Re: Syphoning
 

I have read the thread...It seems you didn't get much satisfaction.

Maybe the operative word here is "can" vs. another word, 'will.'
Because there may be people on the forum who know how to do this, but will they really share that knowledge on a forum? I didn't think so. :original:

And if they can do such a thing, they are highly developed adepts in either spiritual matters or magical matters. Which means it has probably taken them years and years of practice and devotion in order for this ability to come to fruition. So simply telling you what to read or giving you instructions over the internet won't confer that degree or give you the understanding you so seek.

Also, depending on what your definition of the word "spiritual" is, you will get many different kinds of answers. There is much discussed on PA forum that is spiritualistic; not so much that is deeply 'spiritual.'

In general, when one asks for a 'spiritual power' they are often asking for
some kind of psychic power - and this doesn't mean this is innately spiritual.

Teachers show the student when the student is ready. Gaining power for power's sake isn't spiritual. So the teacher - the adept, will see that the student is not yet ready bc s/he only wants the power and not the Spirit. It is your intention, your practice, your devotion to Spirit which can possibly gain you spiritual - type 'power.' Spirit ultimately chooses who will gain "spiritual power," not the seeker.

It is completely possible to siphon energy in a non-spiritual way. Is this what you are really asking? Those skilled in occult and magical matters would be more willing to share and you can become a student of one of them and find those books on any bookshelf.

The very clear thing about your question is that you have written it - and asked it - and then asked it here - How can Spiritual energy be (had) through attention. To me, this is a good sign. It starts with the question, and with your intention and practice, it may unfold within you over time.

Spiritual seekers - those on that path will confess that one may pray, meditate for years, read, ask, seek, seek, seek and not ever come to know Spirit. Because the control of this experience is not in our hands. The Mystics - those who have had the experience of The Divine have written about it - and the paradoxical essence of its thorny path.

Those seekers on the path to The Divine who find themselves progressing will come to acquire spiritual gifts and power - and each of them, if they are bent on one thing and one Thing only - The Divine - will be willing to give up any and all spiritual power if and when that time comes to be closer to The Divine. Just because one has acquired these psychic abilities, makes him/her no closer to Spirit - as you have said.

My humble two cents.

Interesting questions, as always, Czymra.

Re: Syphoning
 

Dakini, first and foremost, thank you for joining. We are too lonely out here.

Your post certainly helps guide this post as it defines intentions behind what I am asking. Although I never really had interest in the purpose or ends of the 'art of syphoning' I feel I should clarify some things.

Did you miss the orgasmic entry of sun-toon? ;)


You're quite right, but I never expected those people to come forward. I seek to discuss this matter with other wanderers. As you say yourself, there is no ultimate learning or result from discussing things. My intention here is to build a model. More on that later.

See, this is something I can't wrap my head around. Put the magical matter to the side. I have no deeper interest in the people who are convinced that magic is 'the thing'. But those people that you refer to as being 'highly developed' are anything but spiritual in my eyes. If anyone deserves my anger it is them right beside the rest of ignorance's disciples.
I've heard of highly experienced martial artists, that can do the most astounding things, yet they're racist. I've heard of spiritual gurus that may levitate, yet they abuse their wives. If I allow myself to wholeheartedly judge a thing, then it is this hypocrisy.


You're spot on of course. I myself wouldn't want to describe anything 'psychic' as spiritual but I must admit, it's another abused term. I suppose the flaw is within the 'spirit' possibly referring to 'ghostly' matters, as in etheric, astral and the like, rather as in my understanding of it, 'the essence' of man (or what we are).

This may be true, and yes, my teachers have appeared when I was ready, however they never held me back. True teachers never said 'no you can't do that yet'... they led me, they helped me and they warned me if need be... but they never dictated a program. It is these people that I am eternally grateful to, yes right, eternally.
No, these people aren't perfect, but they give it their all, and we should all do so.

I am not interested in learning how to syphon other people for their energy. I'm sure I can come up with enough mind games all on my own if that was my intent. No, if I ask to understand the concept, it is so I can escape this loop.

Let me illustrate this closer here. We all heard of the story of the boats of the Spaniards out in the waters before America, yet the natives wouldn't be able to see the boats. If you don't know the story, maybe you can Google it, it's a prime example, and one I think we need a word for.
A word that describes the necessity of a concept that allows 'stuff' to be perceptible within the paradigm. We all have unlearned seeing, hearing, feeling, by having been forced to learn all that we see hear and feel now.
I wish to unlearn the learned again, so I may yet again return to my roots, to my essence. My current knowledge in fact is what builds the bars to my own prison. My understanding of the world right now is based on concepts that are entirely 3D. What is discussed on this forum then often is bunched upon our 3D understanding... and then we get all this 'research' blah that, as Astralwalker put it so nicely, is more based our our belief system than actuality.

Now I don't have the illusion that I can unlearn a concept by learning another, no. I rather hope to learn of a concept and let those ideas break down my understanding of the 3D. It is a matter of deconstructing things by, hopefully, opening up a new layer of experience that was unaccessible to me before, so that these new experiences can then in turn inform my paradigm.

Yet, at the moment I'm told that there are ship out there on the water. I'm squinting hard, but I don't see a thing. Tell me... what are ships? How do they work? They can do what? Float? Don't they have to move their arms and legs? I see! We have such too! Now I see them! But they are so large! We never had such large ones? How comes they can still float, they must be heavy!

So, as you can see due to the wonderful combined effort of sun-toon's and mine we're approaching a model. Is it right? Probably not, but there is some way of envisioning what's going on. Some way that allows me to grasp what is being discussed without just saying "yeah, they take energy alright, and then they put it somewhere else".
I know that no one can prove it, but you don't need to prove me that ships float to explain to me some of the principles. One could even use a parable or an allegory to get at it. Anything that works!


Well, it does unfold indeed. And this is where it gets interesting as we had different kinds of syphoning here. In fact, as I alluded to in my lengthy post that obviously scared some people away, when talking about syphoning, one must account for all energetic transference. That means, how does energy float at all? Does it curse, does it beam, is it left behind? Does it manifest something that's left behind?
This interfaces with the question of how to use one's energy most efficiently, Tao comes to mind, but even the matter of being stressed or not, being tense or not, being open to the stream or not.

Why is it that I can feel some people's energy as they are close to me and other's not? Is it my rejection or lack of acceptance? Is it more pragmatic like, we are or the same polarisation? Do we not have energy levels that are different enough from each other? All these things never seem to be discussed! It's just 'yeah all is energy'. Right.

Yes, yes. This is most frustrating and the frustration is probably both, our driver and teacher. I am rather convinced that so far, I'm more interested in the thrill of seeing spirits or feeling an aura. I tell them "I'll put it to good use." but I don't know what that use is yet. I am constantly trying to 'see' things rather then letting go. Yes it's difficult. As you say...

What strikes me is that things aren't shared. Now with most people on this board, I am simply not attuned with all the stories that develop from meditation. Maybe it's just hard to describe. I can understand that. However, a friend of mine said that most people that are really advanced don't share their 'amazing stories' so they don't frustrate others. He gave me an example: "What if someone who meditated one year suddenly got the most amazing trips, and another who meditated 40 years got almost nothing...? It's like talking about 'how great sex was' to somebody that doesn't have any."

I can see the point, okay, but really... if those people are spiritually advanced I'm not frustrated at all. I only get frustrated when someone tries to tell me how great they are by conveying these stories. It's another case of 'fake spirituality' (or potency for the other example).

If I'm motivated to learn something, and I see someone else do it better, I am sped up doubly by seeing how they do it, and saying to myself "Wow! I wanna do that. Let's give it a try!"
Admittedly, this is easier with 3D matters that are actually tangible. But maybe I can entrain my focus to another person's focus, and thus s/he could guide me, as to them as a more developed person, things have actually become tangible?

This happens to me with 3D matters, but on the spiritual side, it seems to be all crooks.
So it's back to figuring this out myself.... with your help, sun-toons, 777, oedilroed, anybody that will bother to throw a piece in, whether it is with good or ill intention, I do not care, for those who are willing to grow, will grow.

