Gun Protection

Originally I thought the same thing. But this Martial Law Survival Guide I've got really convinced me that having a gun will be worthless against trained, martial law officers. You might get one or two, but probably not, and what good would that really do in the large scheme.

If a resistance were to develop, plenty of guns would be available, but otherwise they are going to be useless. You'll have 2 or 3 days to turn in your guns, and if you don't and they are found, you'll be killed. I know we all like to think of ourselves as Rambo, but it is just fantasy to believe that 1 person with a shotgun or AK is going to beat back the gov't.

If a martial law scenario comes, you do not want a gun.

I tried to upload the document I referenced but it is 350kb and the site only allows very small uploads.

Originally Posted by monotony

Originally I thought the same thing. But this Martial Law Survival Guide I've got really convinced me that having a gun will be worthless against trained, martial law officers. You might get one or two, but probably not, and what good would that really do in the large scheme.

If a resistance were to develop, plenty of guns would be available, but otherwise they are going to be useless. You'll have 2 or 3 days to turn in your guns, and if you don't and they are found, you'll be killed. I know we all like to think of ourselves as Rambo, but it is just fantasy to believe that 1 person with a shotgun or AK is going to beat back the gov't.

If a martial law scenario comes, you do not want a gun.

I tried to upload the document I referenced but it is 350kb and the site only allows very small uploads.

Yes

You won't beat back the government and will likely die
trying. But that, my friend, is the point. When they come
for you, unless you are not there you will die anyway.
Do not go quietly! Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his Gulag Archipelago warns us not to go quietly. Do not make it
easy. It will give them pause if you take up whatever at
hand and attempt to rearrange their outlook with it. It is intimidating when the victim refuses to cooperate. This cannot be overstated. You may be lost, so do it for your children, your neighbors, and your countrymen. Do it for them. If you are lost anyway, go with a bang rather than a whimper. A free man may be killed, but not subjugated.


We have done research on this topic. Read about the
resistance in World War II. Read about the forest Jews
of Germany and the magnificent Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
It brings a tear just thinking about it. Done properly you
will inspire those who follow. We remember Sophie Scholl and Masha Bruskina. Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya
shouted, "You can't hang all 190 million of us," just before
she died! We remember them. Who remembers their
executioners!

The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But if
you are there, make it a memorable occasion.

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Yes

You won't beat back the government and will likely die
trying. But that, my friend, is the point. When they come
for you, unless you are not there you will die anyway.
Do not go quietly! Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his Gulag Archipelago warns us not to go quietly. Do not make it
easy. It will give them pause if you take up whatever at
hand and attempt to rearrange their outlook with it. It is intimidating when the victim refuses to cooperate. This cannot be understated. You may be lost, so do it for your children, your neighbors, and your countrymen. Do it for them. If you are lost anyway, go with a bang rather than a whimper. A free man may be killed, but not subjugated.


We have done research on this topic. Read about the
resistance in World War II. Read about the forest Jews
of Germany and the magnificent Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
It brings a tear just thinking about it. Done properly you
will inspire those who follow. We remember Sophie Scholl and Masha Bruskina. Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya
shouted, "You can't hang all 190 million of us," just before
she died! We remember them. Who remembers their
executioners!

The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But if
you are there, make it a memorable occasion.

I really love your sentiment and spirit! I completely understand and respect this point of view. But in my case, firing guns and killing a few people here and there I don't believe will change anything. My plan of attack will be to continue to raise my own consciousness and encourage and organize others around me to do the same.

If you've heard David Wilcock's "Science of Peace" or are familiar with the Trancendental Meditation studies or many other studies done in the past, violence declines SHARPLY when groups of people get together and meditate on peace. Imagine if we could organize millions of people to commit to doing that every day for even 10 minutes. It is possible with the internet and on sites like this with a more awakened visitor than most.

In any case, I support whatever anyone wants to do to resist and more importantly than anything is that we are unified as the future approaches. Be well all!

