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Gun Protection
With everything that is being discussed and the potential upcoming changes and events that are going to occur, would you recommend purchasing a gun or a weapon of some sorts.....or do you feel it would be pointless. I have been considering this with the current economy and news of changes occuring.
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If a martial law scenario were to happen you would not want a gun. I got some pretty good advice from a martial law survival guide and it basically said to forget about guns and get 17% pepper spray from the net. In South America when people were found with guns they were shot with no questions asked.
The pepper spray is very strong and I think a good alternative. |
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What was the name of the martial law survivors guide or book. do you have a link you could share with everyone? Would you recommend someone buys a a tazer gun?
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personally I think you should consider getting a rifle or shotgun that could be used for hunting primarily and defensive protection second. if things deteriorate into the worst case scenario you will not be able to acquire food through the traditional channels, and there will be some desperate folks out there who's primary objective will be to take from those that have no ability to resist. I really hope it does not come to that but I think it is prudent to prepare for that scenario.
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The only thing standing between us and the government is the fact that we have a Constitutional right to own guns. This is most definitely a plus for us.
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The main reason our four fathers made an amendment to Let every american carry a gun is to protect us from the powers that be. In other words They (the four fathers) Knew that there would come a time that great power would be givin to people with very bad intentions. More less to protect youeself from ANY person invading your home or proporty!! And The constitution is already in the bucket so to speak because not every american can own a gun ....like me..I have a felony , and that means i DO NOT have the right to protect myself ...Isnt that just fan-frikin-tastic ???? The felony is alchohol related BTW....Yea..I love my country...
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If there would be chaos, you would optimize your survival chances by having a rifle and having trained a lot with it. Choose one with metal sights [the ones bolted to the rifle at the top front and the second closer to you], and a good scope, so that if your scope gets damaged you would have an extra chance. Pick ammo type after what is normal in your area and cheap, so you can buy lots. Never knows when the world is normal again. By choosing a popular ammo amongst other people you can also take their ammo if you need to! [I would only do that if they were dead, gone or bartered with me. One have to uphold morale].
Now, by rifle I do not mean the AR-15 thing, even though they would be good in close combat. Never having hold one I guess they are heavier and more troublesome at long distances, not to mention the magazine that sticks out so unconviniently. But there are many fans of these, especially in the US. Most normal hunting rifles have small magazines that would let you take down your target anyway, and half automatic ones are around. The normal ones are more reliable than machine guns, and easier to maintain. Also, having not so many but enough shots to take out big animals, you would not spray to much ammo on them, but learn to consider each shot carefully. Monotony: If guns were to be banned for the civil, good for us really. Less people to think about with guns out there! But you [and I] would hide our guns away in a VERY safe place, perhaps out in the bush, where chances of survival would be best. With a small team of course, and hideout. We are stronger together, but not too many. Morphious: Letting almost everyone own almost any gun in America for "self defense" sounds strange to me. Are not the ones you defend against robbers, criminals and crazy youth, who loves that the guns are so easy to get hold of? Most ones who are shot never carry the guns on themselves anyway, even if they are in their own house, making it pointless, because it is so easy to take civilians by surprise! America has one of the highes murder rates in the world. That is not self defence. Look to Canada, where they are not so afraid to lock their doors at night. Let handguns be banned for the safety of all! And also, the american government [and many more] don't want the best for their people. That is why we are here. They won't be bothered that their peoples are decimating, when it is mostly the poor people that gets shot. BTW, I have never owned a gun but very soon will :biggrin2: [legally] I have shot very little with hunting rifles but I know they are the right kind for this environment in Europe at least. And I love to read about the subject, finding peoples experiences all over the net. Check out www.survivalistboards.com for almost any info you need for practical survival. Edited some grammars |
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If there is martial law, the US gov will collect all firearms by force, look at new orleans, they had lists of gun owners, sought them out and took their weapons.
Are you willing to kill 12 to 30 US soldiers commanded to take your weapons? Are you capable to do so? I am sure if you resisted from your home, they would move in a tank or 2 and level your home. Hell, they could do it from 10 miles away. Hide your weapons well, they will enter your home by force and take whatever they want. Some soldiers my disent, but the rest will follow orders blindly. |
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If they would want to take weapons at all in war or the like, even just hunting types, you could do several things to evade "legally" theft.
