Copernicus' Remains Found!

[Dantheman62]

WARSAW, Poland – Researchers believe they have identified the remains of Nicolaus Copernicus by comparing DNA from a skeleton they have found with that of hair retrieved from one of the 16th-century astronomer's books.

Jerzy Gassowski, an academic at an archaeology school in Poland, also says facial reconstruction of the skull his team found buried in a cathedral in Poland closely resembles existing portraits of Copernicus, whose theories identified the Sun, not the Earth, as the center of the universe.

Gassowski and Marie Allen, a Swedish DNA expert, told reporters about their findings in Warsaw on Thursday.

Allen said DNA from the bones and teeth matches that of hair found in a book the Polish astronomer owned. It is in a library at Sweden's Uppsala University.

[King Lear]

So far so good...


But Copernicus (orig. Koppernigk) was a GERMAN astronomer!!!
Born in the GERMAN city Thorn and died in the GERMAN city Frauenburg.

Don't believe in Polish sources in this issue, because they never will admit that Copernicus indeed was an ethnical German.
Since 1945 they try to Polonize him.

[keria13]

Sure and we have done world war 2. If You dont know history then stop saying stuff about Poland You dont know. And the city was called Torun. Poland was occupied many times by German and Russians,

So maybe by your thinking everybody born in europe between 1939 and 1945 where Germans and russians on the other side of Vistula river ???

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by King Lear

So far so good...


But Copernicus (orig. Koppernigk) was a GERMAN astronomer!!!
Born in the GERMAN city Thorn and died in the GERMAN city Frauenburg.

Don't believe in Polish sources in this issue, because they never will admit that Copernicus indeed was an ethnical German.
Since 1945 they try to Polonize him.

Don't spread lies on this forum. we don't know much about his ethnicity ( it was a long time ago) but he was born in the Polish town of Toruń and his name was Mikołaj Kopernik. According to your way of thinking Maria Skłodowska-Curie could be French because she married a French guy and studied and worked in France.

[Dantheman62]

Here ya go,....Nicolaus Copernicus was born on February 19, 1473, in a house on St. Anne's Street (now Copernicus Street) in the city of Toruń (Thorn). Toruń, situated on the Vistula River, was a city in Royal Prussia, a region of the Kingdom of Poland.[1] [2]

Nicolaus was named after his father, who about 1458 had moved from Kraków. The father was a wealthy copper trader who had become a respected citizen of that city. Nicolaus' mother, Barbara Watzenrode (died after 1495), had been born into a wealthy merchant family that was part of the patrician class in Toruń.

Nicolaus' father died between 1483 and 1485. After that, his maternal uncle, Lucas Watzenrode the Younger (1447–1512), a church canon who would later become Prince-Bishop governor of the Archbishopric of Warmia, took young Nicolaus under his protection and saw to his education and future career.

Nicolaus was the youngest of four children. His brother Andreas became an Augustinian canon at Frombork (Frauenburg). His sister Barbara (named after her mother) became a Benedictine nun. His sister Katharina married Barthel Gertner, a businessman and city councilor.



Name
Numerous variants of Copernicus' name are documented.[3] Until the mid-1530s, he mostly signed himself Coppernic. Afterward, he followed the academic custom of his time and adopted a Latinized version of his name. Thus, on the title page of his epochal book, Nicolai Copernici Torinensis De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium Libri VI, the astronomer's name appears as Nicolaus Copernicus.

In 1776, Johann Gottfried Herder introduced the spelling Nikolaus Kopernikus, which replaced each c with k and changed pp to p. This spelling became popular in German writings, although scholars argued for Coppernicus. The Polish rendering is Mikołaj Kopernik; the surname means "one who works with copper".[4]

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by Dantheman62

Here ya go,....Nicolaus Copernicus was born on February 19, 1473, in a house on St. Anne's Street (now Copernicus Street) in the city of Toruń (Thorn). Toruń, situated on the Vistula River, was a city in Royal Prussia, a region of the Kingdom of Poland.[1] [2]

Nicolaus was named after his father, who about 1458 had moved from Kraków. The father was a wealthy copper trader who had become a respected citizen of that city. Nicolaus' mother, Barbara Watzenrode (died after 1495), had been born into a wealthy merchant family that was part of the patrician class in Toruń.