Blessings,
Jeff

[Equalitor]

It is fun to see all the different views on this

Monotony: The opinion from the survival guide of yours I do not like, looking like it's influenced by some government funded money. Removing guns from civilians would seem to serve their interests, and it probably would. But all the millions of patriots that would defend their country with their guns, if they were at war? It's a free underground army!
Having a natural disaster situation would be worse, with more helpless people killing others.
It would serve you and not be a danger for anyone if you lived far from everyone else under a crisis. If you have to defend [not against the army of course], you have at least tried to avoid it! And after that it is up to you to help build a new world.
________________________________________________

What I tried to say in the last post is that a gun is just another tool for aquiring food, like a fishing rod really! At least they don't take those..
But everyone sees guns as evil tools now because they have been misused in terrible wars and for murders. We all need food in dark times, and when there's plenty of food living in the woods you would not harvest the nature as we have always done? Is there a big difference of hunting it with rifle or bow [the rifle being the best shot of course], and eating a self-slaughtered deer or shopping it at the mall?

If some are die-hard vegitarians I would understand their choice, but it will not help them survive a long crisis, making their bodies weak too [losing B12 + more] over the years being selective about food.
I tried to live as a vegitarian once, it did not work well since it takes much skill and info to do it the "right" way and me being a quite helpless young cook I actually REALLY love the idea that no living life should be exploited as food or in other ways, but the world have not come far enough.. Improving rights for all and especially fur animals are extremely important though.

May Peace last, as fragile as it is

[Excalibur]

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" as they say.

I don't think the martial law scenario would play out in the US. That may be a bullet point (no pun intended there ) on the master plan, but I think impractical to implement. I bet they would encounter fierce resistance/guerrilla style war if they tried and abandon that approach rather quickly. Best they could do, would be to 'quarantine' certain areas to prevent mass movement of people as discussed in other threads. I think most of the rank and file would simply desert and return home in that scenario to protect their own families, rather than spilling the blood of their countrymen. I believe the majority of the US military would not follow unlawful orders to confiscate firearms and detain civilians, which would be treasonous in my view. The courts have indicated the New Orleans PD overstepped their authority during Katrina in those confiscations which violated both federal and state constitutions, and agreed to return the firearms (http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=gunreturn) alot of help that is when your only form of self defence is removed, but it is important to note the precedent has been established, and that scenario should not repeat itself. I also believe various elements within the US military would not stand for a martial law scenario, leading to infighting within their own ranks.

[Lt Ripley]

Hey everyone,

I was pondering the same dilemma myself just recently.

I, like many of my country men and women, would be aware that there were massive gun control measures put in place in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre, ie Martin Bryant.

There seems to be a pile of evidence to suggest that Bryant, in fact, was not the shooter on the scene. There have been many discrepancies in the accounts of the survivors and various witnesses and there are many small but important details that just blow away the entire Bryant official story as put out by the media.

My point here is that I see the entire Bryant episode as a catalyst to remove guns/weapons from the general public, leaving the majority of Australians unarmed and defenseless. I see it as being a deliberate ploy by the government at that time and the Port Arthur massacre (IMO) is definitely not without an alternative agenda.

My sincere condolences to anyone reading who was affected by the Port Arthur incident and please rest assured I do not mean to offend or desecrate the memories of all loved ones who died that day.

For a very informative article regarding the Port Arthur massacre and the trail of suss evidence, have a look at the following link:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.p...d=27&Itemid=71

There are 3 parts of the article, all of which are available for viewing on the Nexus Magazine website.

[Uncle Fester]

If you want to know what owning a gun is like during martial law, watch this video of what happened during Katrina

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

I've often pondered what I will do faced with this situation.

Die on my feet, or live on my knees.