I merely hope that we that we are here at Avalon, share this, and learn together from each other. I'm much more interested in that than worrying about the next law being passed.

Excuse me if I offended anybody with this, I try to speak from my heart but not all is pure... yet.
Czymra


My humble two cents.

Interesting questions, as always, Czymra.[/QUOTE]

Re: Syphoning
 

Well this sheds some light on one of the problems I'm having in my life. I actually am having great orgasms, it's just that I'm having them on the internet without knowing it.

Czymra, I'm happy that you indicate you were asking the "syphoning" question not because you were looking for instructions, but as I assumed, because you wanted to know how it works as energetic process.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it would be appropriate to ask for assistance like that here, though such conversations do go on endlessly in some venues. Check out the mind control forums sometime...not the ones from people who are escaping the clutches, but the ones hosted and populated by controllers. They're a wonderful incentive for the need to learn everything about keeping control of your energy.


...another chapter in my imaginary book: "The 8th dimensional sphincter-hat".

I don't think it's about unlearning anything, at least on purpose, and you can't know too much (though you can know too much for your own good). We can be too deep within the rational mind and not expansive enough intuitively....or the opposite for that matter. If you feel like you're too locked into rational thinking, there are ways to blow that paradigm out of the water.
The problem out here in the woo-hoo exchange is usually more about having a lack of some kind of rational framework for an overload of intuition. I think that's what you're feeling in your disattachment to the meditators. It's all about balance.

I once told a friend that I thought intuition trumps intellect...and he shot back with "yeah, perfect intution".

People who are truly advanced share their amazing stories in appropriate ways. They don't force them on other people at dinner parties, or tell them to those who would misuse the information, but they don't keep it to themselves either. I don't care how expansive someone thinks their vision is, all I can see around here is the blind leading the blind. Nobody's that much more special than anyone else.

It is all energy...but that statement has to be the classic metaphysical conversation closer. It's a huge subject, really the only subject that matters to me, because all we can take out of here is the experience of the energy we've encountered. How is this energy created? How does one shape it and project it? How do we store it, give it away, take it in? What makes some energy good, other energy bad? How do we keep ourselves from being controlled or absorbed by by external forces? What happens when we replace the word "energy" with consciousness in all those questions? Does consciousness precede manifestation? If it does a lot of Darwinists are going to be disappointed.

At first I couldn't understand what you meant here, but...hmmm now I do, and it goes for me too.

Re: Syphoning
 

Are you serious?

Bring it on. I'd like to blow it out of the water indeed.


The first statement is exactly what I refer to, but the second I don't get.

Well said.

Another set of excellent questions.

Re: Syphoning
 

I don't really want to talk about that too much on the board, though somebody might. I don't know how deeply you've looked into the work of Terence Mckenna, but he's a good example of someone who was highly intellectual, but understood that the true nature of reality was not accessible through speech and human language. Yet he tried valiantly.

I don't grok a lot of his insights, but I understand enough to relate it to my own moments of profound intuitional intensity...moments of having my left/right brain balance upset to the point of barely being able to understand how get a key into a lock. Was I wasted? Not really...it was just a different kind of perception, lucid but almost incomprehensible through rational evaluation. The key and the lock barely exist there. It can take a while to process that sort of information and we never get a large percentage of it, but it can be processed and does then affect the rational paradigm and shifts it.

This is what's going on with the whole planet through this "quickening" process. It's like someone has put ayahuasca into the water supply. Most people are still clinging to the matrix dream with all their might...."please, fix the economy, protect us from violence, God help us". Others are visualizing every freaking possibility from every imaginable circumstance, real or otherwise. We don't know who's crazy and who's lucid yet but as some of us are desperately trying to parse the visionary stream and figure out what of it actually fits, though just by plugging into it, we're changing the nature of everything else.

There will be no fix however, that I'm sure of. The current matrix stream of consciousness is disintegrating, and all directions are forward. If you ask around there are an increasing number of people who are aware of this, mundane folks who would never look at websites like this. They all know something is up and they're waiting for the other shoe to drop.


The difference between a visionary and a schizophrenic is the measure of rational thinking and logic that the visionary applies to analyze his intuitions. The loony bins are full of powerful intuitives who are lost in them, without balance or reason, and they've forgotten where they are and how it works here. OTOH, if you were able to acquire perfect intuition, you would simply KNOW. There would be no need for the rational part of the mind. This is a state of mind the mystics talk of and I do believe it exists.
However much of a goal it may be to access that kernel of perception, it doesn't seem like it would be that interesting to permanently stay there. It would be a nifty trick though, and may be the only way to know anything for sure.

I've gotten a bit far from the subject of energy siphoning, but it is a conversation and this is where it's gone. It's all a process of expansion and integration. You're feeling a need to expand beyond your boundaries, and I think that's good. The fact that you've already expanded far beyond the norm is even better. Somebody has to go ahead and find a direction.

I think humanity's been siphoned since the beginning. Part of integrating this shift of consciousness is to break that pattern through an expanding awareness of how reality works. Acquiring that awareness requires breaking out of the program we've been provided with. That involves awakening the intuitive faculties and using new insights to reevaluate what we've been told is real. This can be dangerous, but the only real worry IMO is in losing our sovereign identities in the process, and I think there's a greater threat of that by staying within the program than there is in blowing it up.

Re: Syphoning
 

Darn, must've missed the fireworks. :naughty:
Grasshopper...:king: put your anger aside a second and realize that there are some pure souls out there who are 'advanced' without being fakes, charlatans, or crooks...it is clear you have met very few.


So my assumption is that you are using the term "spiritual" here as things that pertain to the unseen, the mystery. Let's just say for conversation's sake that the underpinnings of the word have to do with The Absolute, and all the other phenomena that people experience that has nothing to do with The Absolute is "spiritualistic".

It sounds like you want to escape the loop of having other people manipulate you on an energetic level. This is doable, but remember that we are all connected energetically to begin with. So perhaps what you want is someone to help you with effective protective methods.

We are also bound by ego and by the Mind. And it is clear you have a great mind, Czymra. So all of what you have an intense desire for may in the processs be limited by the mind. Because at some point, when you have built the model with your mind, know that the model itself may be intrinsically limited. For the mind cannot grasp one's true essence. However, one may take this growing model of understanding and begin the work of Practice and Spiritual Cultivation - applying what you are learning. If we do not practice with pure intent on the work, we may not advance to our satisfaction. Just reading and learning and talking does not advance us.

Yes! Yes! Seekers always want first hand experience of the Proof. And if it were not written about or discussed by the greats, we would not necessarily be driven to its Source! What I am reminding is that the principles can be grasped by the mind to some degree and then you must practice these principles. Those with the greatest minds can often find the path the hardest. They want the experience, not just the theory. At some point, the Mystics put down the books and the learning and began the process of doing.

This is where some people start...the curiosity about the spiritualistic phenomena around the unseen. But don't make the mistake of imagining that seeing things or beings, seeing auras, creating magic, manifesting, etc. are the end result of anything remotely spiritual. In fact, these things are the signposts that one needs to keep progressing, that one is not near enough to the goal. The ego will often create spiritualistic phenomena - yes, the ego -
it will create distractions to advancement. Because true advancement of the soul threatens the ego. So the ego will want to create all kinds of phenomena to keep you attached and very interested in that level of your
progress. Heck, why progress? Life is SO much more interesting here. And now I'm special. But very few phenomena, some say none, at this juncture come from Spirit.


An adept meditation teacher may tell this friend to "keep meditating." Remember, advanced meditators will cross over into this world of illusion and it is the goal to avoid becoming attached to all the bells and whistles of the spiritual cultivation process. What is frustrating is remaining at this level of meditation where all the stuff is happening. S/he should push through this stage - it is not a symbol of being 'advanced.'

It is only natural to be excited by these bells and whistles and want to share the undescribable to those closest - however - it is a sign that one is opening up, a beginner, not that one has reached any destination. Those that spill the beans early on usually regret doing that - many of us have made that mistake. Because things change, we evolve, we realize over time that things that happen may be coming from the mind and the ego. Talking about it to anyone who is not one's mentor can end up being a mistake. The cultivation process takes so many twists and turns over the years.

