[Czymra]

Dakini, first and foremost, thank you for joining. We are too lonely out here.

Your post certainly helps guide this post as it defines intentions behind what I am asking. Although I never really had interest in the purpose or ends of the 'art of syphoning' I feel I should clarify some things.

Originally Posted by Dakini

I have read the thread...It seems you didn't get much satisfaction.

Did you miss the orgasmic entry of sun-toon?

Maybe the operative word here is "can" vs. another word, 'will.'
Because there may be people on the forum who know how to do this, but will they really share that knowledge on a forum? I didn't think so.

You're quite right, but I never expected those people to come forward. I seek to discuss this matter with other wanderers. As you say yourself, there is no ultimate learning or result from discussing things. My intention here is to build a model. More on that later.

And if they can do such a thing, they are highly developed adepts in either spiritual matters or magical matters. Which means it has probably taken them years and years of practice and devotion in order for this ability to come to fruition. So simply telling you what to read or giving you instructions over the internet won't confer that degree or give you the understanding you so seek.

See, this is something I can't wrap my head around. Put the magical matter to the side. I have no deeper interest in the people who are convinced that magic is 'the thing'. But those people that you refer to as being 'highly developed' are anything but spiritual in my eyes. If anyone deserves my anger it is them right beside the rest of ignorance's disciples.
I've heard of highly experienced martial artists, that can do the most astounding things, yet they're racist. I've heard of spiritual gurus that may levitate, yet they abuse their wives. If I allow myself to wholeheartedly judge a thing, then it is this hypocrisy.

Also, depending on what your definition of the word "spiritual" is, you will get many different kinds of answers. There is much discussed on PA forum that is spiritualistic; not so much that is deeply 'spiritual.'
In general, when one asks for a 'spiritual power' they are often asking for
some kind of psychic power - and this doesn't mean this is innately spiritual.

You're spot on of course. I myself wouldn't want to describe anything 'psychic' as spiritual but I must admit, it's another abused term. I suppose the flaw is within the 'spirit' possibly referring to 'ghostly' matters, as in etheric, astral and the like, rather as in my understanding of it, 'the essence' of man (or what we are).

Teachers show the student when the student is ready. Gaining power for power's sake isn't spiritual. So the teacher - the adept, will see that the student is not yet ready bc s/he only wants the power and not the Spirit. It is your intention, your practice, your devotion to Spirit which can possibly gain you spiritual - type 'power.' Spirit ultimately chooses who will gain "spiritual power," not the seeker.

This may be true, and yes, my teachers have appeared when I was ready, however they never held me back. True teachers never said 'no you can't do that yet'... they led me, they helped me and they warned me if need be... but they never dictated a program. It is these people that I am eternally grateful to, yes right, eternally.
No, these people aren't perfect, but they give it their all, and we should all do so.

It is completely possible to siphon energy in a non-spiritual way. Is this what you are really asking? Those skilled in occult and magical matters would be more willing to share and you can become a student of one of them and find those books on any bookshelf.

I am not interested in learning how to syphon other people for their energy. I'm sure I can come up with enough mind games all on my own if that was my intent. No, if I ask to understand the concept, it is so I can escape this loop.

Let me illustrate this closer here. We all heard of the story of the boats of the Spaniards out in the waters before America, yet the natives wouldn't be able to see the boats. If you don't know the story, maybe you can Google it, it's a prime example, and one I think we need a word for.
A word that describes the necessity of a concept that allows 'stuff' to be perceptible within the paradigm. We all have unlearned seeing, hearing, feeling, by having been forced to learn all that we see hear and feel now.
I wish to unlearn the learned again, so I may yet again return to my roots, to my essence. My current knowledge in fact is what builds the bars to my own prison. My understanding of the world right now is based on concepts that are entirely 3D. What is discussed on this forum then often is bunched upon our 3D understanding... and then we get all this 'research' blah that, as Astralwalker put it so nicely, is more based our our belief system than actuality.

Now I don't have the illusion that I can unlearn a concept by learning another, no. I rather hope to learn of a concept and let those ideas break down my understanding of the 3D. It is a matter of deconstructing things by, hopefully, opening up a new layer of experience that was unaccessible to me before, so that these new experiences can then in turn inform my paradigm.

