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-   -   Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants. (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21077)

swordsmith 03-17-2010 07:25 PM

Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
This is an anecdote told before about Gurdjieff and his circle of students.
In a smallish group of students there is always somebody who does not fit in, seems to rub people up the wrong way or just plain old challenges the status quo. Many members of the group secretly and even vocally complained about just one such guy, he irritated the cr@p out of just about everyone in the group. During one session the guy decided he'd finally had enough and left. Everyone was happy and thought the chief would be pleased, in fact he was horrified and spent a considerable amount of time and effort to track the guy down and GET HIM BACK. He returned and berated the group exclaiming this guy was irreplaceable and if they did not have him he would have to pay someone to fulfill his function ( some even say he DID pay the guy).

So was this guy an "agent", simply the repressed shadow of the group, or did he perhaps simply serve the function of reminding people of the nature of duality?

The shadow here is indeed the elephant in the room, and one people are not at all comfortable with, in fact so many here even deny they HAVE one. And a lot of collective energy on this forum has gone into trying to love it into submission, with disastrous results.

Some speak of this place having become like a playground. I can only speak for myself and say jeeze I never got to spend nearly enough time in the playground so whats not to like? It's all in the manner of how we play, and believe me, play is just about the highest activity a human can do, its like LOVE, it comes only from the heart and its totally pointless.

Others say OH STOP IT!!! Not wanting people to engage, trying to shut people up saying " stop with the negative threads", well helloooo don't click, don't look and DONT CONTROL. End of problem. After all , it is just people communicating, with passion and that sometimes gets a little rough.
Where does the scary energy come from? REPRESSION .
People wanting other people to NOT engage is repression of the worst order and the result is a kink in the hose that will BLOW, and indeed it has.

Uncomfortable communication is sometimes the most valuable, social niceties sometimes have a blanding effect and rub the corners off what might be a good debate and opportunity to experience a mentality unlike your own.

Some people called these threads with percieved negative expression a distraction. Actually I was focused, fascinated even, recently throughout in a way I never felt here before . Mostly because I sensed something needing to be brought to the light.
The Thuban thing indeed kicked something off, but I never read it. What I did read was the energy change and that really shockingly went overdrive into C O N T R O L.
There seems to have been a missed opportunity to examine what happened and more imoportantly WHY by CERTAIN ADMIN trying to suppress an HONEST answer, so a BIG monster was created. Why deny it? Why didn't people want to let it run its course? Did it have too much power ? Who's egos at the top got hurt?

Interesting Celine post's a button to push, without telling why. Yes, buttons were pushed, big time. Course that could not happen if people were either naked ( and buttonless) or had had the sense to realize that was in fact, the gift, an opportunity for accelerated learning . Your best teachers are often the ones you would prefer to resist, but it will keep coming back and many already know this to their cost.

and that's basically the benefit of forums in a nutshell ( if you ask me forums ARE a nutshell).

So whats just so wrong with that? It's only people talking, taking a risk and exposing our differences. No need to control... or is there ,and that's the question burning in my mind right now....

I'd like to thank all the people I learned from here, it was invaluable, and some of it I even liked: wink2:
but its over, and that's good because it's shiva time baby , just as it should be.

I'd also like to thank Boober once more for helping me to clarify just what what was really bothering me so much that I had to keep at it . I'd like to nominate Boober the Spiritual father of Project Avaloony. Boober of the lone canoe society .
so, for once I will say Namaste and really mean it.

suckers................................. just kidding :boat:

and a little soundtrack ;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaNjCal26CM

swordsmith 03-17-2010 07:38 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
not sure why this posted twice somebody X one please?

hollylindin 03-17-2010 07:52 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
Since this one is longer, I'll repost. :)


Elephants are one of my main totem animals, SS. Interestingly enough, when I really started delving into all this stuff (I've always been very spiritual and interested in what's going on behind the scenes, but the last three years have been a MADHOUSE of information!), the literal elephant started showing up everywhere I looked! So much that I couldn't ignore it anymore - NOR the message of the PROVERBIAL elephant it was expressing to me.

This is a great anecdote. I definitely see the importance of the duality - one cannot truly exist without its opposite to help define it. Perhaps this man was a duality, and perhaps he was more than that - perhaps a reminder? A reminder to all those of what they're trying to achieve? After all, if EVERYONE in the group were loving, sentient beings, there would be nothing to achieve! In one of the verses of the Tao, it wisely states that "a bad man is a good man's job", and perhaps that's what this man was? A reminder and a job for the Lightworkers, those who only worked in love and positivity, of the group?