This is really a very big question. Who to choose as one's teacher. There are so few these days, I agree. But it can't stop you from reading and practicing. Your choice at this point is where to start and what kind of teachings to focus on - New Age, spiritualistic stuff or the spiritual stuff. The New Age stuff will teach you to see beings and manifest - you can be the Magician if you like or you can attempt to be more.


Yeah, that purification part is a bitch!

Re: Syphoning
 

Okay guys, the thread splices up somewhere here so allow me to weave things together to gain a little more coherence again and maybe I can manage to even support both discussions at the same time. I'll refer to 'old' quotes just to give this a proper vector. Let's go!

Let's start with 1. The actual issue of syphoning:

First, I'm aware that we are all one. I don't intend to cut myself off. Also, as I will ferociously defend later, I am trying to practice not just discuss.
I don't consider myself in a loop of energetic manipulation at the moment. I'm not in an abusive relationship that was forced unto me or that I have not recognised as such. This is not about saving myself at this point in time. It's about gaining insight, or rather, as I'm consistently trying to express, finding access to a way of getting real insight, outside of the mind and intellectualising.
In short, the model building is a matter of grasping dynamics that might go on 'out there' so I can recognise them when I encounter them. How else will I know the ships from swimming mountains?

We really should get back to this but it seems that we're yet again wound up in discussing the why at all and how, so here goes:

2. The matter of grasping 'energetics':

Sun-Toon's and Dakini's statement seem to oppose each other directly here.
Okay, I'm with you on hemisphere synchronisation, but something tells me that's not the whole deal. When you're synced, you're still operating that sync input on an old paradigm, aren't you?
As for the limited mind, I am aware of that, as I will try to explain again later, I'm not trying to gain actual insight through discussion, but find a pathway to that insight.
And believe me, I do practice, every day, out there in the world, not in the imagination of my head.

I'm with sun-toon on this one. Dakini, something strikes me from the words you write, also on the "The Open Secret" Thread. It's filled of words like 'adept' and 'master' and 'progress' and the respect for it. It makes me consider the possibility that you bought into this ascension stuff for too long to now let go of it, another sign of ego I would think. Another sign that I have become allergic to is calling others 'beginners'. I may have done that myself often a time, but just as often I have realised that it is only a matter for people trying to re-establish their own status quo. Yes, they are afraid of people that learn quicker than them because why would they have it easier or be more talented? It's not fair they probably think, those that learn too quickly have to be syphoned and confused on their path. "We're just testing them", these barriers are part of the path after all, aren't they?
Another ego trip?

No matter, and even though I probably blew your patience at this point, I would like to know how 'spilling the beans' can be a mistake. I can guess what you're getting at, but I'm not sure what the greater gain is. If more of us had such skills maybe there would actually be a real chance of turning the world toward something more positive. I mean, if we all were telepathic, if there were no secrets but only full collision and acutal emoting and sensing of the other, real empathy, no misunderstanding, how could that be any detriment to anybody?
Yeah you have to face yourself and get your heart ripped out, but it sounds like it's worth it.

I agree fully with you here Dakini, to the extent that I'm actually confused why you said what I treated before this. However, the level you are talking about isn't even in my reach yet. I see no entity anywhere in fact and I'm fine with that, because I'm at least aware that all that there is right now is my ego and mind playing on me.
Regarding the last paragraph on 'quick learning' however, I suppose I must admit that I'm trying to bypass all that ghost-seeing. Then again, I thought that manifesting things is the sh*t. Okay, there may be more but yet again it would put an end to enslavement on this planet!
So maybe bypassing is not possible, who knows. But I am asking my questions so that I may recognise the deeper truth beyond all the spiritualistic stuff. That is why I bring up the story of the ships floating on the water, so I may recognise that which isn't even visible to me yet. It isn't visible because I've completely shut it out of my spectrum of possibility, or maybe it was never there. Who knows. No matter this is about understanding how to actualise an insight, not gaining an insight through writing. I know that's not possible.

Now I do want to give you a hug. There you understand what I mean, that again, I'm confused why you even mentioned the other stuff. If I wanted to be a magician I'd do the 777 stuff. It doesn't feel right. I concluded that seeing auras and gaining information through RV and Akashic Records is a sensible step however, because if I suddenly sit outside and no food is on in the supermarkets, I'll have ways of knowing where to turn to. Fair enough, I can follow my intuition.
I do have a 'mentor' if you can call him that at the moment and he continues on blowing my mind but I'm still missing something, true interaction just isn't happening on this level, as you concluded yourself. Maybe that's why one can't grasp syphoning either? Are we already beyond being able to model anything? So far the astral stuff seemed rather conceivable.
Yes, all these things so far are just concepts and imaginations in my head. Be it telepathy, syphoning whatever.
The difference however is that telepathy, actually I can grasp that somehow already, syphoning, not entirely.
The point is: How can I even say this? Dakini, get me wrong this time, it's not understanding, it's not grasping, it's not modelling, it's not conceptualising or conceiving an idea, it's just finding a method that THEN allows me to somehow be (for lack of a better term) the ships, to gain REAL insight in PRACTICE.


The question though is, if you don't advocate learning these 'skills' what do you advocate?

Re: Syphoning
 

By the way Sun-Toon, I watched a Terrence McKenna before, that was the best video speech I've seen in some time.
Now I understand what's missing on the Nexus to annihilate hierarchy and dissent, a forthweekly orgy! Ah, life must have been sweet back then. ;)

Re: Syphoning
 

you had many answers of nice peoples telling you whath they think about your question.But you don't listen to what they tell you.You are not sastify with their answers.For me it means you have to find your own answers and stop syphoning other peoples.Bonne chance,hope you will find the answer by yourself.

Re: Syphoning
 

Not necessarily. You could decide to operate under an entirely new paradigm without any hemispheric synchronization. I do understand that the mind can't be examined from the point of view of the mind. I'm just telling you, that from experience, I've learned the intuitive part of the mind, which may be actually reaching past the boundaries of mind, tends to bring information to the rational senses that appear at first to be disconnected and irrational, but upon integration, end up raising the plane of what used be logical.

I don't grok any of these arbitrary definitions (from my PoV), like seeker, adept, master, etc, either...and "beginner" sounds condescending. I'm really lost in the perceived difference between "Spirit" and "spiritualistic". It's all spiritual to me. Right now my spirit, or consciousness as I usually call it, is experiencing the realm of 3d, filtering its reality through the "space suit" I've acquired which allows my higher frequency shells to function here without being crushed by the density.

I have no master, nor do I seek one. I've had a couple of temporary mentors, which was interesting, but I'm not seeking one of those either. I'm a sponge whenever I find someone who appears to have what I feel I need. I'm not going anywhere in particular, and I'm not looking for anything other than experience while I work on this project of trying to assure that this planet survives to continue it's long and potentially glorious evolutionary process. How can there be a destination in eternity? Experience is the gold.

I don't think there's any such thing as "spilling the beans". There's really no possibility of understanding some expansion of consciousness until the platform that expansion is built upon is integrated. What I hear in this is the idea of secret knowledge that secretive groups have kept to themselves and shared with those who would play their game. There are no secrets. We all know everything. I see it all as a process of growing into a greater awareness the nuances of our Being.

Czymra...the bells and whistles are not always bells or whistles. Sometimes they're fleeting wisps of dreaming that blow past barely capturing our attention. If you want to become a magician, that would be a good way to discover more about the nature of about bells and whistles, because in essence we're all sorcerers. We are all manifestations of energy, and we're projecting that energy into every reality we inhabit at every moment of our existence. All the magician stuff that "magick" workers do is only one facet of the realm of your sorcerer self. RV, the akashic, writing to this group or making breakfast are other forms.

Personally, I can't get with any paradigm that says we need to go live in the part of ourselves that's beyond ego and mind, and beyond this plane of existence. I think what we need to be doing is integrating all of it to the best of our ability, bringing it into this continuum and experiencing this frame of reference to the maximum of our abilities. No realm is superior to another and no sovereign entity has a master. Here is where it's happening for us; here is where we've come for exactly this experience.
We do need to understand reality, because the truth of it is being hidden from us by those who believe themselves to be superior. And, to get back to the theme of the thread, we are being siphoned, and we do need to know how and why that's happening to us or it will continue until there's nothing left of humanity but slaves. Only through a clearer understanding of the workings of reality, can we do that.