Nicolaus' father died between 1483 and 1485. After that, his maternal uncle, Lucas Watzenrode the Younger (1447–1512), a church canon who would later become Prince-Bishop governor of the Archbishopric of Warmia, took young Nicolaus under his protection and saw to his education and future career.

Nicolaus was the youngest of four children. His brother Andreas became an Augustinian canon at Frombork (Frauenburg). His sister Barbara (named after her mother) became a Benedictine nun. His sister Katharina married Barthel Gertner, a businessman and city councilor.



Name
Numerous variants of Copernicus' name are documented.[3] Until the mid-1530s, he mostly signed himself Coppernic. Afterward, he followed the academic custom of his time and adopted a Latinized version of his name. Thus, on the title page of his epochal book, Nicolai Copernici Torinensis De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium Libri VI, the astronomer's name appears as Nicolaus Copernicus.

In 1776, Johann Gottfried Herder introduced the spelling Nikolaus Kopernikus, which replaced each c with k and changed pp to p. This spelling became popular in German writings, although scholars argued for Coppernicus. The Polish rendering is Mikołaj Kopernik; the surname means "one who works with copper".[4]

I'm impressed. Thank you for all that exhaustive information. If the French hadn't bought Corsica, Napoleon Would have been Italian.

[King Lear]

Originally Posted by keria13

Sure and we have done world war 2. If You dont know history then stop saying stuff about Poland You dont know. And the city was called Torun. Poland was occupied many times by German and Russians,

So maybe by your thinking everybody born in europe between 1939 and 1945 where Germans and russians on the other side of Vistula river ???

@Keria@Burgundia

Are you really so uneducated?
today Poland owns 33% of German soil!
These are the regions of Schlesien, Pommern, Neumark, Wartheland, Westpreusen, Danzig, Ostpreussen.
Which had 17 million German inhabitants!
These regions had a 1000 years long German history, before a period of 500 years long Slavic history (but mostly uninhabited) and before that it was inhabited by Germanics up to the Weichsel river and above for millenias.

After WW1 Poles got Wartheland, Oberschlesien and Westpreussen with 2 million German inhabitants and Danzig became internationalized.
And the Poles, instead of being thankful for this big gift by the Allies/Entente had nothing other to do than demand more German soil - even before 1939 they demanded the Oder river border!!!
And so they terrorized the 2 million Germans in then Poland (1919-1939) to ignite a war and to get the Oder river border with France's support.
They killed, abused and terrorized the German minority as they did to the Ukrainian, Lithuanian, White Russian and Jewish minority.
They wanted to drive them out of the newly gained territories after WW1 or to Polonize them. The terror was even so great that many Jews emigrated over Nazi Germany into other countries!!!!

And after months of this terror and several offers of Hitler to solute the corridor question, he said "I cannot take this anymore" and attacked on September 1st 1939. And that exactely was what the Poles wanted - because they knew the Allies wouldnt tollerate that and so their dream of an Oder river border came true.
But unfortunately for them they lost Eastern Poland forever to the Soviets. But in fact in Eastern Poland Poles never were dominant, it mostly was inhabitad by White Russians and Ukrainians, just with some small Polish clusters.

Just to remind: Poland did not become a dictatorship in 1945 under the communists it even was one before!
The Pisuldski regime in 1930s was a military dictatorship!

In case of Israel and Palestine - some would call that a unrightfull occupation!



And the city's name is THORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can fake history books but not people's memories!

Because 30-40 million of today Germans have their origin in these lost/occupied regions!
Forgive? Maybe. Forget? Never!



mother, Barbara Watzenrode
uncle, Lucas Watzenrode
brother Andreas (Frauenburg)
sister Barbara (named after her mother)
sister Katharina married Barthel Gertner


Oh man these names sound sooooooooo Polish


And to compare the Polish immigrant Marie Curie to the German Nikolaus Koppernigk is sooo damn stupid. Unbelievable.

