The US Constitution

Seashore · 05-03-2009, 12:32 PM

This thread is for citizens of the United States...

Does it make a difference to you if our Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) is eliminated?

orthodoxymoron · 05-03-2009, 03:10 PM

Often...things and people are not appreciated...until we lose them. The U.S. Constitution is not a particularly interesting document. It's mostly procedural in nature. It's quite short and to the point. Many people would find the National Enquirer to be much more interesting. So...why get all excited about the Constitution? After all...it's just a GD piece of paper.

The U.S. Constitution is at the center of the best effort of the human race to have people govern themselves with responsible freedom...as opposed to being ruled by dictators...who are often very corrupt, cruel, and violent. The Constitution comes to life when one closely examines how and why it came into existence. When one considers the practical day to day implementation of this document...with all of it's implications and ramifications...it truly becomes a living document...but not in the liberal sense! The Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers are a good place to start...to understand why the Constitution is so important.

The real question is whether Earth will be a free or enslaved planet. If the United States and the U.S. Constitution are neutered or destroyed...there will be nothing standing between tyranny and the rest of the world. If this world falls into tyranny and enslavement...it may take centuries...and unbelievable sacrifices...to get back to where we are today. Please consider this matter from a theological and spiritual perspective also...whether you are a religious person or not. The U.S. Constitution and the Teachings of Jesus are in the crosshairs. The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

Seashore · 05-03-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

You're thinking that those who are interested in the preservation of the Constitution need to think in terms of how to deal with an alien adversary, as opposed to some other approach?

Seashore · 05-03-2009, 04:19 PM

Because it is not too long, I have copied and pasted the Bill of Rights, just to remind us all what is included:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

______________________________________________

Here's the link that I copied and pasted from:

Bill of Rights Text

Malynda · 05-03-2009, 06:16 PM

It does make a difference to me whether or not our Constitution is scrapped. I feel that the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights are the way the U. S. A. should be. I think we all as a nation need to sit down and look at all the other amendments that have been added as well as our original documents and see what should stay and what should go though. I believe out first three documents cover it all if we really look at it but if it can be shown that something else would suit us better, then I'm all for it. As of now, The Constitution is still precious in my eyes.

If anyone is interested, Noami Wolf discusses our founding documents and how far away we have gotten from them in her book/video The End of America and her book Give me Liberty. I've mentioned her a lot lately because she strikes a cord with the patriot in me, deeply.

Seashore · 05-03-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malynda

If anyone is interested, Noami Wolf discusses our founding documents and how far away we have gotten from them in her book/video The End of America and her book Give me Liberty. I've mentioned her a lot lately because she strikes a cord with the patriot in me, deeply.

It was reading the "NAOMI WOLF Speaks..."Americans Facing A Coup" thread that inspired me to start this thread.

I feel that we Americans desperately need to pause and reflect upon the legacy that has been handed down to us and what it is that we need to do.

Malynda · 05-03-2009, 07:04 PM

Thank you for that link, seashore. I had not seen it yet.

Let's have a town hall meeting. I see no reason why this cannot happen. I know things will probably be chucked at me for saying this but I think Obama might be up for this. All we have to do is pick a time and place (which can be physical and virtual) and hash this all out. Let's review these documents together. I'm down to start contacting people such as Ms. Wolf and see if we can't organize this.

Seashore · 05-03-2009, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malynda

Let's have a town hall meeting.

I've been thinking about the possibility of a rally to rescind the Patriot Act. A rally on the National Mall...

Malynda · 05-03-2009, 09:56 PM

Now that would be awesome! I have seen no movements to rescind the Patriot Act but we all take issue with it.

orthodoxymoron · 05-04-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seashore

You're thinking that those who are interested in the preservation of the Constitution need to think in terms of how to deal with an alien adversary, as opposed to some other approach?

Spiritual issues should not be excluded from conversations regarding who really controls planet Earth...which includes the United States. Spiritual discussions should not exclude the possibility of non-human entities...which may be both physical and spiritual. But who knows...perhaps humans would like to be enslaved by demonic entities. There is some evidence that this is already the case.

I like your ideas regarding dealing with the so called 'Patriot' Act.

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

The following statement, from the "Mission Statement" of researcher Wes Penre, reminded me of your post:

"Ultimately, this war for control and slavery of humanity is inter-dimensional and does not have the origins on this Earth."

Here is the link to his blog:

Fighting for Planet Earth; Blog by Wes Penre

orthodoxymoron · 05-04-2009, 04:27 PM

Thank-you for the link. That's the sort of thing I had in mind.