The whole idea that it's a game of personal escape is a lie. The game is for all of us to awaken together. What are we going to do, go sit on a cloud and wait for the next 10 million years for our loved ones to get it?

Re: Syphoning
 

Kick-ass my friend. I'll wait it out and listen to Dakini's response now. :)

Re: Syphoning
 

Hey guys,
First, I use the words "master" and "adept" only in their classical definitions and not from another place. I reference those from about 15 years of study and reading the accounts of Mystics - maybe I should've used that word instead. And there are hundreds of descriptions to read. What they reveal and meditation type 'experts' tell us is this...that the student (or 'beginner') will not fully understand what his teacher has experienced...but the teacher will understand what the student is experiencing - And from this context only, that information is not necessarily held secret out of malice or superior power.

I don't know Sun-toon, I should start reading his threads, he is probably more advanced in his particular practices and those would be over my head :-)

But I do feel you, Czymra...your earnest thirst for knowledge and to 'be the ship.' Do you know how rare that is? And refreshing? I was only attempting, maybe not so skillfully, to point you in a direction you may not have considered. Something that to me is more in line with the Mystic's path - I say that because I see in you something that is indeed rare, and someone who could benefit greatly. And manifesting is not so in line with that particular path. Although one would learn to manifest on that path - it's just not the focus of that path.

There is so much stuff to sift through on these threads with everyone kind of offering a bit of good advice or questions. So it is no wonder to me that it can be stimulating in the least to figure out where you would like to spend your precious energy, heart and mind and focus on the next thing that would be best for your goals.

Meditation - There is a body of work by Bill Bodri - he has some e-books you might get something good out of. (Although he has some detractors who would argue with some of his theory) How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization ("Measuring Meditation")

Also by him, maybe in line with your strong interests - The White Skeleton Meditation Practice Manual ..."Perhaps the most effective meditation technique to ever come out of India, because of its quick samadhi results and psychic abilities it typically produces, is the Dazzling White Skeleton Visualization. Learn to practice this very special Buddhist meditation technique that helps you reduce stress, eliminate attachment to your body, cultivate your chi (qi or prana) and open your chi channels, develop paranormal abilities and ultimately the first dhyana samadhi, which is the initial target of spiritual practice."

I don't earn money on any click throughs to his site - some of his work helped me. I also used to email him a long time ago when I had a question - his response always was, "Keep meditating." :original: So he might still be available via email if you had questions about which one to start with.

Manifesting takes a great deal of pointed focus...and some 'meditation' can help develop that.

Re: Syphoning
 

Hi Dakini...I doubt it, I'm more of an advanced non-practitioner. :>)
That being said, working to stay in a state of awareness of the exchange of energy going on all around us is a kind of meditation plane of it's own. I can appreciate your use of the word "mystic" as opposed to "adept" since it seems so much less subjective. One person's adept can be the next person's fool...or worse, puppeteer.

The white skeleton meditation sounds interesting. I was hoping to find a link to examine the technique, but I can't see paying for something I'd probably not use (and I realize you weren't recommending it to me :>)...since I'm wary of anything connected to any religion or established path of energetics. This doesn't imply an opinion about its merits as far as anyone else is concerned.

It's not just the idea of information having been kept secret that I see as a problem, but that the misdirection of energy and information has been a major function of all the world's religions and spiritual institutions. I inherently mistrust every meditation technique, doctrine, prayer, magical spell or whatever, out of a suspicion of the subtle programming or energetic heisting that may be involved.

This probably sounds paranoid, but it's because I'm buying into one component of Wingmaker/James' paradigm, and also that of Kyle Griffith's War in Heaven...the notion of being caught up in a holographic prison of a sort that remains a prison right up through and beyond all the levels of the spiritual adepts and even ascended mastery. Therefore I have alarms going off constantly, even over such elemental constructs as archetypal images. There's a good chance that many of the techniques and processes which we believe have been designed by spiritual masters and/or light beings, are actually distractions to take a serious seeker of the knowledge of the workings of reality, into a higher plane of entrapment.


I agree, and to Czymra I'd like to add that we're always manifesting, every moment, all the time. What we're seeking isn't only the ability to manifest, or even to manifest intentionally, but to have the clarity to manifest intelligently and in balance with the natural rhythms and patterns of organic life as well. If we can't find a way to empty ourselves of mental babble this is never possible...so some way to turn off and go deeper than mind is essential to the process.

Re: Syphoning
 

Very true; to me, this is in essence The Work and quite possibly, The Way.

Yes, absolutely.

I can tell you that the first ebook was well worth the $ - it is 200 pages printed off - maybe if Czymra and you were interested, you could split the cost, since it is sent via email, i think, for download.

I agree - I have no religion, and was not raised with any religion. However, through my study of the Mystics and Eastern practices of meditation, mystery school teachings and other things, one can see the common links - and within the links the doorways into the inner realms. Cymra wants to start someplace though, and it's hard to try to select something for him to explore that isn't filled with, from my experience, errors - for lack of a better word. :original:

From my understanding, Griffith's work is pretty dark stuff - creates a unique ripple effect in one's emotional subtle body layer that will feel like paranoia. Whatever we resonate with, whether it's Griffiths, Wingmaker, 'whom'ever is very interesting to me, bc of the DNA frequency patterns we are uniquely born with and maybe our genetic past about who dabbled in what and what we are to transcend this lifetime.

At least James displays some of the patterns of a visionary; The Mystic is often an artist; some artists have that direct line. Which is what I envision you being - a visionary himself who must believe that and continue to produce your own body of work with little or no distractions. From this one post it is what I get - and many of the visionaries alive today will intuitively reject those things that do not ring true within them. Rebels some, and defenders of The Truth they are born with.

Those on the visionary path will no doubt read through many texts, try many methods, but ultimately, bc of their 'bigger' nature forge new ground. This is how beings and, I believe, Spirit depend on the visionary. BC as the visionaries evolve, so does Spirit expand and evolve.

Re: Syphoning
 

FYI I saw this on the James Casbolt thread page 26
these entities have no energy source and they can be understood as the ultimate bullies. There is some kind of king entity which feeds off the power of radiation on this planet. He is tuned into all TV's, computers, radios etc. I don't fully understand it myself but magnetic tentacles attach to the third eye chakra and he feeds from us and then passes the chi down to his soldiers. This is why many mystics avoid these modern contraptions. Anyone remember the film 'Agency' with the 6 million dollar man in it. On the front cover it says "Someone wants to control your mind, and their using your TV to do it".

Re: Syphoning
 

To learn how energies are captured, read "True Reality of Sexuality" and watch the DVDs on the topic.
http://www.expansions.com/QA_Comments.cfm

Re: Syphoning
 

What a thrill to have read the entire Thread... and OMG sun-toon, I just love you!... and Czymra, we are family!!! I understand you two to the marrow!!! I feel so at home with the subject as I too have been pondering the same idea for some time... this Energy Feed-fest deal... sure rings real to me!!!

My father once said "life feeds on life".. and for yrs that stuck in mind... wondered just what am I food for??? And, now here I am reading this thread with a question about just HOW this syphoning happens? What is the process? Extremely stimulating question!!!

No one apparently knows HOW it happens, but I've experienced being the generator & the recipient... we ALL have really, we've just not paid attention.

Reading this thread has me in a tailspin as there have been so many thought trains to respond to, but now I've come to the end of the thread and am left w/notes to myself on a paper plate (hey, it was handy)... let me catch my breath!

Quickly, one thing I intuit: Intent is Not enough to stop your energies from feeding whatever entities thrive on them. And by golly, I'm just stunned into delight to have read that perhaps there is a symbiotic relationship as well... wow, that I had never thought of.. quite true ringing as well.

another thing i must ask: what is BDSM? It will come to mind just as soon as I hit 'send'... thanks... I'll be back after I take a break.

Love this Thread!!!

