Elements

Czymra · 01-12-2009, 08:48 PM

I like to keep my questions short so excuse me if this seems dumb.
I just haven't found any article comparing and explaining:

Why are there four western elements and five eastern (chinese?) How do they relate? What about the relation to other concepts like the compass directions.

The eastern elements are easily a pentagram. Are the western ones just a square? Could there be a centre that isn't usually taught?

01-14-2009, 12:10 AM

Why are there four western elements and five eastern (chinese?) How do they relate? What about the relation to other concepts like the compass directions.

Hi Czymra - I tried to post here already today, so I'll keep this version brief and less informative. I like my first version better, but it seems to be lost to the aether too these days. I think it's because of my new Theory of Lost Socks which is a big secret, fraught with danger and perilous tasks.

There ARE examples of 5 elements in western thought. It's just that Plato rode off with the historical show. Aristotle was a better scientist, a more practical person, a great military strategist and great thinker. Plato was his teacher and I am sorry that the teacher off'ed himself, but...

The seed was smart too. Aristotle posited 4 elements and ether.

All substances were combinations of elements and elemental qualities. The elements are: fire, water, earth, and air. (Aristotle added later another "element" - Ether which was a perfect substance an what the heavenly bodies are composed of) The qualities are: hot, cold, wet, dry. The qualities define the character of "elements".
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7997/aristot.htm

This is very much in line with Native American cosmology.

The earth is divided into four quadrants by the cardinal directions north, south, east, and west. The human task on earth is to keep the upper world and the underworld in balance.
http://www.dia.org/collections/aonwc...ericanart.html

Or even Egyptian pyramids, if you think about it as geometry. For a while there in the late 70's and early eighties when I was an engineering student, Aristotle's ether concepts were ridiculed and reviled, so he was some quaint old nobody, irrelevant. I never liked Plato - pet peeve reasons to be discussed later (e.g. Church & Helenism, Gnosticism's endtime, revulsion of human bodies/needs, anti-naturalism, pro-formism, casting poets out of his Republic).

Historically, the thread picks up with quantum aether energy in physics. It's a bit of a Newtonian diversion along the path. At the time of Newton, other scientists were brilliant at work.

Goethe: As well as being a poet/playwright/novelist, he also studied optics, genetics (plant sexuality), alchemy.

He also made important discoveries in connection with plant and animal life, and evolved a non-Newtonian and unorthodox theory of the character of light and color, which has influenced such abstract painters as Kandinsky and Mondrian.
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/goethe.htm

His actual scientific process is most interesting for me (methodology), and his thread of influence is in the work of Darwin, Wittgenstein, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzshe, Ernst Cassirer, CG Jung, Wittgenstein, Rudolf Steiner, Mozart, Mahler, Beethoven, Jared Diamonds et al.

So, Aristotle is on the shelf. Goethe's on the shelf. Native American cosmology was systematically (politically) damaged via death raids, illness, loss of language and God knows whatever else. Now we have Plato, machines, a secret Vatican Library.

My point is we have 5's too. I'm not that familiar with Chinese philosophy, except for Lao Tsu and Confucius, both interesting. As for any identification with the pentacle in terms of Satanism, I have none; for me, it's a load of crock, though admittedly believing can make things appear I guess - conjuring horror is not my cup of tea, thank you. I like apples which, when cut sideways, display a penacle, which is beautiful as a form in and of itself.

The compass directions are a land-based, or sea-based (say earth surface based) navigation tool that we invented, like Inukshuks the Inuit use to mark paths home from journeys. Stars & sextants. It's probably not 'real' if you know what I mean - because electricity and magnetism swirl around like a big cosmic party. Our toasters affect the play; our bodies affect the play; our movements, water's movement, heavenly orbits are the unit. The Great Mysterious.

Elements is an interesting word. There are elements of a story, elements of grammar, elements of style, elements of truth, elements of music, elementary particles, common elements of dreams, elements in a military formation (soldiers), elements as a synonym for weather/natural forces ('face the elements'), in one's element, out of one's element elements elements elements.

