is potentially lucrative for the internet firms and website operators who are vying to grab slice of a global internet advertising market worth £28billion a year. However, Sir Tim said the snooping risks destroying the public's trust in the internet and called for new legal controls. He said: 'We had laws to deal with highwaymen... When the Royal Mail was instituted there were rules that you were not allowed to interfere with Her Majesty's mail, similarly there are rules that you are not allowed to snoop on people's telephone conversations. 'Those same protections must apply to the internet. We must not snoop through the internet.' The technical term for monitoring the details of individual's web surfing is 'Deep Packet Inspection'. Sir Tim said this kind of activity provides unprecedented information on an individual. 'It reveals huge amounts about people's lives, their loves, their hates and fears. People use the web when they are in a crisis. 'It is very important that you can use the internet without a thought that, when we click, a third party will know what we clicked on in a way that might effect how our insurance premium changes, whether we can get life insurance or another job.' He said: 'To allow somebody to snoop on your internet traffic is like allowing a company to put a television camera in your room, except that it will tell them a whole lot more. 'I feel that the act of using the internet is something that we must be allowed to do without any interference or snooping.' Sir Tim said: 'Once information is collected it can be used later either by the company or an insider. 'It might be information about the browsing record of a Member of Parliament, it might be used by a foreign power to attack Britain by finding key people, finding out what they have been doing and blackmailing them. 'There are all sorts of nasty things that might happen. Even a sexual predator might be able to use it to stalk a victim in incredible detail.' Sir Tim described firms that want to develop and use the technology as the 'villains in the middle of the network'. He said: 'I am embarrassed as a British citizen that this is happening while the US has drawn a very firm line to stop this.' The internet guru was speaking at a Houses of Parliament event attended by MPs and peers who are considering what if any changes to privacy laws are needed. The comments will heap pressure on BT, Virgin and Talk Talk to abandon plans to adopt the Phorm system. Dame Wendy Hall, professor of computer science at University of Southampton, told the meeting: 'Snooping on the internet is akin to opening our private letters. 'Monitoring our conversations on the internet, through social network and other sites, is akin to tapping our telephones. 'This is about who we are and what is private to us in the digital era. Governments need to think about protecting that.' BT has conducted three customer trials with the Phorm system, including secretly profiling the web browsing of thousands of its customers in 2006. The 'stealth' pilot was carried out without the consent of the customers so may have been illegal under EU law. Phorm insists it is far less intrusive than the existing tracking and profiling of surfers that is carried out by internet search engines like Yahoo and Google. It says there is nothing to link a name or address to the profile. At the same time, there is no database of users that is sold to advertisers. Customers can also choose to opt out. Phorm's chief executive Kent Ertugrul(correct) rejected the attacks as neo-Luddite and claimed that Sir Tim and other critics do not understand how the technology works. Mr Ertugrul said: 'There have been suggestions that something dark and evil has been deployed that gathers up what everybody is doing. But that is exactly how our system does not work. 'We have created something that reconciles the need for privacy... and the need for commerce.' Mr Ertugrul said his technology would allow websites to become commercially viable through offering targeted advertising. Phorm insists its system is far more secure than existing tracking through popular web browsers. Mr Ertugrul said: 'I agree there is a problem with privacy today. But the answer is not to go into a sort of neo-Luddite retrenchment but to create a technological fix for the problems that exist. That is what we believe we have done.'

03-11-2009, 11:45 PM	#3
Jacqui D Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent,England Posts: 1,267	Re: Internet ad tracking to put spy camera in millions of homes! Hi Steve this is more than just a marketing tactic, they are going to actually look into your movements on the net, they will be able to see what your surfing, buying i guess and private mail. This for me is nothing more than spying on individuals, soon your most private messages will not even be safe. I'm all for keeping the more seedy sites clamped down but this is taking it to far!

03-12-2009, 12:22 AM	#4
Anchor Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 2,280	Re: Internet ad tracking to put spy camera in millions of homes! Encryption will be the best answer to those affected - its so hard to do this consistently though, but if many people start to need it, then a solution will be found. A bit like when you use https to access this site instead of http. A..

03-12-2009, 02:21 PM	#6
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Internet ad tracking to put spy camera in millions of homes! Yes, I agree. This is already there. The question is just how the information is then circulated to create global profiles of your behaviour. It's a legal privacy issue that it seems, can only be fought for in the courts but never really enforced. P.S.: I think we should open a thread that teaches people how to be anonymous and deactivate their webcams etc. I'm rather concerned myself. I know proxy surfing is possible but without paying somebody for the proxy it seems to be a real pain in speed just for the sake of 'anonymity'. Last edited by Czymra; 03-12-2009 at 02:23 PM.