SunToon wrote: You could decide to operate under an entirely new paradigm without any hemispheric synchronization. I do understand that the mind can't be examined from the point of view of the mind. I'm just telling you, that from experience, I've learned the intuitive part of the mind, which may be actually reaching past the boundaries of mind, tends to bring information to the rational senses that appear at first to be disconnected and irrational, but upon integration, end up raising the plane of what used be logical.

Re: Syphoning
 

Avyaktam: I was introduced to Stewart Swerdlow some yrs back and just met him last year. His work is what has me intrigued with this energetic feeding frenzy that happens 24/7... fascinating to say the least. It's no wonder that sexuality is all over the media, porn so pervasive on the internet.... we are not taught, haven't much of a clue of the creative power in these energies... most people are into the feel good of things... so it's quite possible that undirected energy is harvested/syphoned for another use by whatever entity has the know how to capture it.

Excellent question: what is the Know-How, how does it work? Woo Hoo!!!! back later...

Re: Syphoning
 

SunToon wrote: "...the misdirection of energy and information has been a major function of all the world's religions and spiritual institutions. I inherently mistrust every meditation technique, doctrine, prayer, magical spell or whatever, out of a suspicion of the subtle programming or energetic heisting that may be involved".

I'm on line w/this. For some darned reason, all my life I've trusted some inner guidance that said you don't have to sit in a particular fashion to meditate, that sort of thing. I dislike using the word 'believe' ... I tend to own the idea that we all have the same 'stuff' to work with... whatever it IS that is living us, ya know???.. and if you follow me, this "stuff" that lives us IS the REAL us, it's not our looks, our education, our job , that is us... all of us... and for lack of a better word, the Ego and the programming/mind shaping imprinting that is all around us from day one, HAS us.. it's just amazing that this 'something' within me keeps me knowing that I am on the right track regardless of the entrainment of this modern life.

Misdirected energy. Yes, information is hidden but we all have what it takes to break through. There is a connection to a source, the source of all, that can be tapped into.

The word Syphon has a negative taste to it... along w/the endless tales &witnesses of reptilians/aliens/PTB/illuminati agendas... this VICTIM mentality is just rampant (Swerdlow message).. it's undeniable. We have to BLAME something & someone for our seeming lack of know how.

All I can say is that we humans must have something really special & powerful that we are unaware of. So, better the question be, How Can We Consciously Generate for Creative Benevolence rather than How Does the Syphoning happen?? No?? Seems to me that should we KNOW that we do certainly have powerful creative energies... we would naturally cultivate that within ourselves just as a baby begins to walk... we don't need a teacher or the Illuminati to show us. Why? Because that sort of thing can't be shown, can it??? Not to mention that fact of being able to trust the source!

It just seems to me that hardly anything can be verified anymore !
That our energies are being sucked from us... that astral beings eat us when we die.... who cares? if we OWN our power, no one can take it!!!

g'nite, I'm tired & I think I've rambled.

Re: Syphoning
 

It's too bad, but I think you're right. I don't like mistrusting every method both modern and traditional, but most if not all have been compromised...or...they're illegal. There may be a clue in that.

Some visionaries visualize darkness. We don't always have a choice in what we see. I was thinking today that each level of our awakening to the ubiquitous darkness which overlays this realm tends to cause overexpansion, and at first, some measure of paranoia (i.e omg, they really did blow up the towers!?!). It's true with War in Heaven (and btw, I don't buy into all of that) and it's also true with this idea of being siphoned for our energy. For me, the more I know the less paranoid I am, because fear becomes neutralized by increased clarity.

Interesting that you visualized me...I like what you wrote, though most people are less appreciative and tend to write off what you call "visionary" as paranoid, ungrounded or my annoying attempts to reinvent the wheel (and if they only knew that I really want to reinvent fire).

It will be amazing if we come to find that what we've done here does help expand and evolve the greater conciousness. I have a strong feeling that this is a weird outpost in the local universe where mighty forces have gathered to fight a war by proxy, and in which "territory" is the direction of the evolution of the human thoughtform. There's something to that "ground crew" label, which if we think about it should be empowering. I imagine that many of the most adept beings are working here on the inside.

Hi EpiphaMe, nice to have you in the thread.
I've had your father's view for a long time. I think the material worlds mirror the higher densities. In the same way in which every creature here trades in sunlight, up and down the food chain, in other densities, it's "energy" that's consumed. It's kind of creepy, but I also think it's a part of the natural system...though that's been hijacked, perverted and turned into a major industry that trades in loosh.

I just thought of a visual aid which has influenced me a lot, Alex Grey's "Demons and Deities Drinking at the Milky Pool". It's worth finding his book, "Sacred Mirrors" and viewing it there because the information is all in the details:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z...nddeities_.jpg

I'm not sure about the intent thing, but if it's not impossible now, it's surely more difficult. Perhaps we need to find ways of connection that help us protect each other rather than everyone trying to defend themselves individually against overwhelming odds. I'm confident that our "light being" families are helping with this, but it sure is hard to tell who's who in that domain.

...and to answer your question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM

I do believe that humans have something special and powerful, and we're definitely, as a group unaware of it. I also think you're really on the right track by considering what it is we can consciously generate. That's the key, to make ourselves into lighter food...food that's unacceptable to the lower frequency parasites who are manipulating us into producing their favorite chow.

But we need to care. Maybe astral beings won't eat you or me, but I'm not happy about them eating my mom either...or anybody. These systems, realms, whatever we call them, are interconnected. If bringing down the loosh generating system on planet doesn't end it in the astral as well, that will be the next mission.

Re: Syphoning
 

I did want to keep answering to this thread but I've been caught up in my own little syphoning trip. Stress really is just another means of opening a person up to be syphoned isnt' it?

In that sense, even though it may be redundant, I want to make it clear that I believe the first step to parrying syphoning is to look very very strictly at one's own thought and emotion patterns and to recognise which have been planted there to 'self-destruct' so to say.
This isn't anything new, I know, but what came to me is the feeling that all of us should be impeccable at defending such kinds of attacks by nature. It's only when the weaving of our tapestry is corrupted that a thread can be pulled from it.
So, as outlined in length before in the conversations (exchange?) with oedilroed, there is a plethora of psychological games going on that represent such a corruption in the pattern of weaving. Such are victimhood, greed for power, stress, paranoia and many more.

I agree with EpiphaMe that we should also concentrate on opening the channel to the source (of energy) but we are all concerned with doing that anyway it seems. In that sense, I can't help but reinstate the importance of scepticism towards all forms of ritualised practice, be that skateboarding or meditation. As said before, this time around, there are no teachers, the pattern has to break of horizontally.

Furthermore, I wonder if syphoning or accumulating energy is always an act of a sexual fashion. I don't mean a 3D sexual encounter or so, but merely the fact that the type of energy that flows from wherever to whoever, is of a sexual nature.

What is sexuality anyway on the higher planes? Just exchange? What is it about astral sex that it seems to be the most widely used too to keep people at bay from entering in a more profound state in the astra?


Dakini, could you try to classify that path? I sense what you're saying but my intellect isn't following. I'm not particularly intent on manifesting.... but at the moment I'm still hardly conscious of what's going on. I wonder if consciousness has anything to do with it even. The models are all so corrupted.

If I had to describe an affinity to roles (of energetic transfer maybe) the easiest analogy I can find is in roleplaying games... and it would be somewhere along the line of druid/ranger/messenger. Ah, I wish we could just throw the old language out and make a new one. Anyone ever read "City of Glass" by Auster?

Re: Syphoning
 

The constant barrage of chaotic forces we live in are the means of opening us up. It's not just fear, it's all the mundane things that drag us into the matrix pattern...stupid laws and taxes, the absurd economic systems we're living in, the programs of social, emotional and sexual behaviors that are broadcast into our lives. The message is always, "follow the rules, fit into the system, play the game and you'll be comfortable and life will be easy", but of course they're really saying, "Go back to sleep, don't push buttons or look deeper and you won't have that stress, Czymra". :>)

I find the mundane attacks to be the most sinister element...really, they're the very background pattern that we're playing the game on, and the most effective means of opening us up to be siphoned. It's the people who crack from it all who get the most attention, but they're not the main source of the harvest.