[oldpaganfreak]

all arguments aside, gentlemen, please. ( aside...thery're a bit snippy, doncha think?) the original post was about an incredible bit of dna identification. what a marvel!! from a hair, to be able to identify the remains. pretty cool....you gotta agree, right?
it impressed the sh*t outa me!
peace, patrick

[Sushi]

Pardon me, but I must second King Lear's emphatic approach. Too many people forget their history and fail to do their research.

Political correctness is all well and good, but it has its place. It should never be used to obfuscate the truth.

[oldpaganfreak]

emphatic is fine; but rudeness is rudeness. this discussion escalated to personal insults.

[Sushi]

I don't see anything personally insulting here. I, too, am stunned by the apparent absence of basic education in a number of areas. I understand King Lear's frustration and I redouble my support.

Probably.

[burgundia]

King lear lies again and I hope he'll be banned by spreading lies and misinformation. Judging from his other posts he is full of hate and prejudice. I hadn't noticed any similar attacks before he came to this forum. i think that he came to this forum for that purpose. those territories belonged to germany for only 400 years. Originally they belonged to Poland and now they again belong to Poland. what is more Slavic tribes reached much further west into the territory of present day germany. There still descendents of those people living in the east of germany and they speak a Slavic language. You are Right, History can't be forgotten!
You are not a man of peace! And you do not belong in this forum!

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by Sushi

I don't see anything personally insulting here. I, too, am stunned by the apparent absence of basic education in a number of areas. I understand King Lear's frustration and I redouble my support.

Probably.

Learn better before you start redoubling your support. And I will tell you sth in secret. Germans stole their land from ancient Romans because as far as I know that territory belonged to The Roman Empire.

[burgundia]

[QUOTE=King Lear;86013]@Keria@Burgundia

Are you really so uneducated?
today Poland owns 33% of German soil!
These are the regions of Schlesien, Pommern, Neumark, Wartheland, Westpreusen, Danzig, Ostpreussen.
Which had 17 million German inhabitants!
These regions had a 1000 years long German history, before a period of 500 years long Slavic history (but mostly uninhabited) and before that it was inhabited by Germanics up to the Weichsel river and above for millenias.

After WW1 Poles got Wartheland, Oberschlesien and Westpreussen with 2 million German inhabitants and Danzig became internationalized.
And the Poles, instead of being thankful for this big gift by the Allies/Entente had nothing other to do than demand more German soil - even before 1939 they demanded the Oder river border!!!
And so they terrorized the 2 million Germans in then Poland (1919-1939) to ignite a war and to get the Oder river border with France's support.
They killed, abused and terrorized the German minority as they did to the Ukrainian, Lithuanian, White Russian and Jewish minority.
They wanted to drive them out of the newly gained territories after WW1 or to Polonize them. The terror was even so great that many Jews emigrated over Nazi Germany into other countries!!!!

And after months of this terror and several offers of Hitler to solute the corridor question, he said "I cannot take this anymore" and attacked on September 1st 1939. And that exactely was what the Poles wanted - because they knew the Allies wouldnt tollerate that and so their dream of an Oder river border came true.
But unfortunately for them they lost Eastern Poland forever to the Soviets. But in fact in Eastern Poland Poles never were dominant, it mostly was inhabitad by White Russians and Ukrainians, just with some small Polish clusters.

Just to remind: Poland did not become a dictatorship in 1945 under the communists it even was one before!
The Pisuldski regime in 1930s was a military dictatorship!

In case of Israel and Palestine - some would call that a unrightfull occupation!


You are sick! from your post Hitler is your hero.

[burgundia]

You a re a liar and a hater. First polish capital was in Gniezno, in the area you consider German. It means that Poland founded thei capital in gemany. It proves you are a dangerous liar.

[King Lear]

burgundia
I'm a hater and a liar and hitler is my hero?!?