[recallone]

Concerning the implementation of martial law, I think there are some glaringly evident points that aren't being considered. The PTB are trying desperately to maintain their control of the masses, and many of us call them pitiful and are assured of our eventual victory as their plans fail. But lets not underestimate them. They had to have taken into account that American soldiers would have a hard time locking up and killing their own countrymen. That's why there are UN troops already here. If they specifically employ a military force that doesn't even speak the language (in many cases), they can tell their soldiers any number of things that will make their task easier to stomach - and most of them won't be able to even have a conversation with the people they're imposing that rule upon. Furthermore, all means of communication will have been taken over. That means that those soldiers won't even have the opportunity to converse with their family members, clergymen, whoever they look to for truth. That means our guys possibly in another country conducting similar operations, again - not even speaking the language of the land that they're occupying. An all-out resistance movement would be futile, I think. .22s against tanks and body-armored troops?
I feel that firearms are important, but not as a stay-in-the-city scenario. I think it's commonly acknowledged that a disruption in food supply would make things in the city pretty hairy in short order. That's why I want to get as far away from it as possible.
They'll have their hands full with whatever city they're trying to dominate. Small groups in the sticks are going to be small potatoes and clearly more challenging to take control of. IMHO, that is.
Peace and light, brothers and sisters.

[Equalitor]

Personally I prefer a much larger caliber, that can take anything living, without destroying it totally. Either the Nato 7.62/308 Win, or the 30-06. Both have acceptable recoil, prize and size. Expanding rounds for everything bigger than a small deer or so, and solid for small prey, to save more meat, more food.
.22 can take out deer with headshot if you are a d**n good sniper, but never go for their head. They starve painfully to death without their jaw Rather the neck.

[arcora]

I'm in SC.

Everyone here has a gun. I think they hand them out for free at the rest stop when you enter the state.

But seriously....

Here, most people own at least one gun. There is no registration for residents. One can walk into any licensed store and purchase a handgun and ammo and take posession immediately.

Furthermore, concealed weapon permits are considered to be a right, not a privelege. The law here says the Sheriff MUST give one to anyone who applies and meets the basic criteria (ie: pass a background check and complete a gun safety course).

Any time one is out in public in SC it is likely that there are armed strangers around. Believe it or not, it is a comforting thought. I feel better knowing that some crazed lunatic has to think twice here about going on some sort of a rampage. There are dozens of good citizens around who are always armed and dangerous.

That being said.

I am certain that if and when martial law is declared, the PTB will arrive and confiscate all of the guns. Also, I think that during martial law it will be either a serious felony (think concentration camp) or worse (think deadly force) if a citizen is caught with a gun in their posession.

Guns are a non-issue because they will be confiscated from everyone who doesn't want to die.

[Orion Morris]

I live in the middle of Wyoming, where 90% of the people have much more than one gun. In fact, you are allowed to just walk around with your gun on your hip, if you have one of the easy to obtain liscences. If there ever was marshall law, which I believe couldnt happen because it would be our brothers and sisters who joined the armed foreces who come to inforce such a thing. The simple people who work for the government are not going to physically take over the entire country that they themselves grew up in. What would be a real concern is if their was ever a food shortage for thousands of reasons; financial collapse, increased security, war, the honey bee's, just to name a few. Then all these people with guns would use them to rob their neighbors. Starving families would probably go rob their rich morman neighbor who has a bunch of food in his basement before they would ever let themselves starve. The only way around it, or the best idea I have, would be just to take off the the mountans and try to live off the land. Either way I woldnt recommend trying to survive around a whole village of starving desperate rednecks and gangsters with guns. We are going to have to come togeather as one and put our guns down.

LOVE

[Kahunamahalo]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.

There is a reason America has not been invaded and occupied. Can Europe say the same? I am not a gun owner but I stand by the people that do own them and will fight for their right to do so.

Jerry

[Captain Obvious]

Interesting topic, theorising (is that a word?) a scenario that might or might not happen. Nobody really knows what is gonna happen, guess that's the bottom line.

On this forum, even though there are more advanced incarnations here than in many other settings, spirits are on different levels. And in another setting, the regular joe, I THINK (theory), is more likely to panic, and be in a state of survival that will be of the dark polarity - me, me, me, at any cost.

Sometimes I end my participation in certain situations, and that's MY appropiate response to that situation. Other times I equally muster up what is thrown at me. I think of myself as friendly, but I'm not afraid of defending myself.

Now. I don't have a gun, and I don't plan to get one. Too lazy, too much hassle, but I'm sure I could find something to use for defensive measures if I felt the need.

I think if there is something to be learnt about dark domination such as wars etc, the dark doesn't give a sod about any fluffy words and.. love. I mean, really? If anything, I think it's percieved as weakness and an easy prey.