I couldn't figure out what was going on in your exchange with oedilroed (not that I'm not curious :>), but I do think you've nailed it when you mention the "psychological games that represent...corruption". We come into these lives already traumatized, and those games can either keep us at the frequency we came in at, or help us to transcend old patterns. I've had people freak on me when I've said that BDSM can be used as a healing process, because all they can see is that it's representative of perverse sexuality...but I'd wager that most of us have been involved in such perversions in our existence, both as givers and takers, and in those instances we played for keeps. Finding a way of safely bleeding those old patterns out of our systems, and leaving them behind, can't be any more wrong than suppressing them and having them manifest in bizarre and enigmatic patterns of behavior.

I should have entered this into my previous post...Alex Grey's comments on the "Demons and Dieties Drinking at the Milky Pool" painting:

There's a page on Jonothan Zap's site, titled Alex Grey and the Mind Parasites which might lend some insight to this conversation.

I'm curious as to what you mean by your suggestion that "[astral sex] seems to be the most widely used tool to keep people at bay from entering in a more profound state in the astra".

I'm not going to answer for Dakini, but I do want to say that it doesn't matter whether you're "intent on manifesting" or not, you're doing it, every moment. This is where the impeccability comes into play, so you don't have to be filled with thinking about it every second, it's just positive emanation. And you're already on the mystic path, it's just that it usually takes many years of experiencing it before we can comprehend that it is what it is.

Re: Syphoning
 

I'm not sure that you wouldn't view this path as out-moded, or too traditional, or corrupted. But for someone with so much to say and explore, it could be something to read about to understand this path.

To classify it would be a long post, if I could even do it :-). I would point you to Evelyn Underhill - my favorite to read - herself a British Mystic - she wrote primarily of the Christian mystics, and, leaving out her own process, describes the process of the mystic path so incredibly eloquently bc of her firsthand knowledge of it. Here is what she says:

We begin, therefore, to see that the task of union with Reality will involve certain stages of preparation as well as stages of attainment; and these stages of preparation — for some disinterested souls easy and rapid, for others long and full of pain — may be grouped under two heads.

First, the disciplining and simplifying of the attention, which is the essence of Recollection. Next, the disciplining and simplifying of the affections and will, the orientation of the heart; which is sometimes called by the formidable name of Purgation. So the practical mysticism of the plain man will best be grasped by him as a five-fold scheme of training and growth: in which the first two stages prepare the self for union with Reality, and the last three unite it successively with the World of Becoming, the World of Being, and finally with that Ultimate Fact which the philosopher calls the Absolute and the religious mystic calls God. From, Practical Mysticism, here on pbs.org

This is a lifelong path, one with no guarantees of any progress. For the Mystics, in the final process of it all, they find themselves integrated back into the normal world, living life, but being carried by their realization.

The Mystic's Path - An old fashioned Way, perhaps, but so compelling to read and experience. There is a new Way that is emerging, and that Way has in common elements of this path.

Re: Syphoning
 

Here's an interesting piece on siphoning from Bronte Baxter's "Splinter in the Mind" blog stretching the idea energy siphoning into consciousness assimiliation:
Enlightenment: From Siphoning to Assimilation

Bronte Baxter wrote:
It seems the idea of whether or not we should surrender our egos to God, or universal Oneness, is the dividing line between spiritual paths. Do we take our individual sovereign consciousness and become actual co-creators, or do we merge into the void. Personally, the void holds no attraction for me, especially since it's not a void at all, it's another conscious mind...a very large one, and it's not mine. Therefore I do not want to assimilate with it, and I'm tired of being deluded and siphoned by it.

Just the act of thinking like this is liberating. It takes the siphoning concept all the way to the top...because it is above, as it is below.
There is an outside to all of this.

Re: Syphoning
 

QUOTE: Hi EpiphaMe, nice to have you in the thread.
I've had your father's view for a long time. I think the material worlds mirror the higher densities. In the same way in which every creature here trades in sunlight, up and down the food chain, in other densities, it's "energy" that's consumed. It's kind of creepy, but I also think it's a part of the natural system...though that's been hijacked, perverted and turned into a major industry that trades in loosh.

*** that is so kool you said that it's part of the natural system.. ya see? sometimes I'm just so dense (or shallow) that I can't entertain the other side of the coin... but just today my Best friend next to my husband said the SAME thing! I kid you not! How KOOL.. I love having my thoughttrain derailed!

Dakini wrote: Spiritual seekers - those on that path will confess that one may pray, meditate for years, read, ask, seek, seek, seek and not ever come to know Spirit. Because the control of this experience is not in our hands.

***Whoah Nellie!!!~ Now I HAVE thought of the same idea... that somewhere, somehow, our Peak abilities have been bred out of us... because many times in the past (when I was younger) my mind would hit a brick wall when trying to penetrate conceptuals (that does not so much happen anymore, maybe I'm just stupid now, I dunno.. lol)... would you expound please, your take on that?

I'm going to post this now although I have more to respond to... it's just that this posting thing times out of my frequently... I don't want to lose the train ride....

Re: Syphoning
 

Dakini wrote: Just because one has acquired these psychic abilities, makes him/her no closer to Spirit - as you have said.

*** I hear you... I've often reflected on myself, having grokked conceptuals yet they don't necessarily produce change in my behavior...]
Ken Wilber suggests that we've missed a rung on the ladder... I don't necessarily buy that idea, howEVER I too have judged myself, that I
should have responded this way or that based on what I've grokked...

is that what you mean? That even tho we "get" this or that... really, fundamentally, we "get" it... that unless is affects a discernable change within us, that it is moooooot???

I really don't think so myself. We deal with so much BS in life...
I think that we have mind memes that dictate and play a large part in our view of what "enlightment" means...

in other words, I think that god likes a brandy/coffee now n then! get my drift/?? Sin IS ignorance & nothing more.

lol

Re: Syphoning
 

Well, as Underhill would say, The psychic gets, the Mystic gives.

What I said is that we all have met people who have a specific amount of spiritual powers / spiritual weath. They may be able to manifest all kinds of things for themselves. Doesn't unequivocally mean that those people are any closer to Goddess/God.

Re: Syphoning
 

Jeeze, she makes it sound almost sinister. She sounds like she has a beef.

Bronte also says, "Our personal energy signature – the soul or ego, individual self– that which makes us creative, original, reasoned, deliberate beings of action – that is taken from us. Or more precisely, we give it away."

Makes me think that she sounds like someone who spent "17 years of her life teaching (Eastern) meditation" and never did have her own enlightenment experience. Although she calls herself a 'New Age Heretic' she points out that her favorite books are ones on manifestation. Hm.

Pretty true, though, that most of those who 'assimilate' are willing to give it away. (Some find themselves in the Void not by their choice, but by the choice of something much Bigger than they. The true "Void" being, itself a Stargate to the Divine - a 'place' exceedingly, extremely RARE to find oneself.) Maybe, as one could infer, she tried for 17 years to "give it away" and no-One came along to receive her. I wonder what she would've written if, during that 17 yr. period, something HAD come along and ultimately received her? Ah, perhaps there's the beef?

A war doesn't need to exist between the manifestors like Baxter - and the ones who manifest but also contemplate other possibilities beyond their own mind - beyond the personal - and into the Transpersonal. The ones that choose to explore the Transpersonal need not feel foolish for trying.

She also says, "Brahman is that consciousness that feeds and depends on physical matter, creating and devouring it at will, as humans breed then slaughter animals on a farm for food. When meditators have cosmic visions of themselves as all the universe, this is the consciousness they identify with. By uniting with and surrendering to it as their Higher Self, they become possessed by the entities who have taken charge of (and perhaps created) the physical universe."

Eastern religion is filled with destructionist gods as well as other types. And even in Christianity - 'The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.' It's just life as we know it.

The entities that are in charge of the physical universe are not all destroyers. Perhaps they have engineered the human brain and heart reaction of the enlightenment experience. From all accounts of it though, the ones who had it didn't complain about the Union itself.

Re: Syphoning
 

Wow Sun-Toon'
You surely found an explosive quote there.
I am however also very weary of people that sound bitter and she sure does as Dakini already pointed out. However, I think she has a good point.
The difference to me is that I have no problem being part of a collective as long as I can make sure that I have my free will and can assess that there is never a single being that controls it all.