I think now you have shown your insanity!


I think YOU think that way because you're a Kazcinski-twin-like-Polish-nationalist, who closes his eyes before historical reality.
stuck up with anti-german propaganda till 1945
to make the Poles confident that they aren't sitting today on stolen land!

I admitted in my post that these territories also had a Slavic history!!! (500 years)
but in these times the regions were hardly inhabited
and from 900AD German peasant-settlers came and cultivated these wild lands.

And Slavic is NOT equal to Polish - A bit lesser Kaczinski propaganda would be better for you!
Otherwise you could demand with the same argument Czechy, Slovakia, Slovenja and so on...

So, from 900 to 1945 AD these lands had a German history
from 400 to 900 AD a SLAVIC history
and 2000 BC to 400 AD East Germanic tribes settled there up to the Weichsel river and above
These lands only have a 60 years long Polish history!!!


You can find this data in every neutral encyclopedia, burn your Kaczinski propaganda books!

And I will tell you sth in secret. Germans stole their land from ancient Romans because as far as I know that territory belonged to The Roman Empire.

In which parallel universe you're living in?
So, French, Brits, Spaniards, Jews... all stole their land from the ancient Romans? Because as far (and that isn't very far) as YOU know that territory belonged to The Roman Empire.

And Gniezno your capital?
You mean the German city Gnesen...
You can change all the names (as you did in 1945) but you cannot spoil the truth!


P.S. did you know that the Burgunder, from which you took your nick, were an East Germanic tribe, who first settled in the middle of today Poland and then migrated to the middle Rhine river, where they were the subject for Germany's greatest epos - The Nibelungenlied?

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by King Lear

@Keria@Burgundia

A

And to compare the Polish immigrant Marie Curie to the German Nikolaus Koppernigk is sooo damn stupid. Unbelievable.

Such comparison was done on purpose. It makes no sense exactly like yours.

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by oldpaganfreak

all arguments aside, gentlemen, please. ( aside...thery're a bit snippy, doncha think?) the original post was about an incredible bit of dna identification. what a marvel!! from a hair, to be able to identify the remains. pretty cool....you gotta agree, right?
it impressed the sh*t outa me!
peace, patrick

Because that post was about DNA and not about his nationality. But certain people have their own agenda here.
A famous dancer wacław Niżyński was born in russia, of Polish parents. they both went to Russia ( during that time poland was partitioned by 3 empires so there was no Polish state as such), but nobody in Poland says that Nizynski was a great Polish dancer. The world knows him as a great russian ballet dancer adl let it stay that way:he was born there, he lived there, he learned to dance there.

[dayzero]

Anyone heard of Shakespeare?

King Lear, Shakespeare;
Info about this very bleak play;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Lear

Just a thought, while the battle rages.

Synopsis;
Lear, who is old, wants to retire from power. He decides to divide his realm among his three daughters, and offers the largest share to the one who loves him best.............

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by King Lear

burgundia
I'm a hater and a liar and hitler is my hero?!?

I think now you have shown your insanity!


I think YOU think that way because you're a Kazcinski-twin-like-Polish-nationalist, who closes his eyes before historical reality.
stuck up with anti-german propaganda till 1945
to make the Poles confident that they aren't sitting today on stolen land!

I admitted in my post that these territories also had a Slavic history!!! (500 years)
but in these times the regions were hardly inhabited
and from 900AD German peasant-settlers came and cultivated these wild lands.

And Slavic is NOT equal to Polish - A bit lesser Kaczinski propaganda would be better for you!
Otherwise you could demand with the same argument Czechy, Slovakia, Slovenja and so on...

So, from 900 to 1945 AD these lands had a German history
from 400 to 900 AD a SLAVIC history
and 2000 BC to 400 AD East Germanic tribes settled there up to the Weichsel river and above
These lands only have a 60 years long Polish history!!!


You can find this data in every neutral encyclopedia, burn your Kaczinski propaganda books!




