[historycircus]

Originally Posted by Fredkc

Hi E.W.O.;

I can offer my take on it, FWIW.

First, there are two conversations going on, and most have them all wrapped up into one. This centers around root cause. IMO the idea that this is man-made is pure hubris.

I happen to have grabbed a complete copy of the ClimatGate files when they came out. One of the things I can tell you is that it is such a huge volume of stuff, it will take a good 6-12 months for it to all get sorted out.

Something I did pull out, and process is a 1000-year listing of mean temps for the Northern, and Southern hemispheres, with a global avg figure as well. If you have MS-Office, or any way of opening up an Excel file, here you go:
http://fredsitelive.com/personal/Cur...000yrTemps.xls
Looks to me like, you could take someone from any one of those 1000 years, drop them in any other and they wouldn't feel a bit of difference (1-3 degrees tops, overall).

Next place I would direct you is the presentation by D. Wilcock given at the Camelot Conference. Go about 1 hr 15 min into it and he shows good evidence that it isn't just the earth. It is the entire solar system. That the source of this is electro-magnetic radiation coming from outside the solar system.

Side Note: If someone can explain how to stop that, by parking my BMW, I'm all for it.

If I were to speculate, the big reason we are not as much affected as the other planets, is our atmosphere acting as a buffer. (Smarter folk than me... jump in any time).

If you would like to read about that somewhere else, as well, then I direct you to this National Geographic story:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet´s recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist´s controversial theory.

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

In 2005 data from NASA´s Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars´s south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

Solar Cycles
Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun´s heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.

Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

So, no I can't "solve" it for you, but at least I can point you towards some of the things I've read on it.

For myself, I think mainstream science hasn't even begun to scratch at the real root cause of this, nor what to do. And I think all the "It's ALL our fault" religious talk going about isn't helping much.

I think a hard-headed effort at defining the cause would go much farther than putting us all in horse carts; But I'm that way.

Enjoy!
Fred

Great post Fred - nice to see you again. Loved your post and thanks for the links.

Thats the thing - from what I can gather from public and private sources, it is not just Earth experiencing the rise in tempreature. And the rise on other bodies in our solar system is roughly in line with what we are experiencing.

But, you can create the "greenhouse effect" in the labratory. The burning of fossil fuels can make a difference. The studies on Earth's carbon levels - exploited by Al Gore in his slideshow - are pretty scary; according to core samples from the arctic, we are now experiencing a spike in carbon levels unprecedented in the geologic record . . . .

Now, if you are not plugged into the "conspiracy" world, and willing to consider extraplanetary data in the debate - or worse, as is most probably the case, the extraplanetary numbers are not on your radar screen because the NBC Nighty News does not report stuff like that - the carbon-output-is-the-cause-of-our-problems scenario will make the most sense. You'll clap at the screw of a million new cfls into sockets . . . .

To the OP, I'd say we are doubly screwed. On the one hand, we have some sort of extraplanetary event contributing to the rise in Earth's tempreature, and on the other, greedy corporations and a fossil fuel addicted culture that is also contributing.

I applaud the fact that so many are now paying attention to the necessity of loving this planet.

But I am saddened by the notion that it may in fact be too little too late.

Just some thoughts . . . .