So, humbly, as you insist that ther IS an outside to all of this, I think her 'reasoning' your way out can't be it. If there is a catch with all the 'beyond mind' stuff then it is that it isn't actually 'beyond mind'.
This is to say that it's still in the HMS/GSSC or whatever you want to call it.

I had an interesting talk with Mudra about this yesterday. The question is of course whether one should put priority into preventing syphoning/leakage or gaining more energy.
This is also an issue that comes up regarding the Nexus thread... is there a point putting more 'energy' into the grid if it's already corrupted? Can one really mark the energy with an intent that isolates it from abuse?

Be that as it may, one of the main questions to me is still 'Where does energy come from?" because formerly I believed all energy is First Source (some call it spiritual others soul, my there is no model for this sh**) in nature, now I'm not so sure. It would be rather logical to think that energy just exists within the HMS and whatever is outside of it, simply has nothing to do with it.

And yes, if that is so, probably none of us has a f****** clue what it is.
How frustrating.

The longer I think about this the more I have to hand it to James from WingMakers. His terminology makes more sense than anything else I've seen so far.
For that matter, has anybody investigated the event temples? Is there syphoning/assimilation (protection) there?

Last but not least, can there be group efforts that, as pointed out before, do not submit themselves to a higher institution? Is Gaia Brahman?

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Hmmm...Dakini, the quote you attributed to Bronte Baxter was me, but I was echoing her sentiments. There's no question that entertaining ideas like hers involves a great expansion of consciousness. The thoughtform that we may be food for the gods (whatever their persuasion), and also that perhaps everything we think is real...from hell all the way up through and including heaven, could be a part of the same elaborate prison, requires courage just to be allowed to blossom within our hearts and minds. But, if it's true, what would be wrong with being...not necessarily angry, but in treating the situation as a warrior would. This is how I see Bronte Baxter, as a fierce warrior.

She understands exactly the method in which she was seduced into giving away her energy to Hindu gods. She knows the routine inside and out and down to the minutia of it. These are details we all need to understand in order to reclaim our sovereignty. Some of us have built in alarms which would never allow us to become so entrapped within a paradigm as she was, but as we smugly declare this fact, we're just as vulnerable in other ways.

It's curious how this thread has evolved, beginning with such a simple question about how energy is siphoned. It was obvious that we all intuitively understand that this can occur by sexual means, through the great build up and release of sexual energy. It's clear that no one really appreciates giving it up, it's the bank account of our personal magical kingdoms, and even though we seem to collect a stipend every time we pass "Go", we still don't like paying rent for our very existence.

No one want so to be siphoned by sexual partners, inorganic creatures or by astral beings manipulating our consciousness. We understand when we've given our essence to the dark overloads who control the physical and astral realms, and we don't like it. We want to move our energy into more enlightening vibrations. But, what if those are apart of the cage as well? If the "good" gods are just as needy as the dark ones...because none of them are the prime creator, none of them are the One, then they're all just fractal iterations of it, just exactly as we are. If this is true, there is more. There is an "outside".

It really is like waking up inside a dream inside a dream. Just within this thread we've done this. What if we're apart of the Brahman's energy farm, and not only being seduced into feeding him, but into giving ourselves away completely...sold on the idea that this is the goal, the goal of assimilation? Do we have the right to be a little pissy about that?

I don't see such a great difference between Bronte and the Wingmaker's paradigm, in fact it seems to me that Bronte is held by fewer restraints than James...perhaps he owes more to his sources than she does. But they're both telling us that it's the same system, all the way to the top, a bubble in the fabric of reality that is not the All it appears to be.

Maybe there's always a war between the personal self and the transpersonal, and perhaps we find victory by finding balance. What is evil besides an expansion of the self until it becomes the whole of Being -- absolute evil is absolute service to self. At the other extreme is the death of the ego, the loss of all that is personal and unique by being re-absorbed into the formless patterns of reality...or so we've been sold. Or, maybe we're just kibble for Brahma.

Why would either of these extremes be the intent of a prime creator who seems to have turned us loose, endowed with the power to co-create realities within eternity? Eternity requires the ongoing invention of novel experiences for consciousnesses to reside there without succumbing to entropy. How do would we serve that paradigm by spending thousands of lifetimes amassing experience, learning to become adept co-creators ourselves, and then merging our uniquely beautiful consciousnesses with the bloated overloads of the status quo?

Re: Syphoning
 

Hi Czyrma... Put my toe in a couple weeks back when life shanghied me again but i've been reading along enjoying this one. Your questions arise from deep within and aside from some of the very insightful replies, you as often answer them yourself by your own similarly inscrutable contemplations.

From where i sit, Dakini seems to have simplified her gnosis and finds (for others) the appropriate words to express. Some others, while equally touching the hem of reality, as often tear it asunder, so to speak. This quote for example was written by Sun-Toon not Bronte:

The sentiment expressed here accords with Bronte's but is based on a misunderstanding of 'merging with the higher-Self or Oneness'. They're hearing alarm bells ring because 'union' seems to them an abrogation of freewill and individuality and this precisely because of their belief in some of the tenets of Kyle Griffiths' cosmology.

As i see it, those ideas, though valid as a description of lower order entities - we don't want 'union' with them - are utterly false when considering 'union' with the Divine. And by 'Divine' i mean the spiritual origin of one's own being NOT some inexpressible 'void' created by cosmic parasites. The soul is the 'child' of the spiritual- Self. It is individual and sovereign and it's projection into matter is by agreement with the spiritual-Self. A soul is part of that greater being yet is free to choose the guiding Will of spirit (and thereby recieve the greater intelligence and empowerment of co-creativity with that greater being) or to forge an outer identity based on personal standards of relative good and evil. One leads to higher levels of self-realisation and the other to deeper levels of estrangement and ignor-ance of source.

With this perspective, there is indeed "an outside" to the box of fear and suspicion which causes souls to seek 'safety' by rejecting the gems of wisdom handed on from the mystics who've gone before us.

Syphoning does not go "all the way to the top". It is done by rogues who can only syphon souls who are vulnerable to it and that means those who have not found union with the (vibrational) "top" of their own being. The first liberating thought is that this is in fact possible and further that it is mandated by the Divine as a natural completion of the aeonic sojourn. It cannot happen without acceptance of the inner-Guide... The one that whispers questions through the window of inner-consciousness and answers from the same place... I AM.

Ah Czymra, you do it often.

Re: Syphoning
 

I'll excuse your judgment of my "misunderstanding" of this concept. Perhaps if you were clearer on what Bronte Baxter has to say on the subject you'd understand why the alarms are going off...and the question is not one that can stay contained within Kyle Griffith's cosmology, though I'd say that it is somewhat related. IMO, we're being deceived by lower order entities, and higher order entities as well. When beings represent themselves as the Divine, play the hand of the Divine, look, walk and act like the Divine Duck, it's easy to be confused by those appearances.

And I see it as a question of how to tell the One from the Divine impostors. If God is not God, but a usurper, and we return to Him, to what have we returned?

You seem to have missed the whole point here. Of course there's an outside to the "box of fear", but there's also an outside to the box of love and bliss. It's a strange comment you make about seeking safety by the rejection of mystical gems of wisdom. Is that what we're doing here? From the safety of those very gems you find the objective point of view in which to make this pronouncement?

And yet you would use the term "I AM", a poisoned and tainted call to join the astral circus...one that's been used and abused by wraiths through hundreds of channels like the Ballards (I AM/St Germain movement) and Mark and Elizabeth Prophet...not to mention its source from the biblical overlord Yahweh, the prime example of the non-prime creator. I'm not sure, but I see your paradigm as exactly the one I'd like to escape. Alignment with these kinds of phrases as well as most, if not all of the ancient archetypes, can do nothing but draw us deeper into the dream the false reality that has been created to entrap our consciousness.