1. You could report your [extra] weapon "stolen" [rather long before you know about chaos] and hide it somewhere extremely safe, preferably in the deep woods. A friend could steal it for you, giving you a chance to have a good alibi. 2. Get an unregistered weapon and hide it. It is good to have friends with contacts.. 3. "Run to the hills, run for your life" before they come to you. Staying in a populated area is a deathtrap anyway, which most people live in. Never underestimate people in a desperate situation, even those you know. As I live in Norway I think this never would happen, but you never know either. I hope the day will never come, even though I find it fun to organize and spreading the word! |
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Hi, Folks:
I've been reading this with interest, and thanks for all your thoughts and contributions. I suggest the best way to approach this is as described by many Martial Arts masters, in various ways over the centuries. It's as applicable now as it was in China 3,000 years ago. [my paraphrase] * If you use your weapon, then you've already lost the fight. * A real warrior is a peacemaker... and always knows when to walk away. And, from Gandhi: * Be the change you want to see in the world. For the record, these are our values at Projects Camelot and Avalon and are shared by thousands of people who write to us. We don't want to curtail any intelligent and informed discussion and there's no implied criticism of anyone here. But the above is my $.02 worth. Very best to all, Bill |
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Just another tool in the well rounded kit, and another
skill to master. Important point this; your gear won't save you but your skill set might. At my local gun shop all the employees open carry holstered sidearms. The message is clear without saying a word. In keeping with Bill's statement about being forced to use one. Another point. Never forget that weapons do not protect your food. Food protects your weapons. Regarding confiscation. Refer to the point above and develop your caching skills. If they come to my house I will be happy to give them the single shot .22 chipmunk in the gun cabinet ;) |
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In Australia we had all our guns taken away from us.
All it took was a crazy Tasmanian walking into a resort and killing a few score people. We handed them over willingly. When you Americans get forced to hand in your guns... game over. I agree that having a gun during martial law will be v e r y d a n g e r o u s Then again I wouldn't want to be in a anarchic America without one. In Australia its different. No guns. Guns are for the criminals, police and a few clubs who they let still let own guns. I'm for gun ownership. And I do worry about brutes roaming the land when things get desperate. I like the ideas presented above. In Australia I fear invading Indonesian gangs when there is no longer a navy to keep them out. That terrifies me. In Australia you can't buy a gun. So I have no option. I will learn how to make a hunting bow. |
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I appreciate everyone's input here, and it all makes great and logical sense. I try to stay off the grid as much as possible and being on a list of being a gun owner, is not what I want. Eyes are opening wide, thanks again.
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One of my favorite quotes...
An eye for an eye makes the world go blind - M. Gandhi |
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There are always options. Always. Look what your pommie cousin has done where they want to outlaw butter knives... http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/homemadeammo.shtml When the need arises the tools will be there. Or as Gary Ray Hickman, former special forces medic, is so fond of saying, "The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But when push comes to shove I'll be shooting what you're shooting in the morning..." |
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Luke 22:36 "Sell your cloak to buy a sword"
The most important ammendment to the US constitution is the 2nd.....without it, the others do not matter. Throughout history, gov'ts have feared an armed public. For survial, have a .22 for food and a 12 ga pump for defense. If you think the gov't is going to knock on your door to confiscate your firearms, make sure they and you are not there. You can't fight the gov't, but you can defend yourself against others....disappear if you can.....02c |
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I live in the middle of Wyoming, where 90% of the people have much more than one gun. In fact, you are allowed to just walk around with your gun on your hip, if you have one of the easy to obtain liscences. If there ever was marshall law, which I believe couldnt happen because it would be our brothers and sisters who joined the armed foreces who come to inforce such a thing. The simple people who work for the government are not going to physically take over the entire country that they themselves grew up in. What would be a real concern is if their was ever a food shortage for thousands of reasons; financial collapse, increased security, war, the honey bee's, just to name a few. Then all these people with guns would use them to rob their neighbors. Starving families would probably go rob their rich morman neighbor who has a bunch of food in his basement before they would ever let themselves starve. The only way around it, or the best idea I have, would be just to take off the the mountans and try to live off the land. Either way I woldnt recommend trying to survive around a whole village of starving desperate rednecks and gangsters with guns. We are going to have to come togeather as one and put our guns down.
LOVE |
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Great posts.
After Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc., grabbed all the guns it didn't work out too well for the citizens. I like the idea of having a gun or two for self defense. Not a big fan of FEMA camps or RFID chips. The Goobermint does not have my best interest at heart. Caching weapons and ammo is important. My pick would be an AK-47. They always work, no matter what. Ammo for the AK is still relatively cheap, stack it deep. Buy a lot of extra magazines too. Get trained with one. The value of good training could be priceless. |
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Originally I thought the same thing. But this Martial Law Survival Guide I've got really convinced me that having a gun will be worthless against trained, martial law officers. You might get one or two, but probably not, and what good would that really do in the large scheme.