Makes me wonder too - I'm actually not keen on the methology of scientific inquiry today. There are spliced genes, dead monkeys, weaponized germs, toxic gases, idiot particle accelerators, profits on mutations, but no poems and true aims.

Sorry, I am in a grumpy mood today on account of losing this post at first try. I think my body affects my computer, not vice versa. That brings me to quantum mechanics again. What if the Void bites back, is sentient, watches, is actually human. That would be the 5th element in science. As well, I forget the fifth estate definition exactly, but there's a five there too. See estates of the realm (wikipedia) or another random guy's rant about it.

The 'coming' Pole Shift could probably be easily corrected with human ingenuity, Aryurvedic/Indian and Chinese technical strategies, mixed with modern 'elements' - but no one asks the Void of fear of international cooperation. It is just is frustrating that a big BOOM is imminent (we hear), and everyone runs around killing each other instead.

Cordially
Dark & Dank & Sour

However, I see a glimmer of hope on account of your definitely not-dum and very interesting question.

777 The Great Work · 01-14-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czymra

I like to keep my questions short so excuse me if this seems dumb.
I just haven't found any article comparing and explaining:

Why are there four western elements and five eastern (chinese?) How do they relate? What about the relation to other concepts like the compass directions.

The eastern elements are easily a pentagram. Are the western ones just a square? Could there be a centre that isn't usually taught?

The elements are the four forms of life, Earth(grounding), (Water)Contracting, (Air) Circulating, and Fire(expansion
(hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds)oxygen, hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen. The fifth is the ether. The Thumb so to speak. I feel the thumb is going to be paramount for the next metamorphisis for those who remain on this planet.

The fifth element has always been kept secret because of its power.All we have to do is look at our forms and the secret is revealed on a physical level.

One thing you might notice is the western thought is in conflict with eastern as it mirrors the conflict of the left and right hemispheres of the brain.The rebellion is to get the son or sun to rise in the west on a spiritual and physical level. Ie project Lucifer. There is already a second sun orbiting our old sun just like the bible says quiet as kept. Alcion

asteram · 01-14-2009, 04:10 AM

777-

I think you are mixing your Greek philosophers up a bit. Try Socrates.

777 The Great Work · 01-14-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asteram

777-

I think you are mixing your Greek philosophers up a bit. Try Socrates.

Alcion is the name of the central sun.Sorry for the misunderstanding

Czymra · 01-14-2009, 07:57 AM

Thanks for the input so far. I'll have to ponder this when there's more time on my hands.

As for the Sun rising in the west, isn't that exactly what would happen when there is a pole shift? To reverse poles the induction process would have to be reversed, as well methinks.

01-12-2009, 08:48 PM	#1
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Elements I like to keep my questions short so excuse me if this seems dumb. I just haven't found any article comparing and explaining: Why are there four western elements and five eastern (chinese?) How do they relate? What about the relation to other concepts like the compass directions. The eastern elements are easily a pentagram. Are the western ones just a square? Could there be a centre that isn't usually taught?