As for they who refuse to defend themselves in such a weird event, that's their experience and way of doing things, and I'm glad there are different roads to choose, to progress at our chosen tempo. I like it that way.

Worst case scenario, exit earth, enter astral and beyond. I (not the body) can live with that. :-) I don't know how I'll handle unknown scenarios, but as of now, I don't feel fear about this subject, and I think I'll be just fine whatever happens.

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

Please remember america is not the world. Here in the UK, we seem to have done pretty good without any of us owning guns.

"pretty good"? LOL WOW, check your violent crime statistics there bloke.

Violent crime in the UK has skyrocketed since your masters saw fit to disarm you.

I feel sorry for ya....honestly.

[sjkted]

Has anyone read Patriots: Surviving The Upcoming Collapse? When martial law is declared, I'll be more concerned about the looters than the government.

[Adarajones]

Originally Posted by sjkted

Has anyone read Patriots: Surviving The Upcoming Collapse? When martial law is declared, I'll be more concerned about the looters than the government.

Yes, you are absolutely right!, this is why WE MUST AVOID big cities at all costs!. At the first sign of trouble get out of dodge!.

When all hell breaks loose, and after a short period of time there is no more food to buy anywhere, no medicines, no gas, and your neighbor sees that at the end of the street, there is someone with a generator, food and supplies (meaning 'you' because your prepared ahead of time) guess what is going to happen to you, THE BROTHERLY LOVE GOES OUT THE WINDOW, people panic!. This why we need to have a PLAN. Don't wait until is too late!!.

From the Heart!

[strayslack]

One look at my avatar (is that the correct term?) and you can plainly see where I fall on this issue. Don't get me wrong, I loathe the redneck machismo attitude that often comes along with gun rights - the "cold dead fingers" rhetoric. But let me make myself very clear. If it comes down to it, and the PTB do what many of us think they are capable of doing, I will protect myself and my family. If there are 20 of them, and the odds are against me, SO BE IT. I will not go to the trains. I will not give up my protection. Period.
If they try to find my weapons, they will not find them. If a situation arises where I need to have my weapons on my person, then they will not find ME.
If you choose to give up without a fight then that is your right as a human being, but those who have fought for the freedom of the human spirit throughout history will be rolling over in their graves.

I own guns for these reason, in this order.
1. For hunting for food. This will be imperative in the sort of environment societal chaos would bring.
2. For personal protection against individuals who would seek to take from me during such a crisis. I would NEVER advocate the taking of a human life except for self defense, and someone stealing my children's sustenance is one of those cases.
3. For protection against those who would seek to round up me and my family.

The bottom line is that it's time, folks. It's time to stand up for what you believe, and if you die in the process, then SO BE IT. Many of us believe that what comes next is better. Live that premise.
You cannot "spread love" from your grave.

[mortalcoil]

I honestly believe if anyone wants an acurate depection of what life will be like after the collapse they should look no further than the Argentine collapse of 2001. A man by the name of FerFal has posted numerous observations from living day to day in the 3rd world.

His views on the inportance of handguns and personal protection are the best I've ever read. This is not from speculation or from some far away battlefield but what he has to deal with every day.

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...1;t=044387;p=0

http://www.ferfal.blogspot.com/

[Equalitor]

You are absolutely right Strayslack [or Mr. Glock], we can not and should not live without at least one firearm! Food and defense will be extremely important in a situation we would never imagine.
Please take a look at our survival group here at Avalon; The Darkside of the Moon: www.projectavalon.net/forum/group.php?groupid=9

Without guns in a crisis:
= No relevant chance to defend, even if it is only scaring others away
= No relevant chance to hunt food of all sorts
= No relevant chance to feed yourselves or family in lasting crisis
= No relevant chance to live outside civilisation
= No relevant chance to uphold life
= No relevant chance to spread the word and let people wake up
= No relevant chance to see what the world will become afterwards

If you are placed in a prison camp there will be plenty of such chances, but take your precautions never to get there!

It's never to late to start with guns training folks. I never thought of guns in the first place either. Tools are here for your use.