If a resistance were to develop, plenty of guns would be available, but otherwise they are going to be useless. You'll have 2 or 3 days to turn in your guns, and if you don't and they are found, you'll be killed. I know we all like to think of ourselves as Rambo, but it is just fantasy to believe that 1 person with a shotgun or AK is going to beat back the gov't. If a martial law scenario comes, you do not want a gun. I tried to upload the document I referenced but it is 350kb and the site only allows very small uploads. |
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You won't beat back the government and will likely die trying. But that, my friend, is the point. When they come for you, unless you are not there you will die anyway. Do not go quietly! Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his Gulag Archipelago warns us not to go quietly. Do not make it easy. It will give them pause if you take up whatever at hand and attempt to rearrange their outlook with it. It is intimidating when the victim refuses to cooperate. This cannot be overstated. You may be lost, so do it for your children, your neighbors, and your countrymen. Do it for them. If you are lost anyway, go with a bang rather than a whimper. A free man may be killed, but not subjugated. We have done research on this topic. Read about the resistance in World War II. Read about the forest Jews of Germany and the magnificent Warsaw Ghetto uprising. It brings a tear just thinking about it. Done properly you will inspire those who follow. We remember Sophie Scholl and Masha Bruskina. Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya shouted, "You can't hang all 190 million of us," just before she died! We remember them. Who remembers their executioners! The best way to avoid a punch is to not be there. But if you are there, make it a memorable occasion. |
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If you've heard David Wilcock's "Science of Peace" or are familiar with the Trancendental Meditation studies or many other studies done in the past, violence declines SHARPLY when groups of people get together and meditate on peace. Imagine if we could organize millions of people to commit to doing that every day for even 10 minutes. It is possible with the internet and on sites like this with a more awakened visitor than most. In any case, I support whatever anyone wants to do to resist and more importantly than anything is that we are unified as the future approaches. Be well all! Blessings, Jeff |
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It is fun to see all the different views on this :)
Monotony: The opinion from the survival guide of yours I do not like, looking like it's influenced by some government funded money. Removing guns from civilians would seem to serve their interests, and it probably would. But all the millions of patriots that would defend their country with their guns, if they were at war? It's a free underground army! Having a natural disaster situation would be worse, with more helpless people killing others. It would serve you and not be a danger for anyone if you lived far from everyone else under a crisis. If you have to defend [not against the army of course], you have at least tried to avoid it! And after that it is up to you to help build a new world. ________________________________________________ What I tried to say in the last post is that a gun is just another tool for aquiring food, like a fishing rod really! At least they don't take those.. But everyone sees guns as evil tools now because they have been misused in terrible wars and for murders. We all need food in dark times, and when there's plenty of food living in the woods you would not harvest the nature as we have always done? Is there a big difference of hunting it with rifle or bow [the rifle being the best shot of course], and eating a self-slaughtered deer or shopping it at the mall? If some are die-hard vegitarians I would understand their choice, but it will not help them survive a long crisis, making their bodies weak too [losing B12 + more] over the years being selective about food. I tried to live as a vegitarian once, it did not work well since it takes much skill and info to do it the "right" way and me being a quite helpless young cook :bleh: I actually REALLY love the idea that no living life should be exploited as food or in other ways, but the world have not come far enough.. Improving rights for all and especially fur animals are extremely important though. May Peace last, as fragile as it is |
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"Speak softly and carry a big stick" as they say.