I won't comment on other posters (or moderators or administrators.) besides you (since we're talking, so to speak. ), but I couldn't get through the Thuban material myself, so I can relate. I read a few paragraphs, did NOT resonate with it at all, and went on my merry way. If someone got something positive and affirming out of it, that is SO wonderful, but just as it wasn't meant for you, it wasn't meant for me. We aren't less because we don't "get" it, and we aren't more because we're "above" it. It just is what it is. :)

The Thuban thread DEFINITELY started something rocking! Seemingly negative, yes, but one must knock down the old house to build the new one. There's a real beauty and symmetry in destruction - not in the havoc it wreaks, but in the opportunities it presents for new futures to unravel and present themselves. "Power and chaos!" as Zoot would say. (Only my friends here who watched/watch "The Tribe" would get that. :P)

A little off-topic, but . . . interesting how the earthquakes around the globe and the meltdown here at Avalon seemed to coincide with each other. Perhaps the earthquakes helped to cause havoc among us? Or perhaps OUR HAVOC helped to create the earthquakes? Something to think about, either way.

So I appreciate that particular thread and all the craziness that came along with it. Granted, I didn't post the entire time 'cause I just didn't wanna be a part of that, but I'm starting to see a bit of the old Avalon shining through the cracks, and that means something to me. This has always been a safe haven for me, and it's always a bit of a struggle when you see warriors coming over the horizon to take your haven over! But in a sense, those who bring Light "won" a particular "war" here on Avalon - and it was a war against ourselves. The dark side tried to get us to fight the dark instead of just simply BRINGING THE LIGHT, and some of us fell for it - but SOME of us saw it for what it was (another moment containing "this, too, shall pass".), left it alone and let it run its course, and stayed emotionally out of it. I think there's a lot to be said about that, and I think this is STILL a special place - a safe haven. Because during certain points, we bandied together and stood strong, and that counts.

You're right, SS - sometimes, the best epiphanies and bits of truth come out of DISCOURSE and not harmony! It is in these moments of discourse where we can truly find ourselves. After all, when we ask God (the Source, our Higher Self, Shiva, Allah, etc.) for courage, we are not given courage but instead a SITUATION IN WHICH TO BE COURAGEOUS. And the Thuban thread, particularly, was for quite a few of us, I think, a way for us to find a bit of ourselves again.

I personally find the distraction not in the posts that were posted (not even the seemingly negative ones.) but in those waving their arms and saying, "Distraction! Distraction!". These people expressing their theory that the conversations were "distractions" were coming from a multitude of places, and I see that. Some probably feared the conversation, some probably feared the thread itself in question, some probably just wanted the drama to continue, some probably ate up the darkness and were trying to fill their ego, etc. But perhaps it's time to let it all go? After all, the proverbial house has already been knocked down. Why don't we shake hands, call a truce, and start building a new one?

Thanks so much for your post, Swordsmith. It was filled with beautiful questions and, whether you can see it or not, many answers! I appreciate this kind of conversation - it will lead us back to where we were before it all happened, albeit a little more wiser, a little more patient, and a lot more loving.


swordsmith 03-17-2010 08:05 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
thanks for " getting " it Holly, especially on the arm waving distraction merchants .

hollylindin 03-17-2010 08:10 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

Originally Posted by swordsmith (Post 258695)
thanks for " getting " it Holly, especially on the arm waving distraction merchants .

:lol3: We gotta stick together, SS! Now more than ever.


mntruthseeker 03-17-2010 08:52 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

Originally Posted by hollylindin (Post 258697)
:lol3: We gotta stick together, SS! Now more than ever.


Thanks to both of you for putting it quite nicely. You didnt point fingers or judge anyone for what or how they felt

I got it too.......and I did learn a lesson but it took me awhile to digest all of it.

the truth is hard to face thats for sure

what a trip that was

swordsmith 03-17-2010 09:22 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
some are still on the trip, why not they've got their baggage ready packed...

back at ya Minnie :wink2: cheers

mntruthseeker 03-17-2010 09:25 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
yeah well, so be it, I hope they continue to enjoy it

I feel wonderful, refreshed and ready for something more interesting :naughty:

hollylindin 03-17-2010 09:29 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker (Post 258728)
Thanks to both of you for putting it quite nicely. You didnt point fingers or judge anyone for what or how they felt

I got it too.......and I did learn a lesson but it took me awhile to digest all of it.

the truth is hard to face thats for sure

what a trip that was


I think all the judging was what got us into all the drama and anger and fear to begin with. Not that it didn't turn out fabulously, but still! :D

Neale Donald Walsch's latest book is "When Everything Changes, Change Everything". Everything really has changed here at Avalon; now it's time for us to change our perception of it, how we relate to it, and where we stand with it. And then we'll make our decisions regarding Avalon based on that. 'Cause if there's one constant, it's that everything is always changing, right?