The second one of my alarms that goes off is over your assertion of what is the meaning and nature of the "natural completion of the aeonic sojourn". Mine, as I've seen it for some time, has no meaningful completion. There's no direction, no need to "return", only a drive to reclaim power and reopen the connection to source consciousness. It's the whole idea of this "mandated" completion which is the lie we've been falling for.
There's no "rejection" of wisdom going on here, only a calling into question of what wisdom is actually wise. Which mystics made it out? Who reopened the connection to source consciousness without returning to formless bliss? And if we weren't trapped in these cycles of hell, we'd be much more interested in the act of Being co-creators, without a need to get the hell out of here and return to anything.

When I said that siphoning goes all the way to the top, I meant that, but by implication, throughout the rest of what I've written, that the top is not the top.

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Windows auto updated and restarted the computer while writing my post and when it rebooted it left only fragments posted. I've deleted it all and will return to Sun-Toon's post later.

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For the record, I know where Baxter left off and you began - I just forgot to put quotation marks around her words. I've come across her before on the internet.

My concern for Baxter is that her words feel less 'expansive' and more constricting. And constriction = anger = fear at its base.

I will come back to your insights later today.

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Ah, Milk and Honey, I did wonder where you were.
Now we're just missing Josefine huh?

The battle has begun. This time though I don't feel like being a bystander since I opened this thread and I'll try to make sure we don't fall into semantics or personal sh*te like I've sadly seen it on other thread and forums.

Let me just pick up some minor bits and pieces that do the trick for me.

Milk and Honey, I'd love to believe that I can actually separate the wheat from the chaff but from my vantage point doing so would be utterly foolish.

Yes indeed, it feels to me as if the 'mission on earth' is a nice 'all is fine' sedative for all the ones that threaten the system to break down because there's too much banging on the prison walls.

I think we're all agreeing on this one, it's just semantics.... dude the terms for all this are all over the place. To one the 'spirit' is the 'source' and to the other 'spirit' is just hocus pocus, is emotion a part of the illusion or is it divine?
Man man....

I agree with this, as well. I think Baxter is onto something but she has a growl in her writing.

Forgive me for bringing so little of tangible argument to the table but as things work for me, they usually run through the system for a while and I get a sensation of 'go' or 'don't go'. I certainly won't spend this life with reading all there is to read... so this is the best I can come up with.

I may not be as persistent as sun-toon' when it comes to the rejection of all old means, but I must admit that after long periods of introspection, every time I return to this attitude.
There's just too much BS out there.

Re: Syphoning
 

Once again I find support for my hypothesis that the true nature of evil has been coded into Windows. I hope you'll eventually repost milk and honey...I apologize if I reacted strongly to your post, but you pushed my buttons when I couldn't find a way of reading it that didn't seem condescending.

I don't really think we're all agreeing on this, though it appears that at least you and I are.

I hear the growl, but not constriction. All this peace, light and love stuff we're constantly exposed to in the name of higher consciousness tends to cloud the concept that we just might need to be warriors...perhaps of a different sort than has been in the mix before, but warriors nonetheless. If you look further into her writing the issue of fear is addressed, as well as a lot on the law of attraction, and how she believes we can manifest reality through personal empowerment.

Dakini, I don't think it's her fear you're seeing, but more likely your own. Please don't take me wrong, I see you as owning a very evolved consciousness, but I've been outside of the traditional spiritual paradigms for some time, and I do understand where fear would come from. I think it should be there. I've experienced it every time I expand, and almost every time I've been threatened with expansion. I've experienced it over this very issue, and at more than one level. Bronte hasn't brought that out of me, since I was mostly in her camp already, but it's built into the process, and the bursting of our bubbles of awareness would be much more dangerous without it. The idea that we should be beyond fear is BS. It's a tool for exploration and growth and a necessary one.

From Chapter 10 of Bronte Baxter's blog:
Her paradigm is about freedom and personal sovereignty...a different connection to the divine than the Oneness doctrines of Eastern mysticism or new age hyperbole. It's a warrior's path, and I have to say I like it.
I'm not totally on the same page with everything she has say. There are intuitions which she accepts that I never would unless I had them myself. Avoiding assumptions is always good policy IMO. Overall however, this seems as expansive as Wingmakers, actually quite similar, though from a completely different angle and with less drama.

I think it's safe to start with the premise that something is very, very wrong here on planet earth and with the direction of the evolution of consciousness of its principle freewill species. The "old means" was fine back before we were on the brink of global annihilation. There was plenty of time to sit in caves or monasteries and contemplate the nature of Being. I'm sure it seemed to those mystics that there was time for everything...another thousand lifetimes perhaps, and who cared if they were being siphoned, if it was the Way.

It's clear that this is no longer the case. We're on the cusp of something profound, and at the least this is a gigantic opportunity for the discovery of the true nature of our selves. The idea that such a discovery might include the knowledge that there is a matrix here on the physical plane (indisputable at this point), and that it's an extension of an astral plane matrix, which is an iteration of what the mystics believed was the whole of existence, and that the Whole is an iteration of...the Real Universe...
Is this really such a stretch?
(OK it is, give it time to integrate...I have a feeling that there's much more stretching to come.)

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Maybe I'm notactually getting what you're trying to say but I don't think it's a stretch at all. Maybe I'm blessed by being young in this life and have been brought up in a complete disorder of post-modernity.

I don't think it's my point to drive this conversation further at this point, so I'll wait for windows to stop throwing his fit and see what good milk and honey brings in.

However, I do like to say that I fully agree with the concept of the warrior.
Yes indeed, it's not the killing machine we're all told it is, as little as the true path can be a matter of only love and light. Rather, I think we're being drawn into the extremes of yet another balance issue.
I wonder if Paulo Coelho's "The Warrior of Light's Handbook" has been corrupted.... or rather... how much...

Nothing has been more true in my experience than the concept of love and strictness combined.... it may be a thing path but it's the one of a clear conscience..

Re: Syphoning
 

One more thing actually, regarding the warrior perception and integrating the dark... there are some amazing posts toward this (current) end of this thread:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=11773

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Apologies for disappearing again. I'll be another few days in exile but will return to this thread. Cheers.

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Tend to agree that in the process of all the kicking up of dust - the talk all over the place of one's expansion or how to do it, or best things to focus on etc., etc., it is all diversion - it can cloud the inevitable of just plain doing the Work. Well, I'm OT>
Ok - yes, And warriors have always been needed; we each have our place in the Scheme. Even Joan of Arc, mythical Athena - warriors. Some fight with swords, some with minds, some with other mechanisms.

Well, I totally agree that fear presents itself for the ones who are choosing to participate in active expansion. And because of that factor, one must be courageous in its face if one is to progress. So have I felt fear? Abso - fricking - lutely. I'm glad you brought this up!
Here is something I keep bookmarked from "Will and Spirit" by Gerald G. May to remind me...

"The 'knowing' of divine love occurs only in the atmosphere of 'unknowing.' The conclusion that must be drawn here is that spiritual seekers are in a no-win situation with regard to fear. I think this is totally accurate. There is no way to avoid fear, GREAT fear, in the course of spiritual growth. The only saving quality is that in an atmosphere of willingness the experiences of love and fear come together. Where terror is encourntered, the sense of divine love is always available. If it were not for this, our spiritual journeys would invariably be short-lived and abortive."

Time was not the essential thing to them - Divine Union was the thing; and they made great sacrifices for it; throughout history the greats were killed when they spoke out about visions, worked miracles, etc. Is it any wonder that gifted people today stay silent, make up screen names, and don't show their faces when they express their intuitions or visions? True, we live in a different time, and will we ever have many Mystics of this ilk on the face of the earth again? It is very rare, and so a new paradigm is emerging and within that, the new consciousness is evolving. We know this. It is supposed to be so.

But I would interject that even in this new Earth time, there are still some mystics here, who have not particularly elected to 'sit in caves or monasteries and contemplate the nature of Being,' but have found themselves instead chosen by something Bigger, and have in fact been taken out of their ordinary lives by its power, have spent much time in an alternative, non-mainstream spiritual way of life that they would otherwise not have chosen because of its sacrifices.

No stretch. Some are beyond this cusp; the Matrix - you may have in fact seen it, felt it, tasted it already...

Let's be done discussing Baxter - she can and all of us can manifest away; those techniques are ancient and for reasons are being dug up again.
Sometimes I think manifestation itself is needed so humans can see the potential of what our small minds can deliver.