I don't think the martial law scenario would play out in the US. That may be a bullet point (no pun intended there ;)) on the master plan, but I think impractical to implement. I bet they would encounter fierce resistance/guerrilla style war if they tried and abandon that approach rather quickly. Best they could do, would be to 'quarantine' certain areas to prevent mass movement of people as discussed in other threads. I think most of the rank and file would simply desert and return home in that scenario to protect their own families, rather than spilling the blood of their countrymen. I believe the majority of the US military would not follow unlawful orders to confiscate firearms and detain civilians, which would be treasonous in my view. The courts have indicated the New Orleans PD overstepped their authority during Katrina in those confiscations which violated both federal and state constitutions, and agreed to return the firearms (http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=gunreturn) alot of help that is when your only form of self defence is removed, but it is important to note the precedent has been established, and that scenario should not repeat itself. I also believe various elements within the US military would not stand for a martial law scenario, leading to infighting within their own ranks. |
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Hey everyone,
I was pondering the same dilemma myself just recently. I, like many of my country men and women, would be aware that there were massive gun control measures put in place in Australia after the Port Arthur massacre, ie Martin Bryant. There seems to be a pile of evidence to suggest that Bryant, in fact, was not the shooter on the scene. There have been many discrepancies in the accounts of the survivors and various witnesses and there are many small but important details that just blow away the entire Bryant official story as put out by the media. My point here is that I see the entire Bryant episode as a catalyst to remove guns/weapons from the general public, leaving the majority of Australians unarmed and defenseless. I see it as being a deliberate ploy by the government at that time and the Port Arthur massacre (IMO) is definitely not without an alternative agenda. My sincere condolences to anyone reading who was affected by the Port Arthur incident and please rest assured I do not mean to offend or desecrate the memories of all loved ones who died that day. For a very informative article regarding the Port Arthur massacre and the trail of suss evidence, have a look at the following link: http://www.nexusmagazine.com/index.p...d=27&Itemid=71 There are 3 parts of the article, all of which are available for viewing on the Nexus Magazine website. |
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Jerry |
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If you want to know what owning a gun is like during martial law, watch this video of what happened during Katrina
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4 I've often pondered what I will do faced with this situation. Die on my feet, or live on my knees.:lightsabre: |
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"pretty good"? LOL WOW, check your violent crime statistics there bloke. Violent crime in the UK has skyrocketed since your masters saw fit to disarm you. I feel sorry for ya....honestly. |
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Has anyone read Patriots: Surviving The Upcoming Collapse? When martial law is declared, I'll be more concerned about the looters than the government.
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Then I shall die a hero's death in the resistance, better a tank than a gas chamber or worse. Ill take as many as I can with me that would violate the sacred rights of all human beings. Dont think I cant or wont. |
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I feel America is in a somewhat unique position. A big part of this global drama is being played out there, and it's precisely BECAUSE Americans have maintained their rights to own and bear arms that the game is not already over.
The US military can never disarm America without her consent. That would be the most lopsided battle in history. Don't be afraid. Don't plan on using your weapons. But don't give them up. Your possession of personal arms in America might be the only thing PREVENTING martial law. And the PTB have been trying to remove that obstacle for many years. |
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And recently the Supreme Court upheld that law.
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When all hell breaks loose, and after a short period of time there is no more food to buy anywhere, no medicines, no gas, and your neighbor sees that at the end of the street, there is someone with a generator, food and supplies (meaning 'you' because your prepared ahead of time) guess what is going to happen to you, THE BROTHERLY LOVE GOES OUT THE WINDOW, people panic!. This why we need to have a PLAN. Don't wait until is too late!!. From the Heart! |
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One look at my avatar (is that the correct term?) and you can plainly see where I fall on this issue. Don't get me wrong, I loathe the redneck machismo attitude that often comes along with gun rights - the "cold dead fingers" rhetoric. But let me make myself very clear. If it comes down to it, and the PTB do what many of us think they are capable of doing, I will protect myself and my family. If there are 20 of them, and the odds are against me, SO BE IT. I will not go to the trains. I will not give up my protection. Period.
If they try to find my weapons, they will not find them. If a situation arises where I need to have my weapons on my person, then they will not find ME. If you choose to give up without a fight then that is your right as a human being, but those who have fought for the freedom of the human spirit throughout history will be rolling over in their graves. I own guns for these reason, in this order. 1. For hunting for food. This will be imperative in the sort of environment societal chaos would bring. 2. For personal protection against individuals who would seek to take from me during such a crisis. I would NEVER advocate the taking of a human life except for self defense, and someone stealing my children's sustenance is one of those cases. 3. For protection against those who would seek to round up me and my family. The bottom line is that it's time, folks. It's time to stand up for what you believe, and if you die in the process, then SO BE IT. Many of us believe that what comes next is better. Live that premise. You cannot "spread love" from your grave. |
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I honestly believe if anyone wants an acurate depection of what life will be like after the collapse they should look no further than the Argentine collapse of 2001. A man by the name of FerFal has posted numerous observations from living day to day in the 3rd world.
His views on the inportance of handguns and personal protection are the best I've ever read. This is not from speculation or from some far away battlefield but what he has to deal with every day. http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...1;t=044387;p=0 http://www.ferfal.blogspot.com/ |
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You are absolutely right Strayslack [or Mr. Glock], we can not and should not live without at least one firearm! Food and defense will be extremely important in a situation we would never imagine.