I'm not opposed to a world government. I'm not opposed to population reduction. I'm not opposed to underground bases. I'm not opposed to a global currency.

What I am opposed to is a dictatorship...of any kind...human or otherwise. This places the human race at the back of the bus. I continue to like the idea of having the U.S. Constitution at the core of the United Nations and world government...with the various regions of the world as additional states...with all of the rights and responsibilities of the current states of the United States. This would not be nationalism or domination by the United States. It would simply be we the people of Earth...deciding our future in a rational and organized manner. We the people of Earth should not be slaves or lab rats.

I simply want Earth to be run properly. Look at the last 100 years...and ask yourself if Earth has been run properly. I believe that at least 100 million people have died violent deaths during this period. The human race has been horribly jerked around and mistreated. I want the bs to stop...now.

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

I continue to like the idea of having the U.S. Constitution at the core of ... world government...

I worry that having only one central government for the world will result in an impossible set-up for checks and balances against tyranny. What we need is to restore the Constitution in the US, not try to transplant it with only one central government for the whole planet. It would be unmanageable. Too much distance between the central authority and the individual.

orthodoxymoron · 05-04-2009, 05:25 PM

Is the United States just the right size...right now? Is it too big? How big is too big? If Canada and Mexico were added to the United States...and under the U.S. Constitution...would this be too big...and unmanageable?

There are very, very powerful forces at work to create a dictatorial world government...in complete opposition to the U.S. Constitution. This may be an all or nothing situation. I'm only bringing this proposition up because of the activities and goals of the New World Order. There may be no middle ground.

The various nations would be nations within a nation. They would retain their cultures and religions. They would settle internal disputes and problems...their way. A centralized decentralization...to facilitate orderly, rational, and non-corrupt international cooperation would be the goal. The United Nations is currently an international joke. It could be transformed into something truly beneficial to the human race.

We stand at a crossroads and a precipice...without a safety net.

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

If Canada and Mexico were added to the United States...and under the U.S. Constitution...would this be too big...and unmanageable?

Yes. We've let things slip as it is.

orthodoxymoron · 05-04-2009, 05:55 PM

Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?

Probably both.

JoyAnna · 05-04-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

I worry that having only one central government for the world will result in an impossible set-up for checks and balances against tyranny. What we need is to restore the Constitution in the US, not try to transplant it with only one central government for the whole planet. It would be unmanageable. Too much distance between the central authority and the individual.

Yes, but –– if the constitution were adhered to faithfully (both across the planet and in the USA) the concept of 'central authority' would not be an issue. The state governments would deal with all issues not specifically allocated to the central government.

Malynda · 05-04-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoyAnna

Yes, but –– if the constitution were adhered to faithfully (both across the planet and in the USA) the concept of 'central authority' would not be an issue. The state governments would deal with all issues not specifically allocated to the central government.

I agree with that. It's in the Bill of Rights and I feel the less centralized and more localized, the better.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoyAnna

...if the constitution were adhered to faithfully...

What safeguards would bring this about?

Malynda · 05-04-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seashore

What safeguards would bring this about?

We the People. We are not entirely without fault. We need to know our rights and stand up for them.

"At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic if you can keep it" responded Franklin."

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malynda

...the less centralized and more localized, the better...

I agree.

How do we maintain local control?

Malynda · 05-04-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seashore

I agree.

How do we maintain local control?

I know that I myself have only recently begun to explore my local government in my city and county. I was too busy worrying about the federal government. If more people became more knowledgeable about and active within the local government, perhaps we could maintain better control of our so-called leaders. Right now, this seems to work best in smaller cities. My best friend grew up in a very small town and everyone knew everything that went on with everyone, including government who were the same people they ran into all around town. With more knowledge of how things work locally and who our local reps are, maybe this could work.

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malynda

We the People. We are not entirely without fault. We need to know our rights and stand up for them.

Naomi Wolf is a good leader in this regard...

And people are producing videos and putting them on the internet to express concern...

We're communicating with others with this forum...

And I'm praying that the military and the police are reading this forum. I hope they will come through for us, rather than for the powers that be...

Seashore · 05-04-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malynda

I know that I myself have only recently begun to explore my local government in my city and county. I was too busy worrying about the federal government.

Me, too. I need to focus on that...

05-03-2009, 12:32 PM	#1
Seashore Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,564	The US Constitution This thread is for citizens of the United States... Does it make a difference to you if our Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) is eliminated?