01-14-2009, 12:10 AM	#2
no caste Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Elements Why are there four western elements and five eastern (chinese?) How do they relate? What about the relation to other concepts like the compass directions. Hi Czymra - I tried to post here already today, so I'll keep this version brief and less informative. I like my first version better, but it seems to be lost to the aether too these days. I think it's because of my new Theory of Lost Socks which is a big secret, fraught with danger and perilous tasks. There ARE examples of 5 elements in western thought. It's just that Plato rode off with the historical show. Aristotle was a better scientist, a more practical person, a great military strategist and great thinker. Plato was his teacher and I am sorry that the teacher off'ed himself, but... The seed was smart too. Aristotle posited 4 elements and ether. All substances were combinations of elements and elemental qualities. The elements are: fire, water, earth, and air. (Aristotle added later another "element" - Ether which was a perfect substance an what the heavenly bodies are composed of) The qualities are: hot, cold, wet, dry. The qualities define the character of "elements". http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7997/aristot.htm This is very much in line with Native American cosmology. The earth is divided into four quadrants by the cardinal directions north, south, east, and west. The human task on earth is to keep the upper world and the underworld in balance. http://www.dia.org/collections/aonwc...ericanart.html Or even Egyptian pyramids, if you think about it as geometry. For a while there in the late 70's and early eighties when I was an engineering student, Aristotle's ether concepts were ridiculed and reviled, so he was some quaint old nobody, irrelevant. I never liked Plato - pet peeve reasons to be discussed later (e.g. Church & Helenism, Gnosticism's endtime, revulsion of human bodies/needs, anti-naturalism, pro-formism, casting poets out of his Republic). Historically, the thread picks up with quantum aether energy in physics. It's a bit of a Newtonian diversion along the path. At the time of Newton, other scientists were brilliant at work. Goethe: As well as being a poet/playwright/novelist, he also studied optics, genetics (plant sexuality), alchemy. He also made important discoveries in connection with plant and animal life, and evolved a non-Newtonian and unorthodox theory of the character of light and color, which has influenced such abstract painters as Kandinsky and Mondrian. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/goethe.htm His actual scientific process is most interesting for me (methodology), and his thread of influence is in the work of Darwin, Wittgenstein, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzshe, Ernst Cassirer, CG Jung, Wittgenstein, Rudolf Steiner, Mozart, Mahler, Beethoven, Jared Diamonds et al. So, Aristotle is on the shelf. Goethe's on the shelf. Native American cosmology was systematically (politically) damaged via death raids, illness, loss of language and God knows whatever else. Now we have Plato, machines, a secret Vatican Library. My point is we have 5's too. I'm not that familiar with Chinese philosophy, except for Lao Tsu and Confucius, both interesting. As for any identification with the pentacle in terms of Satanism, I have none; for me, it's a load of crock, though admittedly believing can make things appear I guess - conjuring horror is not my cup of tea, thank you. I like apples which, when cut sideways, display a penacle, which is beautiful as a form in and of itself. The compass directions are a land-based, or sea-based (say earth surface based) navigation tool that we invented, like Inukshuks the Inuit use to mark paths home from journeys. Stars & sextants. It's probably not 'real' if you know what I mean - because electricity and magnetism swirl around like a big cosmic party. Our toasters affect the play; our bodies affect the play; our movements, water's movement, heavenly orbits are the unit. The Great Mysterious. Elements is an interesting word. There are elements of a story, elements of grammar, elements of style, elements of truth, elements of music, elementary particles, common elements of dreams, elements in a military formation (soldiers), elements as a synonym for weather/natural forces ('face the elements'), in one's element, out of one's element elements elements elements. Makes me wonder too - I'm actually not keen on the methology of scientific inquiry today. There are spliced genes, dead monkeys, weaponized germs, toxic gases, idiot particle accelerators, profits on mutations, but no poems and true aims. Sorry, I am in a grumpy mood today on account of losing this post at first try. I think my body affects my computer, not vice versa. That brings me to quantum mechanics again. What if the Void bites back, is sentient, watches, is actually human. That would be the 5th element in science. As well, I forget the fifth estate definition exactly, but there's a five there too. See estates of the realm (wikipedia) or another random guy's rant about it. The 'coming' Pole Shift could probably be easily corrected with human ingenuity, Aryurvedic/Indian and Chinese technical strategies, mixed with modern 'elements' - but no one asks the Void of fear of international cooperation. It is just is frustrating that a big BOOM is imminent (we hear), and everyone runs around killing each other instead. Cordially Dark & Dank & Sour However, I see a glimmer of hope on account of your definitely not-dum and very interesting question.

01-14-2009, 04:10 AM	#4
asteram Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Isla de Margarita, Venezuela Posts: 161	Re: Elements 777- I think you are mixing your Greek philosophers up a bit. Try Socrates.

01-14-2009, 07:57 AM	#6
Czymra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,151	Re: Elements Thanks for the input so far. I'll have to ponder this when there's more time on my hands. As for the Sun rising in the west, isn't that exactly what would happen when there is a pole shift? To reverse poles the induction process would have to be reversed, as well methinks.