After all this, after learning what you probably needed to learn, after going through all the "bad" stuff, do you still love Avalon, Truth? Are you hoping to be getting an invite into Avalon 2.0? Or are you thinking on bowing out gracefully and searching for the next safe haven? (I have a few suggestions on sites, if anyone is interested. :))


hollylindin 03-17-2010 09:29 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker (Post 258752)
I feel wonderful, refreshed and ready for something more interesting :naughty:

It makes me really happy to hear that!


mntruthseeker 03-17-2010 09:57 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
Thank you Hollylindin

Thats truly what it was all about "judging"

Judgement is not a part of Soul and I had to learn to let it go to feel as great as I do

I think this lesson pulled more people in then they could ever had imagine. I know I was quite surprised. Even those that took a little siesta came back to keep the game going

LOL And to start up new little spats of their own. It certainly did effect all of us in one way or another. Even Abrax, I'm sure

As far as going to A2, I thought I wanted to but not so sure anymore. Anyhow, I did get an invite.

I used to come for the information only and think that will be the extent of my visits there. I enjoyed reading 777s, The looking Glass and The Watchers threads and a few others.

So if I see them there, I will continue reading their work but will go back to lurking as I did pretty much the first year here.

How about you ?

hollylindin 03-17-2010 10:08 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
Hmm, I'm not sure! I haven't yet gotten an invite; I've never been a huge poster, just mainly a lurker. I was happy when this place went off subscription ('cause there were a few threads here and there that I wished to be a part of.), but I still don't post that often. Not unless I see something that I really resonate with.

So, if I get an invite . . . who knows? Maybe I WOULD join, just to see how things are going in Avalon 2.0. There's a lot of hyperbole connected to this upcoming forum, a lot of negative assumptions about it. It's probably best to go see for myself and see if it sticks! Really, I could always leave later if I'm not connecting with what I'm seeing from the members there. We'll just hafta see. :)

It's interesting 'cause there's another thread I'm posting in right now (the "What Sign Are You?" thread, started by Angel In Disguise.), and Harper just finished saying something wise that I think really pertains here. Harper said that Life gives us a "mixed message" - that we hafta give everything passionately of ourselves, yet remain an observer, a witness, and not to get too involved.

This is how I felt about the Thuban thread (and a few of the other angry/fearful ones as of late.) - if I REALLY "NEED" to post, I'm gonna be loving and supportive and not get emotionally involved. Give everything, but remain an observer, you know?

Do you have any other sites you may frequent in lieu of "losing" this one, if that's the path you choose to take? I personally love the Maya Forum (http://www.maya-12-21-2012.com) and lightworkers.org, but those are basically the only places I go to. http://ascensiontalk.ning.com is quite great, too - lots of loving, supporting souls there. :)


mntruthseeker 03-17-2010 10:30 PM

Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.
Thanks for the links

I read David Ickes forum and belong to a few groups there. I really like the people there as I have known for a long time

There are many groups I follow on facebook but one friend in particular I follow.

We mostly email each other as you can't say too much on facebook but her blog is out of this world (literally) I put her in the same league as Ashayana Deane and I often wonder if she would do an interview with Kerry but I never asked. She has with others and had her own radio station for a long time. She works with ETs from the 8th Dimension and lately she is saying more about her life which. Just talking about her tells me that there is a new message that I must go read.

She has written books and her first book is bing made into a movie in Hawaaii, and being helped by Colin Andrews. I think its great as I got a signed copy of this book about 15 years ago or so. I'm really proud of her and man she has been working on me all this time. :naughty: my mind was closed for way too long.

When I get to her blogs, I am led to others.

you're right there is alot of great information coming from PA & PC.

I wish Lauren had a forum but I think it would wear her too thin with all she has going on now a days.

Hey, just read her message and I dont want to put it here because I didnt ask her, but you can find it here


I will certainly check your links out myself....thanks again for sharing them, they sound great

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