Please take a look at our survival group here at Avalon; The Darkside of the Moon: www.projectavalon.net/forum/group.php?groupid=9 Without guns in a crisis: = No relevant chance to defend, even if it is only scaring others away = No relevant chance to hunt food of all sorts = No relevant chance to feed yourselves or family in lasting crisis = No relevant chance to live outside civilisation = No relevant chance to uphold life = No relevant chance to spread the word and let people wake up = No relevant chance to see what the world will become afterwards If you are placed in a prison camp there will be plenty of such chances, but take your precautions never to get there! It's never to late to start with guns training folks. I never thought of guns in the first place either. Tools are here for your use. |
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Interesting topic, theorising (is that a word?) a scenario that might or might not happen. Nobody really knows what is gonna happen, guess that's the bottom line.
On this forum, even though there are more advanced incarnations here than in many other settings, spirits are on different levels. And in another setting, the regular joe, I THINK (theory), is more likely to panic, and be in a state of survival that will be of the dark polarity - me, me, me, at any cost. Sometimes I end my participation in certain situations, and that's MY appropiate response to that situation. Other times I equally muster up what is thrown at me. I think of myself as friendly, but I'm not afraid of defending myself. Now. I don't have a gun, and I don't plan to get one. Too lazy, too much hassle, but I'm sure I could find something to use for defensive measures if I felt the need. I think if there is something to be learnt about dark domination such as wars etc, the dark doesn't give a sod about any fluffy words and.. love. I mean, really? If anything, I think it's percieved as weakness and an easy prey. As for they who refuse to defend themselves in such a weird event, that's their experience and way of doing things, and I'm glad there are different roads to choose, to progress at our chosen tempo. I like it that way. :) Worst case scenario, exit earth, enter astral and beyond. I (not the body) can live with that. :-) I don't know how I'll handle unknown scenarios, but as of now, I don't feel fear about this subject, and I think I'll be just fine whatever happens. |
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Concerning the implementation of martial law, I think there are some glaringly evident points that aren't being considered. The PTB are trying desperately to maintain their control of the masses, and many of us call them pitiful and are assured of our eventual victory as their plans fail. But lets not underestimate them. They had to have taken into account that American soldiers would have a hard time locking up and killing their own countrymen. That's why there are UN troops already here. If they specifically employ a military force that doesn't even speak the language (in many cases), they can tell their soldiers any number of things that will make their task easier to stomach - and most of them won't be able to even have a conversation with the people they're imposing that rule upon. Furthermore, all means of communication will have been taken over. That means that those soldiers won't even have the opportunity to converse with their family members, clergymen, whoever they look to for truth. That means our guys possibly in another country conducting similar operations, again - not even speaking the language of the land that they're occupying. An all-out resistance movement would be futile, I think. .22s against tanks and body-armored troops?
I feel that firearms are important, but not as a stay-in-the-city scenario. I think it's commonly acknowledged that a disruption in food supply would make things in the city pretty hairy in short order. That's why I want to get as far away from it as possible. They'll have their hands full with whatever city they're trying to dominate. Small groups in the sticks are going to be small potatoes and clearly more challenging to take control of. IMHO, that is. Peace and light, brothers and sisters. |
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Personally I prefer a much larger caliber, that can take anything living, without destroying it totally. Either the Nato 7.62/308 Win, or the 30-06. Both have acceptable recoil, prize and size. Expanding rounds for everything bigger than a small deer or so, and solid for small prey, to save more meat, more food.
.22 can take out deer with headshot if you are a d**n good sniper, but never go for their head. They starve painfully to death without their jaw :( Rather the neck. |
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I'm in SC.
Everyone here has a gun. I think they hand them out for free at the rest stop when you enter the state. But seriously.... Here, most people own at least one gun. There is no registration for residents. One can walk into any licensed store and purchase a handgun and ammo and take posession immediately. Furthermore, concealed weapon permits are considered to be a right, not a privelege. The law here says the Sheriff MUST give one to anyone who applies and meets the basic criteria (ie: pass a background check and complete a gun safety course). Any time one is out in public in SC it is likely that there are armed strangers around. Believe it or not, it is a comforting thought. I feel better knowing that some crazed lunatic has to think twice here about going on some sort of a rampage. There are dozens of good citizens around who are always armed and dangerous. That being said. I am certain that if and when martial law is declared, the PTB will arrive and confiscate all of the guns. Also, I think that during martial law it will be either a serious felony (think concentration camp) or worse (think deadly force) if a citizen is caught with a gun in their posession. Guns are a non-issue because they will be confiscated from everyone who doesn't want to die. |
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