In which parallel universe you're living in?
So, French, Brits, Spaniards, Jews... all stole their land from the ancient Romans? Because as far (and that isn't very far) as YOU know that territory belonged to The Roman Empire.

And Gniezno your capital?
You mean the German city Gnesen...
You can change all the names (as you did in 1945) but you cannot spoil the truth!


P.S. did you know that the Burgunder, from which you took your nick, were an East Germanic tribe, who first settled in the middle of today Poland and then migrated to the middle Rhine river, where they were the subject for Germany's greatest epos - The Nibelungenlied?

Ok. The first capital of Kingdom of Poland was founded in Germany. The jews were persecuted in Poland and then saved by the Germans and the First capital of Poland was in the uninhabited land.everybody can read in Wikipedia about the history of this land and who originally lived there and thud discover the truth. I am not going to continue that nonsense provoked by you that is why I am not going to attack Germans for anything they did during their history. But don't tell the rest of the world that Poland invaded germany starting the WWII.
My nick comes from the name of the land in France where they make excellent wine.
I have no idea what you started that nonsense for . Poor Copernicus, poor guy who started the thread.
I never questioned here any borders of any country,. This forum is not for expressing your frustration with the history of your country. Don't call me a nationalist because I could use a much stronger term when referring to you.
P.S. When it comes to Kaczynski....I can't stand either of them.

[King Lear]

Originally Posted by burgundia

Ok. The first capital of Kingdom of Poland was founded in Germany. The jews were persecuted in Poland and then saved by the Germans and the First capital of Poland was in the uninhabited land.everybody can read in Wikipedia about the history of this land and who originally lived there and thud discover the truth. I am not going to continue that nonsense provoked by you that is why I am not going to attack Germans for anything they did during their history. But don't tell the rest of the world that Poland invaded germany starting the WWII.
My nick comes from the name of the land in France where they make excellent wine.
I have no idea what you started that nonsense for . Poor Copernicus, poor guy who started the thread.
I never questioned here any borders of any country,. This forum is not for expressing your frustration with the history of your country. Don't call me a nationalist because I could use a much stronger term when referring to you.
P.S. When it comes to Kaczynski....I can't stand either of them.

- the Jews were persecuted in Poland 1919-1939 just as any other minority.
nothing more nothing less.
- i never said that the Jews were saved by the Germans! I just said that the terror was so badly that they preferred to flee over Nazi Germany into other countries! you can read this all in Allied, German, Soviet and even Polish files of the foreign ministry/Department of State.
- I never said uninhabited - but mostly uninhabited. But this doesn't play any role - because Slavics are not Poles! As Dutchs are Germanics but not Germans! That's a difference.
- I never told that Poland attacked Germany and started WW2 - I just said that they provoked the German attack by terrorizing the German minority for years
- the region Burgundy in France was named after the Eastgermanic tribe of the Burgunder, genius
- i started the discussion because - YOU - as all Poles don't admit that Koppernigk was a ethnical German (at least half) and that the regions he lived in were inhabited by Germans and had a German history - but you Poles in your concrete-nationalism will never admit that!
- and you brought up the issue of DNA and that it isnt equal to the nationality - but if he had a German mother (prooved) and IF the Germans have a certain Haplogroup which the Poles dont share - the issue is clear
-

I never questioned here any borders of any country

really? You're denying all the time that territories were German - for me that defines "questioning"
-

I could use a much stronger term when referring to you

- didn't you do that at all? calling me a Hitler-admirer is the same as saying NAZI! And I just wanted to correct your historical picture blindfolded by patriotism and nationalism.
- If you don't agree with the Kaczinski twins - then I apologize
- finally: I agree. people who read this dispute can go to the sources and check it

[burgundia]

Poor frustrated, full of hate King Lear,
i'm not going to waste my time and energy on responding to your posts any more, so that's it for me. I want to raise my vibrations, I do not want to lower them to get to your level.
at this point I feel sorry for you but I think you should start waging your wars somewhere else.

[King Lear]

And you have always to have the last word

But unfortunately for you I'm conditioned in the same way