05-03-2009, 03:10 PM	#2
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: The US Constitution Often...things and people are not appreciated...until we lose them. The U.S. Constitution is not a particularly interesting document. It's mostly procedural in nature. It's quite short and to the point. Many people would find the National Enquirer to be much more interesting. So...why get all excited about the Constitution? After all...it's just a GD piece of paper. The U.S. Constitution is at the center of the best effort of the human race to have people govern themselves with responsible freedom...as opposed to being ruled by dictators...who are often very corrupt, cruel, and violent. The Constitution comes to life when one closely examines how and why it came into existence. When one considers the practical day to day implementation of this document...with all of it's implications and ramifications...it truly becomes a living document...but not in the liberal sense! The Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers are a good place to start...to understand why the Constitution is so important. The real question is whether Earth will be a free or enslaved planet. If the United States and the U.S. Constitution are neutered or destroyed...there will be nothing standing between tyranny and the rest of the world. If this world falls into tyranny and enslavement...it may take centuries...and unbelievable sacrifices...to get back to where we are today. Please consider this matter from a theological and spiritual perspective also...whether you are a religious person or not. The U.S. Constitution and the Teachings of Jesus are in the crosshairs. The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war. Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 05-03-2009 at 03:25 PM.

05-03-2009, 04:19 PM	#4
Seashore Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,564	Re: The US Constitution Because it is not too long, I have copied and pasted the Bill of Rights, just to remind us all what is included: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Amendment III No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. Amendment VII In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law. Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ______________________________________________ Here's the link that I copied and pasted from: Bill of Rights Text

05-03-2009, 06:16 PM	#5
Malynda Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 250	Re: The US Constitution It does make a difference to me whether or not our Constitution is scrapped. I feel that the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights are the way the U. S. A. should be. I think we all as a nation need to sit down and look at all the other amendments that have been added as well as our original documents and see what should stay and what should go though. I believe out first three documents cover it all if we really look at it but if it can be shown that something else would suit us better, then I'm all for it. As of now, The Constitution is still precious in my eyes. If anyone is interested, Noami Wolf discusses our founding documents and how far away we have gotten from them in her book/video The End of America and her book Give me Liberty. I've mentioned her a lot lately because she strikes a cord with the patriot in me, deeply.

05-03-2009, 07:04 PM	#7
Malynda Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 250	Re: The US Constitution Thank you for that link, seashore. I had not seen it yet. Let's have a town hall meeting. I see no reason why this cannot happen. I know things will probably be chucked at me for saying this but I think Obama might be up for this. All we have to do is pick a time and place (which can be physical and virtual) and hash this all out. Let's review these documents together. I'm down to start contacting people such as Ms. Wolf and see if we can't organize this. Last edited by Malynda; 05-04-2009 at 06:20 PM. Reason: my mistake, had seen the thread. info overload. apologies.

05-03-2009, 09:56 PM	#9
Malynda Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 250	Re: The US Constitution Now that would be awesome! I have seen no movements to rescind the Patriot Act but we all take issue with it.

05-04-2009, 04:27 PM	#12
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: The US Constitution Thank-you for the link. That's the sort of thing I had in mind. I'm not opposed to a world government. I'm not opposed to population reduction. I'm not opposed to underground bases. I'm not opposed to a global currency. What I am opposed to is a dictatorship...of any kind...human or otherwise. This places the human race at the back of the bus. I continue to like the idea of having the U.S. Constitution at the core of the United Nations and world government...with the various regions of the world as additional states...with all of the rights and responsibilities of the current states of the United States. This would not be nationalism or domination by the United States. It would simply be we the people of Earth...deciding our future in a rational and organized manner. We the people of Earth should not be slaves or lab rats. I simply want Earth to be run properly. Look at the last 100 years...and ask yourself if Earth has been run properly. I believe that at least 100 million people have died violent deaths during this period. The human race has been horribly jerked around and mistreated. I want the bs to stop...now.

05-04-2009, 05:25 PM	#14
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: The US Constitution Is the United States just the right size...right now? Is it too big? How big is too big? If Canada and Mexico were added to the United States...and under the U.S. Constitution...would this be too big...and unmanageable? There are very, very powerful forces at work to create a dictatorial world government...in complete opposition to the U.S. Constitution. This may be an all or nothing situation. I'm only bringing this proposition up because of the activities and goals of the New World Order. There may be no middle ground. The various nations would be nations within a nation. They would retain their cultures and religions. They would settle internal disputes and problems...their way. A centralized decentralization...to facilitate orderly, rational, and non-corrupt international cooperation would be the goal. The United Nations is currently an international joke. It could be transformed into something truly beneficial to the human race. We stand at a crossroads and a precipice...without a safety net. Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 05-04-2009 at 05:40 PM.

05-04-2009, 05:55 PM	#16
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: The US Constitution Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?