Yet, at the moment I'm told that there are ship out there on the water. I'm squinting hard, but I don't see a thing. Tell me... what are ships? How do they work? They can do what? Float? Don't they have to move their arms and legs? I see! We have such too! Now I see them! But they are so large! We never had such large ones? How comes they can still float, they must be heavy!

So, as you can see due to the wonderful combined effort of sun-toon's and mine we're approaching a model. Is it right? Probably not, but there is some way of envisioning what's going on. Some way that allows me to grasp what is being discussed without just saying "yeah, they take energy alright, and then they put it somewhere else".
I know that no one can prove it, but you don't need to prove me that ships float to explain to me some of the principles. One could even use a parable or an allegory to get at it. Anything that works!

The very clear thing about your question is that you have written it - and asked it - and then asked it here - How can Spiritual energy be (had) through attention. To me, this is a good sign. It starts with the question, and with your intention and practice, it may unfold within you over time.

Well, it does unfold indeed. And this is where it gets interesting as we had different kinds of syphoning here. In fact, as I alluded to in my lengthy post that obviously scared some people away, when talking about syphoning, one must account for all energetic transference. That means, how does energy float at all? Does it curse, does it beam, is it left behind? Does it manifest something that's left behind?
This interfaces with the question of how to use one's energy most efficiently, Tao comes to mind, but even the matter of being stressed or not, being tense or not, being open to the stream or not.

Why is it that I can feel some people's energy as they are close to me and other's not? Is it my rejection or lack of acceptance? Is it more pragmatic like, we are or the same polarisation? Do we not have energy levels that are different enough from each other? All these things never seem to be discussed! It's just 'yeah all is energy'. Right.

Spiritual seekers - those on that path will confess that one may pray, meditate for years, read, ask, seek, seek, seek and not ever come to know Spirit. Because the control of this experience is not in our hands. The Mystics - those who have had the experience of The Divine have written about it - and the paradoxical essence of its thorny path.

Yes, yes. This is most frustrating and the frustration is probably both, our driver and teacher. I am rather convinced that so far, I'm more interested in the thrill of seeing spirits or feeling an aura. I tell them "I'll put it to good use." but I don't know what that use is yet. I am constantly trying to 'see' things rather then letting go. Yes it's difficult. As you say...

Those seekers on the path to The Divine who find themselves progressing will come to acquire spiritual gifts and power - and each of them, if they are bent on one thing and one Thing only - The Divine - will be willing to give up any and all spiritual power if and when that time comes to be closer to The Divine. Just because one has acquired these psychic abilities, makes him/her no closer to Spirit - as you have said.

What strikes me is that things aren't shared. Now with most people on this board, I am simply not attuned with all the stories that develop from meditation. Maybe it's just hard to describe. I can understand that. However, a friend of mine said that most people that are really advanced don't share their 'amazing stories' so they don't frustrate others. He gave me an example: "What if someone who meditated one year suddenly got the most amazing trips, and another who meditated 40 years got almost nothing...? It's like talking about 'how great sex was' to somebody that doesn't have any."

I can see the point, okay, but really... if those people are spiritually advanced I'm not frustrated at all. I only get frustrated when someone tries to tell me how great they are by conveying these stories. It's another case of 'fake spirituality' (or potency for the other example).

If I'm motivated to learn something, and I see someone else do it better, I am sped up doubly by seeing how they do it, and saying to myself "Wow! I wanna do that. Let's give it a try!"
Admittedly, this is easier with 3D matters that are actually tangible. But maybe I can entrain my focus to another person's focus, and thus s/he could guide me, as to them as a more developed person, things have actually become tangible?

This happens to me with 3D matters, but on the spiritual side, it seems to be all crooks.
So it's back to figuring this out myself.... with your help, sun-toons, 777, oedilroed, anybody that will bother to throw a piece in, whether it is with good or ill intention, I do not care, for those who are willing to grow, will grow.

I merely hope that we that we are here at Avalon, share this, and learn together from each other. I'm much more interested in that than worrying about the next law being passed.

Excuse me if I offended anybody with this, I try to speak from my heart but not all is pure... yet.
Czymra


My humble two cents.

Interesting questions, as always, Czymra.[/QUOTE]